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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:10 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:56 am
Posts: 75
Hi, I'm Mr Straw, I have an appointment with the Camel's back.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:19 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6348
Not much to add to what has been said
Voss has been given a 3 year deal
Don’t sack him
Stability offield is the key
Clearly we have gone backwards from round 10 last year
Give the coaching staff time to change things
But clearly change is necessary

I would change the list up
Kemp Dow Binns Carroll must be given extended time in the seniors
Ed Curnow retires and we get something in the mid season draft
Play Charlie in the middle
Has the tank and is a good kick
Durdin in the middle
He does some really good things when he has the ball
You can’t play all of
Acres
Hewett
Cripps
Walsh
Kennedy
Cerra in the one team
Too slow
Play De Koning through the year as number one ruckman and if no good trade him and get a first rounder
We have so many overrated average players costing us salary cap space
Mc Govern is a pea heart
Martin can’t get his body right
Get rid of them
Clean out the list
Many players up for contract
I’m happy to start rebuilding again

Voss must start changing players roles
He also should bring in the players mentioned
Drop
Ed Curnow
One of the players mentioned that are too slow
OBrien
Mc Govern
Honey
Doubt it will happen
We will beat WC by 4 goals and we will be ok


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:19 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: 父 父 父 父 父 父
tommi wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
I read we'd had zero running bounces for the game. Ouch.




No bounces….

at all…?


kindest regards tommi
Zeeeero

Nil

Nada

Not a sausage.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:41 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Here are some other Zero's

Impact in the game

Honey - Zero
Durdin - Zero
Motlop - Zero
Ed - Zero

1 goal from the 4 of them. Vossy should be saying ......Nope not on my watch.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:45 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Cazzesman wrote:
Here are some other Zero's

Impact in the game

Honey - Zero
Durdin - Zero
Motlop - Zero
Ed - Zero

1 goal from the 4 of them. Vossy should be saying ......Nope not on my watch.

Regards Cazzesman


I agree

Honey is NOT a forward
Durdin was "okay"
Motlop looked lost from the first bounce. Very disappointing
Ed is cooked. Couldn't keep up

Only thing I will say about small forwards in is we got it in so slowly they were swamped. To give our forwards the best chance it needs to get in quickly (and to advantage) otherwise sides are getting numbers back and swamping us. They have no room to move


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:52 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Have they ever heard of Pagan’s Paddock or Hudson’s yard?

When Hudson was at Hawthorn they left him one out at full forward..
No crowding problem.
Carlton’s set up after goals scored is Silvagni at full forward and Harry and Curnow beside him.

If Carlton’s biggest strength is Harry and Curnow get them at full forward one out patches 10-15 minutes each, get all other out to half forward line.

The forward line is way too crowded.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:54 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21521
Location: North of the border
Cazzesman wrote:
Here are some other Zero's

Impact in the game

Honey - Zero
Durdin - Zero
Motlop - Zero
Ed - Zero

1 goal from the 4 of them. Vossy should be saying ......Nope not on my watch.

Regards Cazzesman



We have the least number of goal scorers in the comp
To much reliance on to few so when they miss it is more noticeable and we become to predicable

we are behind average for forward 50 entries with 51.2 per game this has resulted in 24.5 shots on goal but we are only averaging 10.5 goals a game.

So 1 in every 5 time we go in we give the ball straight back either from a point / Out of bounds / turnover

We are the third most inaccurate side in front of goal and when you captain has 10 shots of goal for 0.7 it doesn't help

People are blaming our lack of run it is not that what the issue is it is efficiency in forward half - and lack of pressure on the ball coming out

You can add Fisher to that list as well of Zero

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:00 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 40291
Location: seaside
bluehammer wrote:
tommi wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
I read we'd had zero running bounces for the game. Ouch.




No bounces….

at all…?


kindest regards tommi
Zeeeero

Nil

Nada

Not a sausage.




Goodness….

you know what that is Gee…?

that’s %#@&ED…that’s what that is….%#@&ED…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:11 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Sydney Blue wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Here are some other Zero's

Impact in the game

Honey - Zero
Durdin - Zero
Motlop - Zero
Ed - Zero

1 goal from the 4 of them. Vossy should be saying ......Nope not on my watch.

Regards Cazzesman



We have the least number of goal scorers in the comp
To much reliance on to few so when they miss it is more noticeable and we become to predicable

we are behind average for forward 50 entries with 51.2 per game this has resulted in 24.5 shots on goal but we are only averaging 10.5 goals a game.

So 1 in every 5 time we go in we give the ball straight back either from a point / Out of bounds / turnover

We are the third most inaccurate side in front of goal and when you captain has 10 shots of goal for 0.7 it doesn't help

People are blaming our lack of run it is not that what the issue is it is efficiency in forward half - and lack of pressure on the ball coming out

You can add Fisher to that list as well of Zero


Is that because we get it in slow and bomb it which allows teams to get back and flood the back 50?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:17 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10388
Location: Coburg
at one point I seriously began to think the players had been instructed NOT to bounce, so obvious was it that they we uncomfortable taking a bounce - when did that happen?

Motlop - I think he thinks he is far ahead of where he actually is. One point stays in my mind, a p[ack flew, Motlop was alone behind the pack, should be an easy goal if the ball comes off the pack - the ball did... but Motlop moved too close to the pack (in fact he almost gave a free away) and the ball sailed over his head - needs to learn his craft befofe he thinks he is the bees knees.

Fisher - will not take a risk. Case in point that backwards handball in the back half because he could not move the ball forward he was so undecided.

Honey - did he even play, seriously until he took that shot on goal I didn't think he was playing...Shame, good kick but you know...you must get the ball before you can kick it!

Forward line is shit. How many times it was empty so went went sideways, backwards, paused (never bouncing of course) and then when we went forward there were thirty blokes in the forward line.

Harry - Great mark, shit shit shit kick...unless you are a St Kilda backman, then Harry's passes are sublime.

Charlie - Really this game he should have bagged eight or so, got 3 easy ones and then went missing. Just enough to keep everyone happy but not enough to help.

Ed - time to hang up the boots - put him in the reserves and let him play out the year there.

We can't kick
we don't bounce
We have no flair
We like to kick points not goals

seriously I feel we have not taken even a small step forward this year - if we are sticking with Voss and i assumer we will, then we need to get the best team around him and ell him to @#$%&! listen to their ideras otherwise we will swing from 12th to about 7th because of talent, not because of team.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:20 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 7286
I am happy in that we really had a go yesterday . Really had a go . Went in very hard for the football . Go in hard for the footy is unconditional DNA for CFC . No offs , no butts . I reckon we actually had the Saints rattled in the first half with our ferocity . Should have had the game sown up by half time such was our dominance in overall play ................ but thats the trouble , we didn't capitalise on our dominance . I"ll be honest , i don't really know what the problem was . We seemed to do everything right and then fluff our lines at crucial moments . Not just once but time again . Sheesh , talk about kicking a gift horse in the mouth .

Anyhow , no good crying over spilt milk . Whats done is done ................. so now onto the WCE over in the west . Gonna be a hard slog . Definitely no walk in the park . Just play hard like you did against the Saints . Go in hard and come away with the four points and i feel for certain we will start to see a better Carlton outfit . Its all about timing your run . The Melbourne Cup aint won in the Aultum Carnival . Nah , its a Marathon not a sprint and its the second half of the season that counts . Despite the criticism of Voss i fell he has learnt his lesson from last year . He is gearing the side for two rounds of football not one .

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:22 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Half back flank
FarmerBlue wrote:
Only thing I will say about small forwards in is we got it in so slowly they were swamped. To give our forwards the best chance it needs to get in quickly (and to advantage) otherwise sides are getting numbers back and swamping us. They have no room to move



I agree, although I think Lyon deserves a bit of credit for how rubbish we looked yesterday. To me it looked like the corridor was crowded all day which forced us to move the ball forward via the docks & via the rail yards :grin:

I said to my mate at half time you really can tell we are playing against a Lyon side. I just had a nasty feeling we'd lose this game simply because of the edge in the coach's box. And maybe the origins go right back to the Hawthorn match last year, when Mitchell pulled us to pieces in the second half.

I wonder if one thing we can improve is getting Voss a bit more tactical support

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:26 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
CK95 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Only thing I will say about small forwards in is we got it in so slowly they were swamped. To give our forwards the best chance it needs to get in quickly (and to advantage) otherwise sides are getting numbers back and swamping us. They have no room to move



I agree, although I think Lyon deserves a bit of credit for how rubbish we looked yesterday. To me it looked like the corridor was crowded all day which forced us to move the ball forward via the docks & via the rail yards :grin:

I said to my mate at half time you really can tell we are playing against a Lyon side. I just had a nasty feeling we'd lose this game simply because of the edge in the coach's box. And maybe the origins go right back to the Hawthorn match last year, when Mitchell pulled us to pieces in the second half.

I wonder if one thing we can improve is getting Voss a bit more tactical support


True they are well drilled but Adelaide did the same thing. I feel sides have worked us out very quickly


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:48 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 1007
FarmerBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Only thing I will say about small forwards in is we got it in so slowly they were swamped. To give our forwards the best chance it needs to get in quickly (and to advantage) otherwise sides are getting numbers back and swamping us. They have no room to move



I agree, although I think Lyon deserves a bit of credit for how rubbish we looked yesterday. To me it looked like the corridor was crowded all day which forced us to move the ball forward via the docks & via the rail yards :grin:

I said to my mate at half time you really can tell we are playing against a Lyon side. I just had a nasty feeling we'd lose this game simply because of the edge in the coach's box. And maybe the origins go right back to the Hawthorn match last year, when Mitchell pulled us to pieces in the second half.

I wonder if one thing we can improve is getting Voss a bit more tactical support


True they are well drilled but Adelaide did the same thing. I feel sides have worked us out very quickly


To be fair, there isn't much to work out.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:53 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7286
Agro jr wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
Only thing I will say about small forwards in is we got it in so slowly they were swamped. To give our forwards the best chance it needs to get in quickly (and to advantage) otherwise sides are getting numbers back and swamping us. They have no room to move



I agree, although I think Lyon deserves a bit of credit for how rubbish we looked yesterday. To me it looked like the corridor was crowded all day which forced us to move the ball forward via the docks & via the rail yards :grin:

I said to my mate at half time you really can tell we are playing against a Lyon side. I just had a nasty feeling we'd lose this game simply because of the edge in the coach's box. And maybe the origins go right back to the Hawthorn match last year, when Mitchell pulled us to pieces in the second half.

I wonder if one thing we can improve is getting Voss a bit more tactical support


True they are well drilled but Adelaide did the same thing. I feel sides have worked us out very quickly


To be fair, there isn't much to work out.


Geez , talk about the apple not falling far from the tree . Very good Junior .

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:29 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6474
What an interesting game that was.

Firstly, how good was Cincotta on his debut.

For the Anti-Voss crowd, I think the undervaluing of the Saints defence and it's structure vs our game plan and 4 other teams this year, is being a little short sighted.
They have a great system that has only leaked an average of 59pts, you'd be a fool to take that away from them so early in the year.
The question is if and when they will be worked out like we were last year.
As for our game plan, last year we were getting smacked on the rebound with a rush forward at all costs game plan, leaving our "slow" midfield with its pants down to defend.
While the attacking was great the defending was wide open and not only to teams that had a great rebound game.
Voss and co have obviously gone about trying to add layers of tempo to the game with controlled movement, something we seen Adelaide facilitate well last week.
I am all for this if we want to win a premiership, the issue is we currently lack the cattle to do this.
Of our top rebounding defenders with good foot skills (Williams, Doc, Saad & Boyd) we only had Mc Govern on the back line clearing the ball from the D50 which made us very predictable and even easier to defend.
So the only option then was to try and change the angles up and switch the play to move forward = slow ball movement.
As a criticism I feel if we were going to play that way and knowing how good the Aints were at rebounding, we needed to let the forwards be out numbered in F50 and create a defensive wall with the extra players for repeated F50 entries that would've eventually hit a target.
But then again with forwards that can't kick the football, would've it mattered.

I thought Pitto played well and getting first hand on the ball helped our midfield out massively.
But then we broke down with our kicking ability, both hitting targets and kicking goals.
And playing against the top defensive side in the league, you need to hit targets and kick goals.
Acres has a terrible kick, he cost us a couple of goals himself. Lucky for him he has running power and a good contested side.
Fisher is a spud, I hate to use that term but he adds nothing to the team, too small, can't kick the footy, cant lay a tackle and has no vision.
Although Cerra had 77.3% kicking efficiency, geez.....some of those kicks cost us drive and goals also.
Both Cerra and Acres were bombing a lot of kicks coming out of defence, this is where Saad and Doc are sorely missed in both accuracy and creativity.
Cripps, Charlie, JSOS and Harry need to have goal kicking practice all week.
Voss and co need to come out hard at them and say, no more kicking around the body, I'd rather you miss a drop punt then try that BS anymore.
This is what both killed any momentum in the game and lost us the game this week, an ineffective forward line.
No point winning all the stats and getting the ball forward if the forward line can't capitalise on it.

With the suggestions of adding Dow, watch the VFL, Dow can't kick the footy either. While he gets the ball he would've been smashed the last couple of weeks.
I get he is getting high disposals in the VFL, but he still goes missing for large chunks of the game also and even though I would like to see him play, aside from Ed I'm not sure who he replaces. Even Fisher is playing a role (although very poorly) Dow doesn't/can't. We need Owies or Martin back.

With all this being said, if we can't have players around the field that can actually hit a target by foot, we may have to go back to the mayhem style of moving the ball forward at all costs.
Either way, as in last week (and to be fair the previous weeks were not good either) our skills let us down again.
The players need to have a good hard look at themselves because they are professional "footballers" that can't kick the footy, you can't coach that.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:41 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 2023
Sidefx wrote:
What an interesting game that was.

Firstly, how good was Cincotta on his debut.

For the Anti-Voss crowd, I think the undervaluing of the Saints defence and it's structure vs our game plan and 4 other teams this year, is being a little short sighted.
They have a great system that has only leaked an average of 59pts, you'd be a fool to take that away from them so early in the year.
The question is if and when they will be worked out like we were last year.
As for our game plan, last year we were getting smacked on the rebound with a rush forward at all costs game plan, leaving our "slow" midfield with its pants down to defend.
While the attacking was great the defending was wide open and not only to teams that had a great rebound game.
Voss and co have obviously gone about trying to add layers of tempo to the game with controlled movement, something we seen Adelaide facilitate well last week.
I am all for this if we want to win a premiership, the issue is we currently lack the cattle to do this.
Of our top rebounding defenders with good foot skills (Williams, Doc, Saad & Boyd) we only had Mc Govern on the back line clearing the ball from the D50 which made us very predictable and even easier to defend.
So the only option then was to try and change the angles up and switch the play to move forward = slow ball movement.
As a criticism I feel if we were going to play that way and knowing how good the Aints were at rebounding, we needed to let the forwards be out numbered in F50 and create a defensive wall with the extra players for repeated F50 entries that would've eventually hit a target.
But then again with forwards that can't kick the football, would've it mattered.

I thought Pitto played well and getting first hand on the ball helped our midfield out massively.
But then we broke down with our kicking ability, both hitting targets and kicking goals.
And playing against the top defensive side in the league, you need to hit targets and kick goals.
Acres has a terrible kick, he cost us a couple of goals himself. Lucky for him he has running power and a good contested side.
Fisher is a spud, I hate to use that term but he adds nothing to the team, too small, can't kick the footy, cant lay a tackle and has no vision.
Although Cerra had 77.3% kicking efficiency, geez.....some of those kicks cost us drive and goals also.
Both Cerra and Acres were bombing a lot of kicks coming out of defence, this is where Saad and Doc are sorely missed in both accuracy and creativity.
Cripps, Charlie, JSOS and Harry need to have goal kicking practice all week.
Voss and co need to come out hard at them and say, no more kicking around the body, I'd rather you miss a drop punt then try that BS anymore.
This is what both killed any momentum in the game and lost us the game this week, an ineffective forward line.
No point winning all the stats and getting the ball forward if the forward line can't capitalise on it.

With the suggestions of adding Dow, watch the VFL, Dow can't kick the footy either. While he gets the ball he would've been smashed the last couple of weeks.
I get he is getting high disposals in the VFL, but he still goes missing for large chunks of the game also and even though I would like to see him play, aside from Ed I'm not sure who he replaces. Even Fisher is playing a role (although very poorly) Dow doesn't/can't. We need Owies or Martin back.

With all this being said, if we can't have players around the field that can actually hit a target by foot, we may have to go back to the mayhem style of moving the ball forward at all costs.
Either way, as in last week (and to be fair the previous weeks were not good either) our skills let us down again.
The players need to have a good hard look at themselves because they are professional "footballers" that can't kick the footy, you can't coach that.


Great post.

And your first paragraph in particular, we aren't paying the Saints any respect at all.

One thing that annoys me about our supporter base is our grandiose sense of entitlement and complete lack of respect for other teams.

We are not a top 4 side, and that's ok. We are 7-10th at the moment, because of said deficiencies. We need some luck to hopefully jag 7-8th and taste finals, and do a mini cleanout at the end of the year and some tough trades (TDK looking at you), and things can change very quickly.

But lets stop acting like we "deserve" to be top 2.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:45 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Sidefx wrote:

For the Anti-Voss crowd, I think the undervaluing of the Saints defence and it's structure vs our game plan and 4 other teams this year, is being a little short sighted.
They have a great system that has only leaked an average of 59pts


So we should go easy on the coach because the opposition have a good system... :confused:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:48 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6474
Traveller86 wrote:

Great post.

And your first paragraph in particular, we aren't paying the Saints any respect at all.

One thing that annoys me about our supporter base is our grandiose sense of entitlement and complete lack of respect for other teams.

We are not a top 4 side, and that's ok. We are 7-10th at the moment, because of said deficiencies. We need some luck to hopefully jag 7-8th and taste finals, and do a mini cleanout at the end of the year and some tough trades (TDK looking at you), and things can change very quickly.

But lets stop acting like we "deserve" to be top 2.


Exactly, I actually think the game plan we are "trying" to execute is solid, as Adelaide has shown us.
Someone just needs to tell the players they have a role by actually executing it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I said this yesterday - the first half was George Foreman -v- Muhammad Ali “Rumble in the Jungle” - we were Foreman, we threw everything at St Kilda and they just backed off on the ropes absorbing everything - we needed to have landed the knock out blow in the first half and early in the third but didn’t - I knew how the the rest of the game was going to unfold, everybody at the ground knew, except those people in our Coaches Box.

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