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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 11:45 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6319
FarmerBlue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Our midfield is predominantly ball hunters
Walsh and Cerra are good runners both offensively and defensively but aren’t penetrating kicks
It seems to me that when we lose possession between the arcs the opposition move it easier than when we win possession
I would love to see Durdin play minutes in the middle
He has pace off the mark
Opposition teams sit on Saad because he is the only player who can penetrate with his kicking from defense
So play him further up the ground


Go watch the first 10 rounds last year. Wasn't an issue


The last 8 games Cripps has been held to under 20 possessions we have lost 7 of them
That’s a decent sample size and therefore a problem
Hewett was also on fire last year. Our best clearance player during the first half of last year
He hasn’t been as effective
Teams now play a big bodied mid on Cripps who can run
Dunkley
Steele
Dawson
Cripps is not a good ball carrier. Neither is Hewett
Other teams have worked out that if they can match up with us on the inside it’s pretty much game over

So it is a problem that hasn’t been resolved for over a year
Voss needs to change up the personnel to create more run
Durdin for one should play midfield minutes
Ditto Saad who teams now tag to stop his run
He needs a change of scenery
We may get away with the status quo this weekend but not against a top 4 team


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 12:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35649
Location: Half back flank
Kennedy coming in will ease the load on Cripps & Hewett.

Agree with you that we also need to add some run to the midfield

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 1:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
CK95 wrote:
Kennedy coming in will ease the load on Cripps & Hewett.

Agree with you that we also need to add some run to the midfield


As long as they don't play him at HB

Cripps Hewett Kennedy Walsh Cerra supported by Docherty Hollands Durdin Motlop Cottrell is balanced and talented and should be able to match it with anyone


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 3:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2698
keogh wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Our midfield is predominantly ball hunters
Walsh and Cerra are good runners both offensively and defensively but aren’t penetrating kicks
It seems to me that when we lose possession between the arcs the opposition move it easier than when we win possession
I would love to see Durdin play minutes in the middle
He has pace off the mark
Opposition teams sit on Saad because he is the only player who can penetrate with his kicking from defense
So play him further up the ground


Go watch the first 10 rounds last year. Wasn't an issue


The last 8 games Cripps has been held to under 20 possessions we have lost 7 of them
That’s a decent sample size and therefore a problem
Hewett was also on fire last year. Our best clearance player during the first half of last year
He hasn’t been as effective
Teams now play a big bodied mid on Cripps who can run
Dunkley
Steele
Dawson
Cripps is not a good ball carrier. Neither is Hewett
Other teams have worked out that if they can match up with us on the inside it’s pretty much game over

So it is a problem that hasn’t been resolved for over a year
Voss needs to change up the personnel to create more run
Durdin for one should play midfield minutes
Ditto Saad who teams now tag to stop his run
He needs a change of scenery
We may get away with the status quo this weekend but not against a top 4 team



Durdin will be too easily blown aside as an inside mid. At Marvel the run and carry must be provided by the HHF's, Wings and HB's. We need to squeeze the ground a lot more between the arcs. When Durdin currently plays HHF he essentially is playing as a midfielder with little impact so why start him in the middle.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 3:35 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
carntheblues wrote:
keogh wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Our midfield is predominantly ball hunters
Walsh and Cerra are good runners both offensively and defensively but aren’t penetrating kicks
It seems to me that when we lose possession between the arcs the opposition move it easier than when we win possession
I would love to see Durdin play minutes in the middle
He has pace off the mark
Opposition teams sit on Saad because he is the only player who can penetrate with his kicking from defense
So play him further up the ground


Go watch the first 10 rounds last year. Wasn't an issue


The last 8 games Cripps has been held to under 20 possessions we have lost 7 of them
That’s a decent sample size and therefore a problem
Hewett was also on fire last year. Our best clearance player during the first half of last year
He hasn’t been as effective
Teams now play a big bodied mid on Cripps who can run
Dunkley
Steele
Dawson
Cripps is not a good ball carrier. Neither is Hewett
Other teams have worked out that if they can match up with us on the inside it’s pretty much game over

So it is a problem that hasn’t been resolved for over a year
Voss needs to change up the personnel to create more run
Durdin for one should play midfield minutes
Ditto Saad who teams now tag to stop his run
He needs a change of scenery
We may get away with the status quo this weekend but not against a top 4 team



Durdin will be too easily blown aside as an inside mid. At Marvel the run and carry must be provided by the HHF's, Wings and HB's. We need to squeeze the ground a lot more between the arcs. When Durdin currently plays HHF he essentially is playing as a midfielder with little impact so why start him in the middle.


Many teams now use smal forwards at centre bounces for fresh legs and to take some pressure off FT mids. Works well as they only go in for 2 or 3 bounces and generate some energy and leg speed


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 7:50 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3560
carntheblues wrote:
keogh wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Our midfield is predominantly ball hunters
Walsh and Cerra are good runners both offensively and defensively but aren’t penetrating kicks
It seems to me that when we lose possession between the arcs the opposition move it easier than when we win possession
I would love to see Durdin play minutes in the middle
He has pace off the mark
Opposition teams sit on Saad because he is the only player who can penetrate with his kicking from defense
So play him further up the ground


Go watch the first 10 rounds last year. Wasn't an issue


The last 8 games Cripps has been held to under 20 possessions we have lost 7 of them
That’s a decent sample size and therefore a problem
Hewett was also on fire last year. Our best clearance player during the first half of last year
He hasn’t been as effective
Teams now play a big bodied mid on Cripps who can run
Dunkley
Steele
Dawson
Cripps is not a good ball carrier. Neither is Hewett
Other teams have worked out that if they can match up with us on the inside it’s pretty much game over

So it is a problem that hasn’t been resolved for over a year
Voss needs to change up the personnel to create more run
Durdin for one should play midfield minutes
Ditto Saad who teams now tag to stop his run
He needs a change of scenery
We may get away with the status quo this weekend but not against a top 4 team



Durdin will be too easily blown aside as an inside mid. At Marvel the run and carry must be provided by the HHF's, Wings and HB's. We need to squeeze the ground a lot more between the arcs. When Durdin currently plays HHF he essentially is playing as a midfielder with little impact so why start him in the middle.


Didn't bother Geel last night to throw in Jhye Clark, first game, came on as sub, told to go to the middle and had acouple of touches


At least I'll be able to see a frame on the telly where Durdin and the ball are in the same frame

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 10:40 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24664
Location: Bondi Beach
99prelim wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
keogh wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Our midfield is predominantly ball hunters
Walsh and Cerra are good runners both offensively and defensively but aren’t penetrating kicks
It seems to me that when we lose possession between the arcs the opposition move it easier than when we win possession
I would love to see Durdin play minutes in the middle
He has pace off the mark
Opposition teams sit on Saad because he is the only player who can penetrate with his kicking from defense
So play him further up the ground


Go watch the first 10 rounds last year. Wasn't an issue


The last 8 games Cripps has been held to under 20 possessions we have lost 7 of them
That’s a decent sample size and therefore a problem
Hewett was also on fire last year. Our best clearance player during the first half of last year
He hasn’t been as effective
Teams now play a big bodied mid on Cripps who can run
Dunkley
Steele
Dawson
Cripps is not a good ball carrier. Neither is Hewett
Other teams have worked out that if they can match up with us on the inside it’s pretty much game over

So it is a problem that hasn’t been resolved for over a year
Voss needs to change up the personnel to create more run
Durdin for one should play midfield minutes
Ditto Saad who teams now tag to stop his run
He needs a change of scenery
We may get away with the status quo this weekend but not against a top 4 team



Durdin will be too easily blown aside as an inside mid. At Marvel the run and carry must be provided by the HHF's, Wings and HB's. We need to squeeze the ground a lot more between the arcs. When Durdin currently plays HHF he essentially is playing as a midfielder with little impact so why start him in the middle.


Didn't bother Geel last night to throw in Jhye Clark, first game, came on as sub, told to go to the middle and had acouple of touches


At least I'll be able to see a frame on the telly where Durdin and the ball are in the same frame


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 12:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14900
Do we have a list spot for the upcoming mid season draft?


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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 6:20 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9606
Location: Australia
Quote:
Injuries to high-priced recruits Mitch McGovern (47 out of a possible 91), Zac Williams (23/52) and Jack Martin (39/69) and talented pair David Cuningham (41/179) and Caleb Marchbank (45/135) have placed more pressure on their depth.


Quote:
Respected pundits Garry Lyon and Leigh Montagna have both urged Carlton to move Curnow up the ground, as he can improve their kicking, and station McKay deeper.



Quote:
One source in the coaching industry, who spoke on the condition of anonymity so he could be more candid, sees the Blues’ midfield as top-heavy for inside players. He wants to see Jesse Motlop or Corey Durdin introduced to a centre-square mix lacking speed.


Quote:
Former Adelaide coach Brenton Sanderson remains bullish on the Blues’ prospects. He wants to see them show more composure and take the game on more. Unlike defensive structures, Sanderson said, ball movement could be fixed in-season.


Quote:
“I think if they go forward faster, they’ll be fine.”


Some good analysis here, almost like a “best of TC”.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tha ... .html?btis


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 7:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24664
Location: Bondi Beach
sinbagger wrote:
Quote:
Injuries to high-priced recruits Mitch McGovern (47 out of a possible 91), Zac Williams (23/52) and Jack Martin (39/69) and talented pair David Cuningham (41/179) and Caleb Marchbank (45/135) have placed more pressure on their depth.


Quote:
Respected pundits Garry Lyon and Leigh Montagna have both urged Carlton to move Curnow up the ground, as he can improve their kicking, and station McKay deeper.



Quote:
One source in the coaching industry, who spoke on the condition of anonymity so he could be more candid, sees the Blues’ midfield as top-heavy for inside players. He wants to see Jesse Motlop or Corey Durdin introduced to a centre-square mix lacking speed.


Quote:
Former Adelaide coach Brenton Sanderson remains bullish on the Blues’ prospects. He wants to see them show more composure and take the game on more. Unlike defensive structures, Sanderson said, ball movement could be fixed in-season.


Quote:
“I think if they go forward faster, they’ll be fine.”


Some good analysis here, almost like a “best of TC”.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tha ... .html?btis


Thank you sinbagger.
i wouldnt know it if you hadnt cut n pasted. Gold.

its good to read of minor adjustments needed to be our best version of ourselves.
The nuke the place requests are so back office, and they dont help focus on field.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 9:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7443
Location: Bendigo
Can’t help but wonder if all of these expiring contracts has flattened the mood a bit. That, and a really aggressive preseason.

I suspect the media groupthink will turn its attention to Jack in the next few days.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 11:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 17210
Crusader wrote:
Can’t help but wonder if all of these expiring contracts has flattened the mood a bit. That, and a really aggressive preseason.

I suspect the media groupthink will turn its attention to Jack in the next few days.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 12:39 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 48542
Location: Prison Island
What do you even do with that lot ?!?!

Gone - Durdin, Curnow, Philp, Cuningham, Marchbank, Plowman, Fogarty, Honey

Trade for stuff all - Dow, Mcgovern,

Keep - Silvagni, Pittonet, TDK, Newman, Kemp, Cincotta

??

Do Marchbank and Cuningham get reprieves again? Honey? Durdin maybe too

All pretty uninspiring.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 1:02 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Narre Warren VIC
Every Club has Injuries and long term injuries BUT we are the only Club in the AFL that seems to have the Same players again and again, getting injured and being placed on the Long Term Injury list!



who do you Blame? the Medicos? the Recruiters? the Training regime? the Coach?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 7:12 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
Posts: 154
We had our chance to build a successful list a win premierships but we really did stuff it up
I believe we should have gone with a experience coach instead of Bolton then we get to SOS
Wel here’s a bloke who basically butchered every pick we had besides Curnow and Walsh
the players he traded in are no good besides Kennedy and not to mention the wasted picks on some
of them
Then we get to Austin who has basically brought in 2 small forwards with our 2 early picks because
We needed small forwards instead of drafting the best available talent with those picks
So it’s time to be ruthless trade some players out who do have trade value and get as many talented players in ithe next 2 drafts before tassie comes along other wise we will be in another 10 year rebuild


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 8:39 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6319
Start again


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 8:53 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2028
keogh wrote:
Start again


Don’t think the club can afford to go through another “scorched earth policy” rebuilding a list. Sets us back another 5 - 8 years as a minimum. Need to get wise about finding a better balance to the list and focussing on drilling a system into our game plans which holds up against the better teams and not solely reliant on talent.

There is a semblance of a good team but I think we will need to find 6 - 8 players. Unfortunately, our better players are getting to an age, where the reset needs to be spot on so we can peak at the e right time. I have no faith the club is capable of doing this. I don’t think they have a choice.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:14 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
Start again


Don’t think the club can afford to go through another “scorched earth policy” rebuilding a list. Sets us back another 5 - 8 years as a minimum. Need to get wise about finding a better balance to the list and focussing on drilling a system into our game plans which holds up against the better teams and not solely reliant on talent.

There is a semblance of a good team but I think we will need to find 6 - 8 players. Unfortunately, our better players are getting to an age, where the reset needs to be spot on so we can peak at the e right time. I have no faith the club is capable of doing this. I don’t think they have a choice.


I agree WOW. We do need to make some bold decisions with our list though. This club is way too risk averse. From the board, to the match committee with selections, list management, playing style, the players going out there to not lose rather than going out there to win.
We have to be bold.
If that means making a call on our captain so be it. If we choose to retain him, do we look at trading out a Kennedy or a Hewett? We have too many of the same types. We need to make some bold decisions to get some outside run onto the list. Not only that, but players who cannot only simply kick, but are composed and make good decisions. Way too many panic merchants.
Do we now play TDK every week and hope he shows something and then if he chooses to walk, it maximises his trade value. If he continues to show nothing, it may reduce it, but we need to be bold and take that risk.
Is there anyone else with currency that we should look at moving on?
Others have mentioned H in the past. I admit I was reluctant, but starting to come around to that idea.
Who else can we shop around?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:15 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9097
Location: Nth Fitzroy
We need to change things as this group has come as far as it can go. I would tolerate a good trade for one of H, Jacob or Cripps.
Gather some early picks. Add some spark and point of difference that will allow us to adjust our gamestyle.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:21 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1170
Being 8-2 last year flattered us, could easily have been 5-5. We are about where we should be, a middling side. The Age nailed it, terrible recruiting. No club gets it right all the time but we seem to get recruiting wrong way too often. Player salary cap maxed out with highly paid players who hardly get on the park and often are pretty ordinary when they are out there. A captain who is one of the worst shots for goal in the league, plus other "stars" who are terrible by foot. The Dogs have plenty of players who are ordinary kicks for goal too, field kicking much better than us though. Could have been way worse at half time.


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