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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:07 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Yes disposal generally and kicking for goal killing us over the last 7 weeks
Other issues but predominantly thats the problem
Would not have won every game of the past7 but fix those 2 things up by say 15-20 percent we win 3 out of 7 and be in the 8


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1329
bluehammer wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
But what about Wallsy's?


What about them?


Article you posted had nothing to do with parkin :lol:

So I think you meant walls...


Woops - thanks - now fixed :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6359
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
But what about Wallsy's?


What about them?


Article you posted had nothing to do with parkin :lol:

So I think you meant walls...


Woops - thanks - now fixed :)

Good on Walls.
We need more Ex Carlton players and coaches doing the same.
Stop the rot.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:26 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
DocSherrin III wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
About the only good thing Voss has done is he has ripped the band aid off the clubs nepotism


Did you conveniently forget the list manager's surname? No chance he'd be there without being Curly's son.


Absolutely none!!!

Add his relationship with Cain Liddle :banghead:

Most of his experience was as an Opposition Analyst and Recruitment Officer, which is very obvious!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
If we start to get pumped, he will go, because you can't lose the players.

If the effort is still there (for 75% of games at least!) and we continue to lose games by 20-30 points then he will get to coach next year, and really that is enough time for him to try and make amends.

If he doesn't fix shit by mid 2024 he will be shown the door.

At the end of the day, the buck stops with the coach.
Yeah he might get a reprieve and they may sack some assistant coaches, but I laugh when people say things like 'goal kicking is not his responsibility, that rests with the forwards coach'. Because tell me then what is the head coach's role/responsibility? It was widely reported when we were on the hunt for the next coach that game plan only made up around 10% of the criteria (which amazes me by the way, I mean tell me McRae's game style isn't the no.1 thing that has Collingwood at the top of the table and premiership favourites). If it isn't goal kicking (and by extension how the defenders play and how the mids play and clearances etc and if game plan isn't that important) then what the hell does the Carlton head coach do? Are they merely paid big bucks to do pressers and say stuff like 'we will go to work on that'?
If you ask me, Voss is the conductor of the orchestra. If the line coaches aren't doing their jobs well enough he needs to stop the music and tell them to pull their fingers out. If the game plan has been worked out by other teams and our game plan doesn't work as a result then he needs to be proactive and find a Plan B. If Harry isn't kicking well then he needs to talk to the forwards coach and Harry and say 'guys fkn fix it!'.
Make no mistake he is ultimately responsible. If Harry continues to kick poorly because as Stevie J said the other night his body is at the wrong angle when lining up for goal, then surely Voss should take ultimate responsibility for this for letting things be so wrong for so long. If I was Voss I'd be all over the Harry issue and every week asking why the fkc the problem hasn't been fixed yet. Because ultimately his arse will be on the line, not just the forwards coach.
And it is in this respect that I do lay the blame at his feet, because EVERYTHING seems to have gone wrong. The ball movement from defense. The midfield not dominating like early last year. The forwards not kicking goals. The mids not kicking goals. Cripps playing terribly. Harry's kicking issues dragging on for so long. Every player except for Cerra playing below their best.
EVERYTING (except Cerra) has gone wrong Michael. So fkn fix it !!


There is a famous saying when players struggle to adapt at big clubs: “The shirt was too heavy”.

I agree, ultimately the coach is responsible.
I'm not concerned about what some say regarding percentages (10% Game Plan), because the coaches role is all encompassing: to manage coaches, players, support staff, and address the issues, and most important of all, a people manager with good knowledge of his game.

Carlton fans are known for their passion, for their loyalty, for their attenedance. If you look at the way some Carlton spectators eat their own after a loss, its no wonder they are feeling low, not just with confidence but self esteem. Hence they love playing for a big club but may not be equipped to wear the weight of the shirt that comes with it.

I think that Vossy is a great motivator.
I think Vossy does pick up the pieces on Monday mornings to bring an air of confidence in players who had a bad game.

I think we are still on a rebuild.
I think SOS stripped the list too hard
I think SOS picked too many of the same kind (inside mids), and failed with nearly all of them
I think SOS got a lot of them wrong as far as the character they need to play for a big club like Carlton.
I think Cook is the right guy to right the ship.
I'm hopeful Austin will balance out the list, but not in one year.

I think you're assuming that Vossy isnt talking to players about their flaws, and line coaches about their players.

I agree that Vossy and his TEAM have to fix it.
He can't shy away from that responsibility.
But its a big club, with big issues but we are in a better place to build a team for a success than when we got Judd to add to the 3 x No1 Draft picks.
The major pieces are there. The flawed players are being highlighted. The flaws in good players will be eradicated and sharpened.

This year is a failure, but it may just be the failure we needed.

My gripe with Vossy:
Vossy cant play favourites anymore, and he has to make positional changes when things aren't going right on the field.
He said it last week regarding Cripps "all players have dips in form, and Cripps is out of form". Then why allow Cripps to continue to get beaten in the midfield contest when we have Kennedy who is in good form? Vossy is learning about his troops. Hence, maybe its the year we needed.

"The recession we had to have"


You do know that this is Austin’s fourth year in the role?

And our cap is flowered?

And currently we’re bottom four?

And he gave Pittonet four years?

And including this year we have Young locked up for four years?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:46 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
Posts: 154
Club won’t admit it but club stuffed it up getting Voss they only wanted him and no one else had our chance to get a number of coaches if we needed a senior coach we had a choice of Lyon or Scott then had our chance to get in Kingsley or McRae who were the 2 mostly rated assistant coaches both had premiership success as assistants coaches but we went with the dumbest coach of all typical Carlton we deserve what we get till we move on from the 80 to the now we will never improve as a club


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:04 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4744
To be fair, McCrae was an unknown. If he had the lazy players we have, he probably wouldnt have done much either.

Problem is not the star players we have, as we have many. Curnow, McKay, Weitering, Cripps, Walsh. Any team with that calibre of stars with hard working foot soldiers will do well.

Unfortunately too little is left to few. We dont punish players who dont play well. We drop the usual scapegoats ie The Dows, Silvagnis , TDK, Young’s and the younger players.

And the Cripps, Ed Curnow, Weitering, Saad, McKays just stay and are given a pass just because of th names they are.

We are not enjoying our footy, looks like the world is on our shoulders. And are playing like it.

Like what the hell?

I would like us to chuck out this defensive mindset and just get ball, handball and run and have some flower fun.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:33 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Keithy wrote:
Club won’t admit it but club stuffed it up getting Voss they only wanted him and no one else had our chance to get a number of coaches if we needed a senior coach we had a choice of Lyon or Scott then had our chance to get in Kingsley or McRae who were the 2 mostly rated assistant coaches both had premiership success as assistants coaches but we went with the dumbest coach of all typical Carlton we deserve what we get till we move on from the 80 to the now we will never improve as a club

McRae was appointed to Collingwood before Teague got the flick

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:03 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6359
jezzarules wrote:

Thanks jezza, good point from Murph.
He also should've said that the stoppage game is mainly a defensive set up.
We have lost our run and attack from our stoppages in the aim to try and stop the leaking out the back of easy goals.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:24 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
jezzarules wrote:
Keithy wrote:
Club won’t admit it but club stuffed it up getting Voss they only wanted him and no one else had our chance to get a number of coaches if we needed a senior coach we had a choice of Lyon or Scott then had our chance to get in Kingsley or McRae who were the 2 mostly rated assistant coaches both had premiership success as assistants coaches but we went with the dumbest coach of all typical Carlton we deserve what we get till we move on from the 80 to the now we will never improve as a club

McRae was appointed to Collingwood before Teague got the flick


True but we didn't give ourselves the option at least cos we were so slow at making the decision to get rid of Teague.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:32 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Well coached today

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:39 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Coaching looked fine today from where I sat!

GO BLUES!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
jezzarules wrote:
Well coached today


I thought there had been a change over the last two rounds but didn't come off. Today we broke through


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Posts: 5829
FarmerBlue wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
Well coached today


I thought there had been a change over the last two rounds but didn't come off. Today we broke through

More than two rounds we've been trying to move the ball faster but the execution has let ourselves down

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
jezzarules wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
Well coached today


I thought there had been a change over the last two rounds but didn't come off. Today we broke through

More than two rounds we've been trying to move the ball faster but the execution has let ourselves down


All changed at quarter time, coz that 1st qtr was hard to work out if we ....well we were still stodgy

Something clicked.
Im not sure, but I thought I must have heard the word "Giddy up", coz they did in that 2nd.

Like last year. One Qtr of devastation and 4 points.
I loved the first 10 rounds of 2022.
Just last week on TC we were hoping for a glimpse of that period again, to prove we had it in us, and we got it today babeee!
Thanks for the reminder blueboys.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:09 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24665
Location: Bondi Beach
ColourMan wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
If we start to get pumped, he will go, because you can't lose the players.

If the effort is still there (for 75% of games at least!) and we continue to lose games by 20-30 points then he will get to coach next year, and really that is enough time for him to try and make amends.

If he doesn't fix shit by mid 2024 he will be shown the door.

At the end of the day, the buck stops with the coach.
Yeah he might get a reprieve and they may sack some assistant coaches, but I laugh when people say things like 'goal kicking is not his responsibility, that rests with the forwards coach'. Because tell me then what is the head coach's role/responsibility? It was widely reported when we were on the hunt for the next coach that game plan only made up around 10% of the criteria (which amazes me by the way, I mean tell me McRae's game style isn't the no.1 thing that has Collingwood at the top of the table and premiership favourites). If it isn't goal kicking (and by extension how the defenders play and how the mids play and clearances etc and if game plan isn't that important) then what the hell does the Carlton head coach do? Are they merely paid big bucks to do pressers and say stuff like 'we will go to work on that'?
If you ask me, Voss is the conductor of the orchestra. If the line coaches aren't doing their jobs well enough he needs to stop the music and tell them to pull their fingers out. If the game plan has been worked out by other teams and our game plan doesn't work as a result then he needs to be proactive and find a Plan B. If Harry isn't kicking well then he needs to talk to the forwards coach and Harry and say 'guys fkn fix it!'.
Make no mistake he is ultimately responsible. If Harry continues to kick poorly because as Stevie J said the other night his body is at the wrong angle when lining up for goal, then surely Voss should take ultimate responsibility for this for letting things be so wrong for so long. If I was Voss I'd be all over the Harry issue and every week asking why the fkc the problem hasn't been fixed yet. Because ultimately his arse will be on the line, not just the forwards coach.
And it is in this respect that I do lay the blame at his feet, because EVERYTHING seems to have gone wrong. The ball movement from defense. The midfield not dominating like early last year. The forwards not kicking goals. The mids not kicking goals. Cripps playing terribly. Harry's kicking issues dragging on for so long. Every player except for Cerra playing below their best.
EVERYTING (except Cerra) has gone wrong Michael. So fkn fix it !!


There is a famous saying when players struggle to adapt at big clubs: “The shirt was too heavy”.

I agree, ultimately the coach is responsible.
I'm not concerned about what some say regarding percentages (10% Game Plan), because the coaches role is all encompassing: to manage coaches, players, support staff, and address the issues, and most important of all, a people manager with good knowledge of his game.

Carlton fans are known for their passion, for their loyalty, for their attenedance. If you look at the way some Carlton spectators eat their own after a loss, its no wonder they are feeling low, not just with confidence but self esteem. Hence they love playing for a big club but may not be equipped to wear the weight of the shirt that comes with it.

I think that Vossy is a great motivator.
I think Vossy does pick up the pieces on Monday mornings to bring an air of confidence in players who had a bad game.

I think we are still on a rebuild.
I think SOS stripped the list too hard
I think SOS picked too many of the same kind (inside mids), and failed with nearly all of them
I think SOS got a lot of them wrong as far as the character they need to play for a big club like Carlton.
I think Cook is the right guy to right the ship.
I'm hopeful Austin will balance out the list, but not in one year.

I think you're assuming that Vossy isnt talking to players about their flaws, and line coaches about their players.

I agree that Vossy and his TEAM have to fix it.
He can't shy away from that responsibility.
But its a big club, with big issues but we are in a better place to build a team for a success than when we got Judd to add to the 3 x No1 Draft picks.
The major pieces are there. The flawed players are being highlighted. The flaws in good players will be eradicated and sharpened.

This year is a failure, but it may just be the failure we needed.

My gripe with Vossy:
Vossy cant play favourites anymore, and he has to make positional changes when things aren't going right on the field.
He said it last week regarding Cripps "all players have dips in form, and Cripps is out of form". Then why allow Cripps to continue to get beaten in the midfield contest when we have Kennedy who is in good form? Vossy is learning about his troops. Hence, maybe its the year we needed.

"The recession we had to have"


You do know that this is Austin’s fourth year in the role?

And our cap is flowered?

And currently we’re bottom four?

And he gave Pittonet four years?

And including this year we have Young locked up for four years?


I realise that.
We are where we are and its one year at a time from here.
We are not totally fkd if we dont plug all our gaps this draft/trade period, that's understandable. That's all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:40 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 9354
This'll get interesting...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-m ... 5djg9.html

"Damien Hardwick has said he will likely return to coaching, just weeks after his shock decision to leave the Tigers, but said he needed more time before he signed on with another club."

“I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t see myself doing it,” Hardwick told the Dyl and Friends podcast, published on Monday. “I miss it ... At some stage, I’ll probably step back in. When that is, I’m not too sure.”

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2812
robertbb wrote:
This'll get interesting...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-m ... 5djg9.html

"Damien Hardwick has said he will likely return to coaching, just weeks after his shock decision to leave the Tigers, but said he needed more time before he signed on with another club."

“I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t see myself doing it,” Hardwick told the Dyl and Friends podcast, published on Monday. “I miss it ... At some stage, I’ll probably step back in. When that is, I’m not too sure.”


About round 8 next year when, despite being given new assistants, Voss still has us sitting bottom 4


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:06 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm
Posts: 5829
DesEnglish wrote:
robertbb wrote:
This'll get interesting...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-m ... 5djg9.html

"Damien Hardwick has said he will likely return to coaching, just weeks after his shock decision to leave the Tigers, but said he needed more time before he signed on with another club."

“I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t see myself doing it,” Hardwick told the Dyl and Friends podcast, published on Monday. “I miss it ... At some stage, I’ll probably step back in. When that is, I’m not too sure.”


About round 8 next year when, despite being given new assistants, Voss still has us sitting bottom 4

West Coast and (potentially) GC to resolve in the meantime.
Also Norf.

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