Agree to disagree on Martin
As for McKay agree to disagree as well
The game continues to evolve
Not only do I watch Carlton games
I watch other games as well and see how other teams go
I wonder how many posters do that
Scoreboard pressure is not so much about having 2 power forwards
Have a look at the Coleman medal
Curnow
Larkey
Allen
All up there
How about their team
Cameron almost plays as a mid

The club need to be bold with List Management
The List is crap
That shows with the results going back a year
If you don’t make some hard calls players like Cripps and McKay won’t have the same currency

Go to YouTube
Type in Brisbane vs Carlton All goals and highlights
First Half round18
Then fast forward to 2.50 and see what I am talking about
Yes one isolated incident but some blokes like Kade Simpson ( this was his last game)never took a short step and had a little peep
It’s a tough game

There is not a player in the comp who maybe only once or twice has not had a quick peep over there shoulder . The toughest and bravest of them . So scroll back over the years and you will find hundreds of such incidents . Me , couldn't be bothered coz its the here and now i am interested in .

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All my dangerous friends

you mean people watch others games rather than just Carlton - slaps forehead, well I never...

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

More stories today speculating that Carlton interested in Jade Gresham

Not sure how I feel about that isnt he injury prone
Plays half forward and sometimes in the middle
Wouldnt come cheap
What do others think ?

It's realistically going to be him or Ben McKay.

Which means do we prefer:
- Hoping Martin stays fit and plays the role Gresham would have, while hoping McKay stays on the park for the entire season the first time so Weitering can play the third tall intercept role.
or hoping Gresham stays fit and we have some leverage over Martin at contract time, and we somehow make Weitering/Young/Kemp work instead.

Clearly they don’t
Even the so called experts thought we would be better
The game continues to evolve.
How many times have we heard we have two Coleman medalists and a Brownlow medallist
We should be better
Scroll back through the plethora of posts on this site that state this
Clearly people are clueless about modern football
It guarantees you nothing

I can’t remember once Kade Simpson taking a short step
Most players do at sometime of their careers but there are a handful that never. It’s in their D.N.A
not to.
You would think that given it was Simpson’s final game of what was it 300 and something Martin would of gone harder
That particular game was one hot footy
Bit different to a Gold Coast game a few years ago. Clearly Jack was In foreign territory and didn’t like it

The thing about Martin which is obvious is he hasn’t worked hard enough off the field.
Have a look at his body
He has great hands a terrific mark for his size but simply hasn’t been fit enough which is not entirely due to soft tissue injuries given the modern sports science on offer
He was rushed back way too early
And proof is in the pudding
Sub off during the second half

Injuries are part of footy but when he has been on the field he has failed to impose himself
Remember he was brought to the club to provide leg speed as a mid
When he has played midfield he has been below par. Is gassed too quickly and ain’t hard enough
Ditto Williams when he has been fit enough
In terms of List Management a monumental fail

Despite this I hope Martin can get himself as fit as possible over summer with one year to go on his contract.

Jade Gresham ain’t a mid
Another McGovern Martin flash in the pan

Keogh didnt say he was a mid said he was hff and ovcasionally goes in the middle a bit like fisher for our team
Im not advocating getting him
Please read posts before misrepresenting avoids things going off on tangents

What is the obsession about getting another flashy injury prone player from another club

The reason the club needs to get its house in order in terms of List Management is Tassie coming in.
We need to trade guys out and start a proper rebuild
It’s not the coach
It’s the List

Im not necessarily supportive but I think he has got skills in areas wd dont - dont have any hff except for Martin
Does kick goals we dont

Having said that injury prone

Maybe cost too much
Not a hard player either

it is the coach, and it is the list. we're too slow, we've invested too much into injury prone players that weren't/ aren't up to it.

it's also the fitness and conditioning. the development. the arrogant culture of the board living on what we've done, not what we're currently doing.

it's everything.


but voss cannot coach, that much is clear. it was clear in brisbane, and it is again clear here at carlton. we're an abysmal sight on the footy field of confusion and chaos and we've gone backwards. this same squad was 8-2, and missed finals by 0.6%. instinct has been coached out of them and replaced by flawed system.

If we wasn't a FA I wouldn't as we have limited picks

However, he does bring a lot of things we need. He has leg speed, goal sense and can do some midfield minutes. Only 25 so right age. Would fill that High HF role perfectly in our side and would work well under our talls

Question is injury concerns and would have to be right price. I wouldn't be paying over $500k a year for him. If it wasn't for Injuries a Forward line with Gresham Martin & Cuningham added to look very dangerous

I'd also be looking at James Jordan from Melbourne who is a FA. Young mid with some leg speed. Only 22

Another is Sam Flanders from GCS. 21 and wants to come back to Melbourne. Another HF/mid type. GCS want to swap their First Round pick as they have an Academy Kid that is rated Top 10. I'd trade a future first for Sam and this years first

I think we need to finally draw the line & not recruit anyone with dodgy injury history, or dodgy kicking skills.

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#DonTheStash

Injuries are coach killers

How much better would we be with a fit/in form Cuningham Martin Williams C.Durdin S.Durdin Philp Marchbank all available week in week out. Lots of run there and we have Hollands Cowan Binns Cincotta Boyd Motlop developing. All of who I expect to improve a lot in 2024

A good trade/draft period and things can turn very quickly

IMO our list isn't "bad"it just falls away quickly after the best 15-20 with what we have available each week

No , sorry , thats not what we were talking about . You questioned Martins courage . I"m saying he is every bit as courageous as most players in the comp . Its fair enough you question a lot of things about Martin but you called the bloke a squib which is utter frog shit . Like i said Suzz , just about every player at one time or another has squibbed it but it doesn't make them a squib . Totally out of order on that one .

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All my dangerous friends

Exactly - it is everything.

We essentially have holes in every department of this football club (some are much bigger than others) but we can see that on our day and in the right mindset we can beat anyone. It is everyone's responsibility to become a successful club, not just the players, not just the coach, not just the List Manager, just the the Board or administration. Which is why we need to have another full review at the end of the season and make the necessary changes to fix the known issues.

I don't want us to sack another coach, but if his position becomes untenable by the end of the season then so be it.

Keogh, I know you're basically a broken record and will likely never change, but you can't truly believe in your own narrative that it is ONLY the playing list that is the issue? Blowing up the list and starting over will be much, much worse than sacking the coach again. One thing I do agree with is that if we are going to make significant list changes to trade players that aren't up to it, now is the time. Clear the dead wood and put one or two big names on the table and see what bites we get.

We need to keep cool heads and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. A mini reset is all that is required and things can turn around pretty quickly.

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

please no To Jade gresham havent we F......n learned by recruiting name players NO more ,go to draft or find a youngster that is on borderline selection from good sides e.g jordan from melb