Exactly

I bet he's valued by the scribes at least as a B+, if not A grader by the end of the year.
He has been consistent every game this year in a shit show, without cohesion.
Fantastic skills. Played injured last year a fair bit, because of our injury list (and Vossy wouldn't play Dow)

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

100%.

Keogh makes great points for discussion, but too much of what I highlighted, and not backing down when he is out of order.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

And let's not forget, there's plenty of talk about Rozee and Butters stepping up into Ports "young" midfield.
Cerra is only 3 months older than Rozee and is turning out comparable numbers to both with very little support. Yet for whatever reason, we have Carlton supporters spending their time degrading our players and actively looking for deficiencies or even worse, making them up.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Last year when we were flying Cerra was our fourth best mid
Cripps Walsh Hewett were ahead of him
Since then all three have dropped off
Cerra has stepped up. He was soft at Freo
I can only think of 2 players who have got better on our list
Newman and Cerra
Good on Cerra
Cerra is a very good footballer
Well rounded solid
But he ain’t a A grader
Why
Well you can quote as much stats as you like
Stats don’t fully tell you the full impact a player has on a game
He lacks explosiveness
Did any of you guys watch last nights game
Rozee, Butters Horne-Francis have X factor whether it’s pace off the mark or power
Cerra doesn’t have that

As far as having an opinion I am entitled to have one
As for the McGovern it’s been a @#$%&! disaster
Tell me why otherwise
Martin and Williams are lazy footballers who haven’t worked hard enough when they have played

Last night was the best game I’ve seen this year
We are miles off what Port delivered
Quick ball movement
Manic pressure
Guys who can kick the ball with penetration
Hasn’t happened overnight but the potential was there
The building blocks came from the draft
And many picks not in the top 10
Guys like Finlayson are cream on the cake

If you get guys like McGovern Martin and Williams when all you’ve got is unstable slab the issue is compounded

If you don’t watch the better teams objectively without bias do yourself a favor
Grab a glass of red and watch
You might learn something

Cerra has been outstanding this year.

Anyhow, what we need is ...

A quality, genuinely tall, strong tall defender who is hard at the contest

Another top quality mid who is not slow

A quality small/medium forward

This is how I would do it...

Get Ben McKay via FA
Let TDK go and use the pick for him to get Gresham
I would use Pick 4 on the best available mid who is not slow. I would not trade that pick for 2 picks.
I would not trade our future first as I simply believe you should always have a first rounder every year.
I would consider keeping Fisher and play him as a defender. But only if he can show he can perform that role for the remainder of the year without being soft at the contest, and if the club think we can play both Saad and Fisher down back at the same time. Perhaps Fisher plays as a defensive wingman.
I would only play 2 big bodied slow mids at a time.
I would trade Jack Silvagni and use the pick we get on an experienced ruckman. A moneyball move.
I would give Durdin and Motlop another year to get it together. Even though he is slow I would keep Owies at the club cause he is a little battler and a proven survivor who knows how to find a goal.
I would play Kemp as the 3rd forward, but he would be a utility who can play back or forward. I would play Cowan over Kemp in defense though as Kemp makes me a little nervous sometimes down there. Cowan on the other hand is a true hard head.
I would give Doc and Cripps another go. Like the coach Voss, 2024 could be there last year at the club.
Acres also gets another go.
I would get Stevie J down to the club to teach Harry how to kick a football.
I would get a new head of football.
I would get an assistant coach who knows about modern football game styles and make him 2IC.

2024 team

B Saad B.McKay Cowan
HB Docherty Weitering Newman
C Hollands Cripps Acres
R Pittonet Cerra Walsh
HF Durdin C.Curnow Motlop
F Gresham H.Mckay Kemp

BENCH : Pick 4 (Gun Mid), Fisher, Binns, Cincotta
EMERG : Carroll, Boyd, Cottrell, Mirkov, Owies, Kennedy

QN MARKS : Honey, Fogarty

I have not included any of the famously flaky five of Williams, Marchbank, Martin, Cuningham and McGovern quite simply because I trust them as far as I can throw them which isn't very far.

I don't have Kennedy or Hewett in the side as the two slow mids I have are Cripps and Cerra. I would actually look to move Hewett on because he can't kick further than 35m.

I suspect Dow will not be at the club next year though personally I would lean towards keeping him.

I enjoy watching the other games.
Not emotionally invested.
I try and not be bias when judging Carlton and its players.

I think you're wrong about Cerra.
He wins the ball from the defensive side of the contest.
Rozee looks explosive when he receives the ball at front of the pack.
I saw what you saw last night.

Last year when Cerra was receiving the handball forward of the pack he too looked explosive there.
I dont think you judge with an open mind at all.
Cerra is not slow.

But you still found a way to degrade Cerra by comparing him with Rozee, conditionally (no stats allowed)
Gotta laugh at that keogh. That is purely driven by bias. If you cant see that, phone a friend.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think your barking up the wrong tree
Cerra is a solid footballer
Rozee Butters co have more impact
That’s my opinion
That’s not degrading Cerra at all

In regards to last night
Rozee pick 5
Butters pick12
Houston pick 45 rookie draft
Byrne-Jones pick 52
Marshall pick 16
Williams pick 8 rookie elevation
Powell-pepper pick 28
Drew pick 33
Farrell pick 52
Bergman pick14
Sinn pick 12 looked ok
That’s just under half the team who come up playing together as kids at Port
Different players in different positions
One top 10 pick amongst them
All played key roles last night
Bergman the exception
There is your building block right there
Don’t forget Duursma who I reckon is a gun and was pick 18

Georgiades pick 19
Lord pick 49 looks good
That have a lot of players from other clubs
That’s fine if your kids are recruited well
Recruiting Setterfield and McGovern at the time for 5 picks was the stupidest List Management decision ever although the Stocker trade comes close
C’mon convince me otherwise

2 requests Keogh

stop assuming only you watch other games
please list all the mistakes Port have made during the the same period as their highlighted successes (you know blokes like Watts, Rockliff, Trengrove,Lindsay Thomas, Tyson Goldsack etc- I mean being an ex teacher etc etc etc - you'd know that to look at one side's successes (but not errors) and another side's errors but not strengths is just a tad simplistic.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

A couple of posters on BF saying that WCE are keen on Fisher and also have their eye on Carroll.

,yes danny boy other clubs make mistakes ,but sos stuffed so many selections over the years ,you win flags with the bottom 6 players like p28 p33,p48 just hope Austin finds some gems.

How much do WCE have to give?

Yeah Port have made a lot of mistakes
All clubs do
Stephen Wells has had some shockers
But in a period of equalisation over the last 2 decades why are we so shit
One is we have had some shocking list managers
There is clearly an art to picking good kids
Of course all List Managers miss on some
But if they get more right than the real bad recruiters you are dead in
the water. After the board the most important person at a club is your List Manager
What’s the old saying
If you haven’t got any socks you can’t pull them up
So tell me this
Given SOS’ appalling record as a List Manager given all the freebies he had at his disposal at GWS why would you employ him as a List Manager
Because his name is synonymous with the club
Because he was the Full Back of the century
Because he is a good bullshit artist

The best thing about getting old besides not working is you can reflect
I’m sure in your teaching career you have asked yourself
How did he/she get that position
The most important person at a school after the Principal is the Daily Organizer
You know
The person who is first at the school except the cleaner making sure all classes are covered and the day runs smoothly
The school I taught at employed this bloke who couldn’t organise a fart in a bathtub
But he was a good bullshit artist in an interview

That’s how the world works sometimes

Make no mistake
Stephen Silvangi’s time as a List Manager at this club was semi- catastrophic
We are seeing the full implications of it now
What the football department at Carlton is doing now is playing and recruiting guys who can’t kick are slow hoping things get better
The fact that Blake Acres plays every week when clearly he is a liability
When Jack Martin gets a game and can only physically play a half
When Jaxon Binns and Cowan can’t get a game
Tells me the club thinks the List is ok
It ain’t
We need to start again
We have [REDACTED] up

Go back to Port
They have backed kids and guys who can kick the footy with penetration
They realize if you want to succeed you have to have a type of player
That’s whyFantasia and Jonas can’t get a game
That’s why they can give less significant roles to Boak and Wines
Port have learnt from the Watts years
Carlton never seem to
It’s the same old message
We are Carlton
We will be alright
The List needs a complete overall before Tassie gets in
I hope my answer wasn’t so complicated

Yeah, I watch plenty of other games too, it's hardly something to brag about. I dare say syd, Bondi and I have seen more of the Swans and Giants than just about anyone here. I reckon I can discuss the teams who play on Ch7 regularly with reasonable authority, and have little to contribute about the likes of WCE,GCS and NM who are rarely shown.

One thing you (keogh) keep telling us is that Martin is lazy, but those who go to the games tell us he works his arse off and does a lot of the things that don't make the stat sheet or are out of the TV frame. Would you at least concede that those at the ground have greater authority in this aspect of the game?

If that’s the case then is it a coaching instruction
Dumb play up the field
Or a complete load of shit. He is just overrated
Love to know from someone who is there every week

Anyone hear Kosh on SEN this morning? He said the biggest fix was getting the culture right in 2018 and having everyone pulling the same way from there. Also among some other things, mentioned how the 'word' rebuilt or reset will never belong at Port, just as it doesn't at other clubs like Geelong, Sydney, etc. We flowering never learn - that's the problem.

Port haven’t won the flag yet and there still is a long way to go
But at the moment there are 3 clear best teams
Collingwood
Port
Melbourne who are different as they rely more defence and structure

But they have been patient with the kids I mentioned above in a previous
Post
A good recruiting officer is the key in the first place
Give those kids time to build together
There will be peaks and troughs
Add some players with smart trades when ready
Winning makes everyone happy
Koschie sounds like he is a bit of wanker
Or he has learnt to be patient
Hasn’t he wanted to sack Uncle Fester half a dozen times

Binns - I think he is a good get but we wont know until he is tried - but he is small and young and has plenty of time - patience
Cowan did well, needed and got as rest, injured a fin ger, returned played some games and is picked again.
Hollands played until he busted his shoulder - so 3 very good gets from our list manager (who is not Sos so you know don't get caught in the past, look at the past, the here and now and the future.). All of them can run.
Cincotta - good get, good foot skills and can run.
Lemmey is an interested pick - could be a ripper of a pick or not - at least 2 years away probably from knowing.
OKeefe see above.

So instead of focusing on Acres - and even then he played some good games (as did this side) but like the side has fallen away - look at all the list additions from last year.
Like that draft year of Ports that happened 2/3 years ago(?) where they brought in 4 players that changed the list, who is to say we haven't done the same?

Actually this is the point - in 1 draft Port addressed needs and then 2 years later reaped the benefits. I think we are similar - rated the list but injuries and some personal are not what we need so we chose some "correctors" last year and if we are smart could do the same this year. Trade into the draft get 3 more good kids to add to the list and keep building - ist not all about the failures, its about the successes also.

I have seen Cowan and Holland live - like them both.

I have only seen Binns and the others on TV but I like what I have seen of them, especially Binns.

As for the personal "school" music etc, anecdotes, you do realize when arguing that personal anecdotes aren't worth the air it takes to voice them.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Acres is a turnover merchant
Is a liability
Why recruit him
Because O’Brien is not up to it and we need wingers
We need much more than wingers
Recruiting Acres and playing him doesn’t help Binns does it
I am not advocating playing Binns every week
But we should bring Binns in for Acres this week
He should of played now based on his form and the form of the Seniors
Surely you don’t disagree on that one Danny Boy
All for patience but being a second emergency on the weekend therefore not even playing a game in anger whilst a guy is handing out more turnovers than an Ackland St cake shop isn’t good for Binns or the development or the team

As for ancecdotes nothing wrong with using them to make a valid point
Hopefully the Saints will find out about it soon

anecdotes don't make a valid point, they support weak arguments, strong arguments do not need them.


Binns - you're guessing. I'd assume he was brought into the fold in his week off (as an emergency) to be with the team watch, imagine, strive that little bit more if he wants it so it could just what his development needs - truth is I do not know and neither do you because neither of us actually knows the kid. Actually they could even have thought "play Acres not Binns, better ruin the aging player who is a turnover merchant than a kid in his first game" - bring him in when the side has jelled a bit? Really who the @#$%&! knows.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!