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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:53 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.
I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague

Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Mickstar wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
I'm clearly alone in still backing Honey in. I think he's just down on confidence and remember he's hardly played many senior games. That doesn't mean he should retain his spot in the side right now because his form is down. But I see a talented footballer who's not being developed terribly well right now. Just in the sense he's down on confidence and being asked to play seniors.


Your not alone Paddy . I always could see the blokes potential . Not sure why he is copping the criticism after the Saints game coz he played better than Motlop and Durdin not that that is an indicator coz that pair where putrid . It is the small/medium forward set up that is killing us at the moment .


He's NOT a forward. That's the issue. Slow turing circle and no X factor. Play HB where he can run straight and hard and kick it long. Those are his strengths


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:04 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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Crusader wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.
I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague

Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?


Hewett. There is no way he is 100% fit


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Crusader wrote:
Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?


I wouldn't have an issue with Hewett having a spell. Either in the 2s or the week off, depending on whether it's form or the hand injury that's diminished him over the last few weeks.

That brings my number of changes up to 6 :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I am happy to give Dow a final go. He has earned it with good form

My only hope was if we pick him he plays for a minimum 4 weeks and as a mid. Play him to his strengths

The one thing about Dow, if he can play well, he brings run and dash that we desperately need


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:26 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Kennedy is a better half forward than half back.

Saad back in, Dow into the midfield rotation, kennedy to half forward.

Carroll in for fisher - he certainly can’t offer less.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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bluebo baggers wrote:
Kennedy is a better half forward than half back.

Saad back in, Dow into the midfield rotation, kennedy to half forward.

Carroll in for fisher - he certainly can’t offer less.


I don't think Saad will play this week


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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He was listed at 1-2 weeks and some of you think he's coming back after 2 weeks, are you new to Carlton?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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It's not about the selected side this week but how we play and the game style for me


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:58 pm 
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Robert Walls
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GreatEx wrote:
He was listed at 1-2 weeks and some of you think he's coming back after 2 weeks, are you new to Carlton?


Fair call. Probably see him after the bye with Owies

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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FarmerBlue wrote:
bluebo baggers wrote:
Kennedy is a better half forward than half back.

Saad back in, Dow into the midfield rotation, kennedy to half forward.

Carroll in for fisher - he certainly can’t offer less.


I don't think Saad will play this week

I don't either. I went to the Captains club room before the game. Saad was interviewed. He said he "hoped" it was a one week injury.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:08 pm 
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John James

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm
Posts: 604
99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.
I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague
Nailed it.

I was happy to see Dow go at the end of last year, but the fact that he's still here and killing it in the VFL means that he should play ahead of those putting in insipid performances in the AFL.

I don't care if his output is no better than theirs, players need to be held accountable for poor performances and rewarded for consistency in the VFL.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7588
Location: Bendigo
FarmerBlue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.
I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague

Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?


Hewett. There is no way he is 100% fit

29 disposals (12 contested) and half a dozen score involvements just fell in his lap then?

The dud ruckman diminished his effectiveness in his return game. That problem was solved.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:15 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7588
Location: Bendigo
bluebo baggers wrote:
Kennedy is a better half forward than half back.

Saad back in, Dow into the midfield rotation, kennedy to half forward.

Carroll in for fisher - he certainly can’t offer less.

Three ins, one out.

Bold strategy…

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35836
Location: Half back flank
Crusader wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.
I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague

Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?


Hewett. There is no way he is 100% fit

29 disposals (12 contested) and half a dozen score involvements just fell in his lap then?

The dud ruckman diminished his effectiveness in his return game. That problem was solved.
If he'd got a few more metres gained we might have won.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:32 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Crusader wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.
I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague

Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?


Firstly, why do you have to drop an inside mid??
Voss brought in Durdin for Hewett weeks ago
Kennedy is supposedly a half back these day...I think Cerra did as well
Setterfield played wing most of last year
Ed Curnow is as close to cooked as you can get
Yes...that old "like for like" spin
Might've convinced housewives in the 60s being sold Hoover vacs by unscrupulous salesmen...but these days, "yeah nah"

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:09 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
I'm clearly alone in still backing Honey in. I think he's just down on confidence and remember he's hardly played many senior games. That doesn't mean he should retain his spot in the side right now because his form is down. But I see a talented footballer who's not being developed terribly well right now. Just in the sense he's down on confidence and being asked to play seniors.


Your not alone Paddy . I always could see the blokes potential . Not sure why he is copping the criticism after the Saints game coz he played better than Motlop and Durdin not that that is an indicator coz that pair where putrid . It is the small/medium forward set up that is killing us at the moment .


We put all our money into drafting Martin to fill our HF position. He's seasoned, can run all day, mark and kick goals....when he's fit. Cuningham was earmarked as the other HF and he was one of our draft picks we were developing.

We hear posters beg our coaches to develop our own, and give the kids a go, and when they are given an opportunity to build on their role, such as Honey has been, (and Kemp, Philp when played, Carroll) the same posters will say he's useless and doesn't deserve it and not ready, or a branded another failed draftee. Its quite sad. Yet those who know better about the player and our needs and our development plan, and our contingencies are selecting him. There's a message in that alone.

Have a look at the first 5 minutes of the game up to SOS first goal. Have a look at the 2nd goal of the quarter. Honey played a role in those goals. Cleared the path for SOS. His hard hits and physical game is what we want to see more of but its obvious he's playing a role to be an option on the outside.

In the last quarter Curnow kicks the ball long into the waiting arms of a lone Saint. The game was still in the balance. Honey had sprinted his guts out into the HF on his own about 35m from goal. He was completely ignored like Durdin was in round 23 last year in the last. No way Curnow could miss him coming onto his right foot. Glad the commentators mentioned it because no one seems to have mentioned it on footy forums. He's only 21yo.

We have been forced to play the kids before they are ready. Durdin Motlop have become faves for some but you don't hear boo when they play 80% game time and do very little. They all show signs, but not an AFL game...yet.

Kids need development and because of injury we need to play the kids. Honey is played to develop his HF craft because he has strength and is strong (have a look at last week's training photos), he's a unique specimen. He's super quick. Can take a mark and kick straight from 50. Any wonder why he has been getting games when he's fit? The cupboard is bare and we need to develop our own. What's our alternative? Trade in another HF which will take up plenty of cap space if we want a good one. That's where we are at. We need to develop our own. Its hit or miss if we are to see success, but we have to keep developing our own.

Kemp is another potential HF but he is being developed for a HB role. Dow isnt a HF. Fogarty wont be on the list next year. Carroll is a mid, but potentially a one sided HF. Honey seems to be the heir apparent. Lets hope we do a good job developing him and Motlop and Durdin. We are missing Owies and Martin more than some think.


I was there and remember it as Harry rather than Charlie (my memory's no guarantee though). That was the obvious one but he was also ignored in the third after quietly making space in the pocket of a congested forward line - a very gettable shot for him. Do our players panic too much, or not trust their short passing, or do we recruit a lot of players with no peripheral vision? Severely frustrating to watch when we needed some game breakers.

(Sorry, had to butt in with that - back to West Coast...)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yup….

best forward entry for the day….Harry splits the blue
boys for the Saint fella…!

poetry…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 1352
Crusader wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Arnhem blues wrote:
Part of the reason I am keen to see Dow given a go is not just because of what I think he can bring, it is simply to broadcast that effort is critical. You want to send a signal
that effort is its own quality. Being seen to reward it reinforces the value. Conversely if effort is not seen to be rewarded or if lack of effort is seen to be protected, the culture of the place deteriorates.

I think we did this (promote effort) initially with Ollie and cow but seem to have lost it since.
We have talent but we want to be seen as passionately desperate in every contest. Keeping paddy in the twos can send the message that it’s about who you are not what you do…
I don’t think paddy is a silver bullet -he may struggle initially as he may understandably lack confidence. But I think we want to encourage hunger.


HIT NAIL ON HEAD

I doubt any Carlton supporter is CONVINCED Dow will make it or make a difference

But, if you want to talk about "culture", the last thing you need is a toxic locker room divided over coaches pets or not (and yes, I know it happens in all sports, but it doesn't make it right)

We almost lost Kennedy bc of that %^%^ Teague

Righto then. Which inside mid are you going to drop to get him in?

You take Walsh out of the midfield and play him on the wing. With his running ability and footy brain you still get him on the inside. Walsh on the wing is far more dangerous and enhances scoring power.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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kezza wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
bluebo baggers wrote:
Kennedy is a better half forward than half back.

Saad back in, Dow into the midfield rotation, kennedy to half forward.

Carroll in for fisher - he certainly can’t offer less.


I don't think Saad will play this week

I don't either. I went to the Captains club room before the game. Saad was interviewed. He said he "hoped" it was a one week injury.
9 News had a brief clip saying he was a good chance to make a surprise return.

But you'd think the trip to WA prob means he won't.


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