The players are in self preservation mode and the coach can’t instill enough confidence in them to get any fluidity in their game.

Voss should try something different, hand the game plan over to the leadership group and see what they come up with. At least if it’s theirs then you can hold them accountable to it.

Unless something changes Voss is a deadman walking

He has one job and that is to improve players and can’t even do that so if you can’t improve them time to move on

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"I said I'd tell you the truth. Didn't say you'd like it." - Finch

Any end of year review worth its weight will interview the leadership group. Cripps, Weitering and Walsh aren't idiots. They'll have a good sense as to why things have gone pear shaped. I wouldn't mind betting that they think Voss can actually coach. Not going to speak for them, but I reckon they'd want some sort of continuity. I don't think this is Teague 2.0. And these three have already seen what that shitshow is like.

If you want to put a bit of pressure on Vossy (not necessarily a bad thing), surround him with senior assistants you could see taking his job. At the moment Ash Hansen is the 2IC. That's ok - but the forward line hasn't excited me this season. Is Brendon Lade gettable after two years with the Bulldogs? Proven midfield coach who could provide some much needed ruck tutelage. Is Jaymie Graham ready to leave the comforts of Perth? Is Daniel Giansiracusa wanting out at the hangar? There's going to be change, but before you throw out the coach - how about give him the best possible chance of success? Of course this is heavily dependent on a football department soft cap that will only be increased to $7.2m in 2024, but still well short of the pre-COVID level of $9.2m. The club should make assistant coaching changes before the AFL instigates job security for them that their contract terms used to provide, but no longer do.

The most difficult appointment might be that Director of Coaching position that I believe Voss would benefit from. The trouble is getting someone who'd be experienced and respected enough to come in under budget. The likes of Brenton Sanderson are earning good coin from Director of Sport positions at schools where the fees alone are $40k per year. It's a cushy gig and it no doubt feeds the pocket, but does it feed the soul?

In a normal world, a club President might ask a Director of Football to come up with a bit of a loose plan for various 2024 coaching scenarios. In Carlton's world, the Director of Football is more suited to teaching the players how to handball than being a board member with this position.

cottrell 12 disposals, obrien 9 disposals, and the turnover king acres 18 disposals and god doesn't even know where.
This is where our run and inside fifty disposal should come from.
Dismal players, if voss cant see it or isn't willing to change get rid of him now because we are not going anywhere but down.
Pig head dead and blind doesn't scream a great teacher.

If players are in self-preservation mode, then they are not adhering to team rules

Drop them to the VFL. It really is that f%^&* simple

Anything else is just giving players an out, or giving them oxygen...sorry but desperate times call for desperate measures...we have made too many mistakes over the last 2 decades

players who do not play for the monogram, the history and their loyal fans are not worthy of that priceless list spot at the CFC

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Personally, I wouldn't trust Cripps as far as I could throw him. He has been there for 2 coach sackings and still a 3rd may be in the offing

His performances prior to those sackings (or current thin ice sacking) have been poor. I'll leave it at that

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

The call as to whether Voss coaches us next year is extremely complex and I see strong arguments on both sides. It’s a big call and ultimately has to be the right call after so many false starts with bad appointments, sackings etc. We’ve got another 11 games to go this year and I suspect given the downward spiral we are on that the pressure on Voss will rise week after week. The way we’re playing we will only win a couple more for the year unless something changes significantly.

At this stage, I’m still in the camp that we need to retain Voss for 2024 and let him see out his contract.

The players are as big of an issue as the coaching and these players have never been held account for their actions or inactions. Sacking another coach effectively absolves the players from responsibility / culpability for what is going wrong at this club. We’ve got key players way out of form and they need to step up for this club. If they are unwilling, move them on. We don’t play as a team, we play as a collection of individuals - there are minimal blocks, shepherds or other actions that benefit the team but not the individual. Tackling has been poor. Too many players coasting - happy to get their money but not hellbent on success. The list also needs some tweaking - not enough goal kicking options beyond Charlie and H. Midfield is too one paced and gets smashed on the spread. Players need to learn to deal with pressure and expectation.

However, with all that said, I’m not convinced Voss can coach. He lacks tactical nous. His 2023 game plan is way too defensive. We’ve only had 100 points kicked on us once this year (100 exactly vs Brisbane) so defensively we are ok but we cannot score. We can’t kick 10 goals in a game and our scores are tracking downwards rapidly. A lot of this is on coaching - a slow stodgy game plan, go backwards, go sideways, rarely use the corridor, go slow so the opposition can flood our forward 50. Tactics that don’t hold up in 2023. Tactics that suck the life out of the players and supporters. I never rate a coach on their first half a season as almost every coach across the league gets a new coach bump - Voss’ was 8-2 after 10 rounds. Since then we’ve played I believe 23 games for about 7-8 wins. We are 14th at the midway point of this year. That’s not good enough.

So how do we move forward with Voss? We need to install tactical nous around him via assistant coaches and here is the kicker Voss needs to show he can adapt and be flexible. He needs to admit that his overly defensive game plan isn’t working and change his method for 2024. I do query whether we can actually bring in tactical nous as which assistant would want to coach under Voss at Carlton (it’s a dead end job) but we’ve got to try. No way we can roll out these same assistants next year. The other bit of support Voss needs is a strong head of football which he doesn’t currently have. Someone who can tell him point blank that he needs to change or he will be finished.

As I said at the start of this rambling post, there are such strong arguments both ways for keeping or removing Voss. I’m still leaning towards putting it on the players to fix their issues by backing the coach and trying to beat support him via new assistants and head of football. Every other coach sacking has not worked so it is time to try the approach we never take.

I think I've changed over the years with this. I don't expect them to care about the history of the footy club. But they do have to have an insatiable appetite to win. When they interview a kid prior to the draft and ask the question "What do you hate more than anything?" - there can only be one acceptable answer. "Losing".

If their answer is 'the impoverished people of Western Sahara' or 'when you buy Allen's snakes and there's like one of your favorite color in the entire packet and the rest of the snakes are the crap colors' or '8 minute abs when 7 minute abs are where it's at' or 'when insta goes down' I don't want them. I want individuals who will give their everything to win.

Good read-especially agree with the highlighted bit

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

What about Don Pyke doc? Would he be good? (as long as we kept him away from pre season camps of course)

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#DonTheStash

Dunno. His job at the Swans is around strategy and opposition analysis.

Nah , can't agree with any of that . Assistants , tacticians , etc etc . Before you go into any of that you must know 100 % you have the right Coach . A true number one banana . When you have established that then you get the right help . Sorry , but for me the sole focus for the rest of the year is Voss and Voss alone . If he cuts the mustard then we go allout on getting the very BEST to surround him . And don't let any of our board members go near the process . Me , i would leave it to Doc , Bondi , Sue , Vain and Cazz . Reckon those hard arses would sort it .

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All my dangerous friends

then Hawthorn is interested!

This is so true, I was yelling at the TV to make,these plays, same as last week a the SCG. Sure they’ll stuff some up, but they’ll also get multiple gold and get the team thinking positively.

It is a big decision indeed. The decision over the coach.

The club will want to be seen to be doing what other clubs have done and back the coach in. Think Geelong with Thompson. Richmond with Hardwick. The list goes on.

But equally they can't do it for the sake of it.

They have to believe Voss can actually coach.

They simply have to get it right. Whichever way they go.

Forget Cripps. It's not about him anymore. I really think he won't win a flag at Carlton. He is a big slow midfielder who's copped a beating and a half. He will likely hit the wall early.

I don't know about Doc and Saad and these types. Can they carry on well into their 30s?

Rather it is now about the likes of Charlie and Harry and Weiters. Can we renovate the list in time? This is the issue IMO. Our KPPs. They don't grow on trees.

Id be looking to shake up the list big time at the end of the year. I'd be trying to get another early pick and then take 2 of the best young mids. We need a Rozee Butters type off season. Add 2 young midfield guns to Walsh and Cerra and Hollands and Binns and Carroll and then we try again in a couple years.

Also need a quality small forward.

But you get my drift.

Time for a quality, smart renovation.

I mentioned this elsewhere... Very obvious at the ground...
Tells me they have instructions that 'mentally' haven't locked in.
Obvious give... but they look around, or go for an option, slow down.... then go for the first obvious one, which is now covered and which ends up as a turnover...

Thus we're slow...
Thus we turn it over...
Thus we aren't connected, blockinv, running decoy etc

No sure if we are dumb, have a dumb game plan...or a bit of both
Either way, coaches have to fix it.....

And fixing it doesn't mean you keep battling on..
Leadership and coaching means you have to work out why people aren't 'getting it'... and work out a different way for them to 'get it'.... (often without them even realising)



Go Blues

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

What does Voss offer to the assistants in terms or leadership and direction. He’s the boss, if he offers them nothing then there is your answer

We tend to highlight the clubs that have backed their struggling coaches in and reaped rewards.

St kilda backed Ratten in then sacked him.

Richmond backed Wallace in. Spud got a good run too.

North stuck with Laidley for a long time without ultimate success.

Even Buckley got a massive run at it and ultimately fell short.

I don't mind what the club do but nothing is certain.

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Congratulations CK95

Exactly RB. Good wingers average 20+ disposals and elite disposals at that. When supporters keep raising how good these players are for us, I just want to spew up. We have fallen so far, that even supporters accept mediocrity.