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FarmerBlue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 12:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
keogh wrote:
Our midfield is predominantly ball hunters
Walsh and Cerra are good runners both offensively and defensively but aren’t penetrating kicks
It seems to me that when we lose possession between the arcs the opposition move it easier than when we win possession
I would love to see Durdin play minutes in the middle
He has pace off the mark
Opposition teams sit on Saad because he is the only player who can penetrate with his kicking from defense
So play him further up the ground


Go watch the first 10 rounds last year. Wasn't an issue
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Traveller86
 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 1:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
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Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.
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robertbb
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 2:13 pm 
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John Nicholls
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carntheblues wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
I think its the sum of all parts.

Slower methodical movement can still work, but when will always fall down when our entries inside 50 are so inanely predictable. In recent years, teams like Geelong and Hawthorn have been able to make it work because you've got 6 to 8 blokes who are a genuine threat to take a shot on goal working inside forward 50, so you can chip it around, take your time and look for the best option.

Aside from the obvious issue of over reliance on Harry and Charlie, the majority of guys who could fill that gap are terrible shots on goal, or rarely spend enough time in that system to work out what their role is - I reckon Kennedy is a pretty reliable set shot, but he bounces around from forward/mid to mid/forward to bewilderingly in a back pocket to sub/mid pinch hitter, Martin is a great grab for his size and generally an OK set shot too. Can't get him on the park enough to work him into the system. Owies was becoming that guy before the hamstring tear. Silvagni is too poor a kick to consider in that context.

I'd be curious to see what the data says about how often we take shots from outside 50 with the ball in play, it'd be considerably less than most teams, and it allows teams to confidently push the spare back to fill a hole in front of Charlie or H instead. I'd rather we become unpredictable in that respect, and have a few games with an inaccurate scoreline, because at the very least you're forcing the opposition coach to reconsider their back half structures in the process.



I agree.


Yep, well articulated.

I'd add that our F50 entries often aren't deep enough. We pull the trigger from the wing/half back and the contest typically takes place around the arc. If we don't mark or lock the ball in for stoppage, we get opened up. We need one more possession (at least) before the inside 50. At least then if we do turn it over: 1) We get more time/space to set up behind the ball, 2) if we do happen to mark we're more likely to convert.

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FarmerBlue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 2:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Port Adelaide's Miles Bergman is reportedly attracting rival interest from interstate, reportedly on the radar of several Victorian clubs.

Bergman has played all eight games for the Power this year, averaging 15.8 disposals and 2.6 tackles per game in what is the final year of his current contract.

Per reports from the Herald Sun, the 21-year-old is weighing up his options ahead of a possible extension with the Power, whom he made his debut for in Round 1, 2021.

Bergman was originally drafted by the club with Pick 14 in the 2019 National Draft and has since played 41 games for the Power, but now the Sandringham product is attracting interest after a strong start to his 2023 campaign.

The young gun inked a two-year deal back in 2020 to recommit to the club, but speculation Victorian clubs are interested in luring him back to Melbourne has been swirling since 2022.

Port Adelaide would reportedly seek a first-round draft pick in exchange for the 21-year-old, but is keen to see him remain at the club beyond the 2023 season.
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CK95
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 2:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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He was very good against St K a couple of weeks ago

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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 2:55 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Traveller86 wrote:
Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.



Stick to the facts.

Should have been 9-1 our favour imo.

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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 3:10 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24663
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:

The speed of ball movement is our last challenge.

We play the right areas of the ground, we take the appropriate amount of corridor risk and we have the list to take the next step IMHO.

The next step is tempo of ball movement.

We take too long to move the ball and we allow the opposition too much time to zone ahead of the ball.

So we cant utilise the 20m kicks that break zones and fatigue the opposition. But I have faith it will come. We have the talent to do it. Our coaches need to train it and implement it.



Point is we have shown we have very capable players, and strength in many areas.

I would add on field leadership in each of the 3 areas as any area in need for improvement: backline, midfield and forwardline leaders. Leaders should gauge fatigue or opposition increasing the tempo and pressure and make adjustments whilst on the ground during play.

I believe the change will come. The boys know our strengths and our weaknesses.

I heard that there's a lot of input this week from the leaders, and some of established players with regards to the direction of the game plan. That's a good thing. Voss and the players will fix the abovementioned gaps. There's no arrogance going on. I have faith the changes will happen quick and smart.

and as usual, there will be changes to the list at the end of the year, for the better.

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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 3:13 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24663
Location: Bondi Beach
99prelim wrote:

IF IT WERE THE LIST, why oh why oh why has there been so much outrage, anger, frustration, vitriol, media scrutiny, booing, social media meltdowns, 100s of pages on TC, BF, FB etc etc etc etc etc?

After all, IF IT WERE THE LIST, why oh why oh why we would we not just accept losses to Adel (they were playing at home), StK (Lyon has them playing great footy) and Bris (they're a top 4 side) blah f*** blah

The reason IT IS NOT THE LIST is because all the things mentioned above are indicators that the team is UNDERPERFORMING against expectations
Whose job is it to get players to perform (at the very least) to expectation?????????????????????
And whose job is it to intervene/instruct/ameliorate the situation when players are underperforming????????????????


I'm sure you're on the money 99. You are not Robinson Crusoe.

Those last 3 lines are poignant, and I'm sure Vossy agrees with you in part. Players do have to improve execution and hit targets. That's their job.

I'm sure you will see change to the Game Plan.

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Traveller86
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 3:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1919
bondiblue wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.



Stick to the facts.

Should have been 9-1 our favour imo.


Really?

How should we have beaten the Suns or Freo away? We got completely outclassed in those games.
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GreatEx
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 3:40 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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You blokes crack me up. Every loss is a damning indictment, every win must be contextualised and rationalised away. Who ever said footy was meant to be fun, eh?
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99prelim
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:18 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3560
Traveller86 wrote:
Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.


I guess Brisbane's 3rd qtr burst papered over their cracks

I guess StKilda's 3rd qtr burst papered over their cracks

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AGRO
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:33 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24612
Location: Kaloyasena
99prelim wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.


I guess Brisbane's 3rd qtr burst papered over their cracks

I guess StKilda's 3rd qtr burst papered over their cracks




Certainly opened up ours.


:lol:

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CK95
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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:lol:

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robertbb
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:55 pm 
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John Nicholls
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:lol:

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bondiblue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24663
Location: Bondi Beach
Traveller86 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.



Stick to the facts.

Should have been 9-1 our favour imo.


Really?

How should we have beaten the Suns or Freo away? We got completely outclassed in those games.


We just shoulda.
Just had to play like it mattered.
That was last year.

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bender
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2765
Location: dudley!!!
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Mc Govern is on $700000 a season. This is his last year of a 5 year contract
Martin is on $600000 this year as he will be in 2024.
His contract was front loaded in his first year . He was paid 1.1 million in his first season so we could fit Zac Williams in the cap the following season as he is on roughly $850000 a season

Nothing more to be said really
I think Cook said on the weekend was almost an admission that the club has well and truly [REDACTED] this up


You've made some good points of late Keogh so don't ruin it with this fictional nonsense. You have idea what anyone is earning. None of us do.
Let's stick to reality. Passing off guess work as fact distorts the debate.

I don't understand the doom. Or maybe I do unfortunately. We're playing average footy and lacking confidence at the moment. But IMHO, we have the list to challenge the top 4. It can turn around quickly if the coaches get the strategies right. Let's not throw the list in the bin just yet.

Your delusional if you think we are equal to the teams reaching top 4



St Kilda? No King?
Better list than ours? Get your head out of your backside.
If both teams play to their capability, we're significantly better equipped.
And no, it doesn't matter how many times you trot out your player "figures", they're still the same made up shit they were every other time. Repetition doesn't equal validation.

StKilda won 11 last year
We won 12
And this year
Butler and Higgins crap on our small forwards
Marshall craps all over what we can dish up in the ruck
Is Seb Ross better than George Hewett
Phiilipou and Owens are young guns
Sinclair has more tricks in his arsenal than Saad
Wilkie is one of the best defenders going around
Steele is a terrific leader

You’ve got no idea
Obviously Lyon has adopted his stingy game plan which history shows works temporarily before the wheels fall off
So granted their game plan is better than ours at the moment
But our list is not superior to theirs
Our top end is better but after the best ten it drops away significantly.
Due to horrendous recruiting and trades


sos is there now, so i'm sure their drafting will go down the toilet

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Sydney Blue
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21397
Location: North of the border
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Mc Govern is on $700000 a season. This is his last year of a 5 year contract
Martin is on $600000 this year as he will be in 2024.
His contract was front loaded in his first year . He was paid 1.1 million in his first season so we could fit Zac Williams in the cap the following season as he is on roughly $850000 a season

Nothing more to be said really
I think Cook said on the weekend was almost an admission that the club has well and truly [REDACTED] this up


You've made some good points of late Keogh so don't ruin it with this fictional nonsense. You have idea what anyone is earning. None of us do.
Let's stick to reality. Passing off guess work as fact distorts the debate.

I don't understand the doom. Or maybe I do unfortunately. We're playing average footy and lacking confidence at the moment. But IMHO, we have the list to challenge the top 4. It can turn around quickly if the coaches get the strategies right. Let's not throw the list in the bin just yet.

Your delusional if you think we are equal to the teams reaching top 4



St Kilda? No King?
Better list than ours? Get your head out of your backside.
If both teams play to their capability, we're significantly better equipped.
And no, it doesn't matter how many times you trot out your player "figures", they're still the same made up shit they were every other time. Repetition doesn't equal validation.

StKilda won 11 last year
We won 12
And this year
Butler and Higgins crap on our small forwards
Marshall craps all over what we can dish up in the ruck
Is Seb Ross better than George Hewett
Phiilipou and Owens are young guns
Sinclair has more tricks in his arsenal than Saad
Wilkie is one of the best defenders going around
Steele is a terrific leader

You’ve got no idea
Obviously Lyon has adopted his stingy game plan which history shows works temporarily before the wheels fall off
So granted their game plan is better than ours at the moment
But our list is not superior to theirs
Our top end is better but after the best ten it drops away significantly.
Due to horrendous recruiting and trades
Saints started last year 8 and 3
Finished 3 and 8

I reckon same thing will happen this year

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Traveller86
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1919
bondiblue wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
Our first 10 rounds papered over the cracks.

Should have been 6-4 or 5-5 not 8-2.

One quarter bursts stopped and we got found out.



Stick to the facts.

Should have been 9-1 our favour imo.


Really?

How should we have beaten the Suns or Freo away? We got completely outclassed in those games.


We just shoulda.
Just had to play like it mattered.
That was last year.


If this group of players did that we'd be having a 20-2 season every year :grin:
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carntheblues
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 10:28 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I don't think our list is as bad as some state and recruiting is a no win job. Pick a gun and it was an obvious choice and select a guy with some deficiencies that get exposed and he's a dud and recruiters have no idea. The thing is every teams the same and every club has supporters that bag players. You are either an optimist or pessimist and with hindsight we all become realists!
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Rod Spooky Galt
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 10:31 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1390
We should have picked Jordan Murdoch.
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