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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 9:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'll wait til I hear what mojo31 has to say

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 9:26 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 10:30 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

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DesEnglish wrote:
Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


Yes


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:37 am 
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Craig Bradley
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FarmerBlue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


Yes

x 2
I just said the same thing in the Voss thread.
And put JSOS down back.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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CK95 wrote:
I'll wait til I hear what mojo31 has to say


:grin:

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Navy One wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
“If you look at [Carlton] statistically, they're up in contested ball differential, their clearances are ok, they're defending turnover ok.

“Their ball movement is very similar to St Kilda. They try and build from the back and then they try and go when they get their opportunity, and they actually finish better inside 50.

“So, there's a lot of things to actually to drill down and look at it, it doesn't give you the full picture.

“The picture is that Carlton's game is taken away from them too easily by the opposition and Carlton don't spend enough time taking the opposition's game away from them.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/07/the-buck-stops-here-a-message-to-franklin-hecklers-carltons-key-issue-and/

Other than the occasional tag from Ed, I don't see us really focussed on taking away the oppositions strengths. Voss backs his players to get it to Harry and Charlie.

Firstly we have to stop being one dimensional to Harry and Charlie.

Martin wont be back this week, but Owies will. His leading in the reserves was quite good. Whether his leads are honoured is another story in the AFL. Our HF's have been spreading and providing options and have been ignored.


But have they been ignored Bondi ? the leads are so tentative and wishy washy they create confusion in the bloke coming downfield with the ball . I reckon it is that split second of hesitation that is creating the poor kicks . FFS , if you are going to lead , lead hard and demand the ball .


Just from what Ive seen live and on TV in the last 6 games. Plenty of leads not honoured. Ignorance is the nicest word I could find.


Agree with your comment there Bondi .... I've witnessed that myself ...... BUT...... The abysmal passing to valid leads (call them whatever you want) was like watching a horror movie vs Brisbane.


and that too Navy One.

No matter how you spin it, our forward entry needs to be changed up. Increase the forward line's arsenal and stop being so predictable, and have the get rid of the bad kicks over time.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


Yes

x 2
I just said the same thing in the Voss thread.
And put JSOS down back.



JSOS instrad of Kemp?

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:55 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


Yes

x 2
I just said the same thing in the Voss thread.
And put JSOS down back.


I'd drop him or make him sub. We need more run from defence. Can't have Kemp and McGovern/Silvagni in defence

With Boyd Docherty Saad & Cincotta we should create more run from defence


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:59 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


Yes

x 2
I just said the same thing in the Voss thread.
And put JSOS down back.


I'd drop him or make him sub. We need more run from defence. Can't have Kemp and McGovern/Silvagni in defence

With Boyd Docherty Saad & Cincotta we should create more run from defence


Agree with last line. But with the addition of Boys do we need docherty down back?

Is Kemp the next man up, like for like, for who, other than Marchbank and Plowman? I dont get Kemp's role with Gov down back.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 10:06 am 
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Harry Vallence

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bondiblue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Do we try pushing McGovern back to HF and Charlie up the ground. Leave Harry by himself in the goal square. At least this two can kick the ball inside 50 and also provide goal threats.

Young, Weitering and Kemp as the talls down back


Yes

x 2
I just said the same thing in the Voss thread.
And put JSOS down back.


I'd drop him or make him sub. We need more run from defence. Can't have Kemp and McGovern/Silvagni in defence

With Boyd Docherty Saad & Cincotta we should create more run from defence


Agree with last line. But with the addition of Boys do we need docherty down back?

Is Kemp the next man up, like for like, for who, other than Marchbank and Plowman? I dont get Kemp's role with Gov down back.



My opinion is Docherty seems to bring so much calmness and control down back. With Cincotta & Kemp we need his experience. We have leaked more goals since he has been moved

I think a Backline of

B: Boyd Young Kemp
HB: Docherty Weitering Saad Cincotta is as good as any

then go back to our best midfield

C: Acres Cripps Hollands/Cottrell
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Cerra w Kennedy Walsh


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 10:23 am 
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John Nicholls

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All those calling for TDK to be recalled seem to have forgotten that he’s barely played any football for the last month at any level and before that he was playing so poorly he was dropped.

The only players I’d be promoting this week are Kennedy, Cottrell and Owies.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 12:05 pm 
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Rod McGregor

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sinbagger wrote:
All those calling for TDK to be recalled seem to have forgotten that he’s barely played any football for the last month at any level and before that he was playing so poorly he was dropped.

The only players I’d be promoting this week are Kennedy, Cottrell and Owies.


I'd be with you except that leaves Pittonet up against English/Lobb with only JSOS as backup assuming Young needs to stay back given the Dogs Naughton/Ugle-Hagen/Lobb forward line and JSOS rucking against guys with that much height advantage is just too much to ask. I'd even contemplate bringing in Mirkov who I don't think is ready for seniors but would at least present a realistic chance of winning tapouts or least not being dominated in that area. My preference would be to throw the gauntlet down to TDK who also presents some sort of option up forward or even tried down back if we are getting monstered by their tall forwards as may happen given we have only 2 genuine key defenders.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 12:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I heard somewhere Jamara is a test to play

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 1:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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blueianh wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
All those calling for TDK to be recalled seem to have forgotten that he’s barely played any football for the last month at any level and before that he was playing so poorly he was dropped.

The only players I’d be promoting this week are Kennedy, Cottrell and Owies.


I'd be with you except that leaves Pittonet up against English/Lobb with only JSOS as backup assuming Young needs to stay back given the Dogs Naughton/Ugle-Hagen/Lobb forward line and JSOS rucking against guys with that much height advantage is just too much to ask. I'd even contemplate bringing in Mirkov who I don't think is ready for seniors but would at least present a realistic chance of winning tapouts or least not being dominated in that area. My preference would be to throw the gauntlet down to TDK who also presents some sort of option up forward or even tried down back if we are getting monstered by their tall forwards as may happen given we have only 2 genuine key defenders.



I agree with sinbagger abot TDK's form, but really worry about the advantage the Dogs will get vs SOS in ruck.

We dont have the height down back to have the luxury of Young in the ruck for a chop out. Its going to be tricky.

I cant recall how well Pitto played against English and Lobb when at Freo. They are both taller than Pitto.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 1:21 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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FarmerBlue wrote:


My opinion is Docherty seems to bring so much calmness and control down back. With Cincotta & Kemp we need his experience. We have leaked more goals since he has been moved

I think a Backline of

B: Boyd Young Kemp
HB: Docherty Weitering Saad Cincotta is as good as any

then go back to our best midfield

C: Acres Cripps Hollands/Cottrell
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Cerra w Kennedy Walsh


OK, youve obviously got Kemp as the 3rd tall, and Gov most likely forward target.

I know there's a few who really like Kemp, but I question his ability as the Intercept mark.
No offence to Kemp, but he reminds me of Plowman in part. Not sure whether to lockdown or attack and intercept.
Also, Kemp and Plow are not great one on one against taller opponents.

I can see why Kemp has been playing HBF in the reserves and not 3rd tall, preferring Akuei or McMahon as the 3rd tall when Durdin and Plow are playing.

Totally get why Gov needs to be in forwardline for his marking but also speed SOS doesnt possess.

Its in the midfield and Harry & Charlie who have done the damage against Doggies in the past few years. Lets hope that continues.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 1:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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bondiblue wrote:

OK, youve obviously got Kemp as the 3rd tall, and Gov most likely forward target.

I know there's a few who really like Kemp, but I question his ability as the Intercept mark.


I think Kemp can be an fantastic intercept mark. He is a one touch very clean player
I was alos hoping at some stage Durdin would come in and allow Weitering to be our third/intercept player


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 1:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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bondiblue wrote:

I agree with sinbagger abot TDK's form, but really worry about the advantage the Dogs will get vs SOS in ruck.

We dont have the height down back to have the luxury of Young in the ruck for a chop out. Its going to be tricky.

I cant recall how well Pitto played against English and Lobb when at Freo. They are both taller than Pitto.


Pies are going okay without a ruck. I would rather haver NO ruck than an average one

I would be happy to go with Pittonet with support by Young McGovern even McKay. Give McKay minutes on ball, get him involved and mix it up a bit like Daniher does. Works well. Our midfield just needs to work off English

Allows us to have another runner


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 2:14 pm 
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John Nicholls
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FarmerBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

I agree with sinbagger abot TDK's form, but really worry about the advantage the Dogs will get vs SOS in ruck.

We dont have the height down back to have the luxury of Young in the ruck for a chop out. Its going to be tricky.

I cant recall how well Pitto played against English and Lobb when at Freo. They are both taller than Pitto.


Pies are going okay without a ruck. I would rather haver NO ruck than an average one

I would be happy to go with Pittonet with support by Young McGovern even McKay. Give McKay minutes on ball, get him involved and mix it up a bit like Daniher does. Works well. Our midfield just needs to work off English

Allows us to have another runner


Spot on. The way we were setting up for stoppage against Adelaide was 100% predicated on winning the ruck battle and we got clobbered when we didn't (and we never adjusted).

At least with no ruck we'll be forced to structure up differently and it may actually work to our favour.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 4:17 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Not sure why so many want to move McGovern forward?
I think he has been doing well as an intercept defender. But, if you think he hasn’t been going well, why would you move him forward where he has never been good?
We just need to switch Harry and Charlie so that Charlie plays CHF (in the Jeremy Cameron role) and Harry plays close to goal. And we need them to, as well as the smalls, to work together better providing alternative options and keeping the forward line open.
At the other end of the ground, I like Kemp and McGovern as the interceptors, with Weitering and Young to man the big forwards. (I’d be open to switching Weitering to an intercepting role but only once we have one of the others ready to take the shut down role). newman in traditional back pocket and Saad, Docherty/Cowan/Boyd running the ball out.
But, firstly, and foremostly :-) we need to win the ball in the middle and get it moving with speed and purpose. I’m less concerned about precision if we can master the speed and purpose - if the forwards set up well, they will make it work (which is how the Pies do it).


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