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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:14 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
The wrist slashing in here is ridiculous.

The people slashing their wrists in here are those that thought we were world beaters a few weeks ago.

The season is a long one. There has been improvement but Voss has always said that we have much to improve on.

The things I saw last night were:

1) Lack of desire - which might have come from sense of arrogance that we’re not entitled to yet. Thinking that we would win just because we’re top 8 and they’re not. Physicality was really missing. Manifested itself in too many missed tackles and lack of run. Forward pressure just not good enough.

2) Halfbacks got shut down badly. Saad didn’t play well. Too many times he left his man, failed to influence the contest and Keays gets goals out the back. To shut us down, you shut out clearance game and you shut down our HB run and we’re toast. That’s what happened.

3) Ruck situation cannot be repeated. Our rhythm in that department was completely thrown out of whack.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:37 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
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Too many Carlton players are not prepared to be playing competitive football this time of year. They’re normally off getting their operations to be ready for pre season.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:55 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Apparently some Crows feral in the crowd was calling Saad a terrorist.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:00 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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missnaut wrote:
Apparently some Crows feral in the crowd was calling Saad a terrorist.


If true should be banned for life


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:01 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Crows are a very plucky side . They take it up to anyone . Swans game a great example . Our problem is self satisfaction . Its like we are there . Nup , we are not there yet . Nullify our midfield and isolate Saad and Docherty and thats us done . For mine , all is not lost . The party aint over , the last light hasn't gone out in the room . Regroup , set a plan for the Lions . I would steal the Crows plan from yesterday and apply it to the Lions , that is , change the angles basically . Forget the long bomb down the line and the long bomb into the forward line . It is so easily exposed . We can beat the Lions folks , they aint that good . If anything they are slower than us . Lets turn the tables and give 'em there own medicine .

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:04 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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I still see a side trying to bed in a game plan and when to attack and when to defend. At the start of the year we weee very much run and gun and Voss is trying to find balance. Now we are too slow and reactive with ball movement.

I am also worried about our bottom 6. O’Brien Cottrell Setterfield Plowman etc don’t do enough consistently. Too much left to too few

We have improved a lot but have a way to go yet.
Last night was bad night but we are better than that. I reckon we will bounce back next week


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:12 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Just wondering why we don't man up the extra man in defence.
It leads itself to the opposition playing the game in their half.
Last night it appeared we struggled to get past the centre and when we did we either were out numbered or we all flooded forward meaning we were slaughtered on the turnover.

We had some disgraceful turnovers last night and Doc was leading the way

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:15 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Cherry Ripe wrote:
Bad day for the club.

Poor loss in reserves and a farcical shoot your own foot scenario in seniors.

You could tell after 5 minutes of this game, alarm bells were going off.
As others have rightly duly noted, there were so many less than satisfactory aspects, I won't bother trying to analyse.

But I would say, great coaches are pro active. Alas, we've been reactive for most of the year, and certainly again tonight.
Keays on Saad.... from left field, worked a treat for them. What move did we do to alter them ? SFA. McGovern forward.... no.
Fisher more time in guts... no.
Only 1 of rucks on ground at same time... no. Reactive rules.

Thought Cripps tried his heart out.
Has too few mates.
Someone please get Sav back to coach Harry. It's becoming a joke, but not many are laughing.

Tough to accept that performance but that's where we sit.
Round 23 will be our Grand Final.

We probably still fall into 8th, because all others are failing too, then cop a first week interstate final, and it's hello 2023 !

One very disappointed fan, lots of highs since 1965 when my love started but it's eroding into just fondness these days sadly.

PS....magoos lost to a lowly team also.
Some our supposed big name players who some think will solve all our problems.... did next to nothing for that level.
Fogarty with 30 touches was our best, which to me tells you a lot.


I have been following Carlton since 1968, so I get the pleasure the team has bought us over the decades.
I too could sense something wrong in the VFL with 10 listed players playing.
The only difference with you, is my enjoyment and arrogance eroded at the end of the Judd era, but now can see the renaissance of a Mighty Power.

Our objectives at the beginning of the year were different from different parties:

Cook wanted 85,000 Members, 12 wins, recruit a great coaching team, continue to improve facilities etc TICK TICK TICK TICK
Voss wanted his players to show an irresistible commitment at the contest, improved team defense, and a year of Transition TICK TICK TICK
Austin added more class the squad with Cerra and Hewett, and picked up Motlop TICK TICK TICK
Sayers wanted to play Finals ... more than likely

No doubt Carlton has achieved all its KPI's for 2022, with the exception of sayers' KPI. The improvement in our coaching group is obvious, and we have to remember we are not the finished product, and we don't bat deep: we missed Hewett who isnt fast but he's elusive and creates the connectivity within the midfield group. Williams and Boyd give us extra run in the backline and give Vossy more options to move around players and stick with the game plan.

Before the game, I asked that Harry hold his marks when his hands got to the ball. He failed again, and that banana kick at goal was disrespectful to thos players upfield who worked hard in trying conditions to get the ball to him, let alone the Carlton fans. That shot was deflating. Anyone diagree?

During the first half I posted we need to through one of Williams or Saad into the midfield group to add intensity and speed out of the contest, but with Newman out with a knee we didn't have the troops to cover in the backline without Williams, Newman and Boyd out injured. We lacked pace outside the contest, and the wingers we have a never going to do it for us (unless they improve...).

When Kennedy went down, there went our 2nd half comeback.

I felt we could have had Stocker in the midfield to target that ground ball or Crippas quick gives.

The 2 rucks had nothing to do with the loss. The ball didnt get into the fowardline with fluidity or any semblance of rehersed methods other than bombing it long.

Cripps was effective, as was Walsh. They won the ball and they handed it out. They players efforts to receive their hardwork have to be questioned, let alone the personnel.

Cerra's tackling and pressure was fantastic again. I don't know why Fisher didnt go in there to add zip, or Saad for a short period.

Nevertheless Vossy has improved us and there's a huge spotlight on the personnel we have.

Are we seriously expecting the following to carry us in the heat of Finals this year: Plowman, LOB, Setterfield, Durdin, Motlop. Ive still got question marks on Newman, Owies, Fisher (to a lesser degree), and love Cottrell, but he needs to get more involved too.

Owies and Pitto only back for their first game in yonks. Young needs to know when to mark and when to punch the ball away.

Lets face it, Crows had bigger, faster bodies with my desire to tackle, break a tackle and win the ball. And another thing, that was the Crows best performance of the year. It just clicked for them. This game should prepare us for the next 3.

I am still proud of Carlton circa 2022. This morning at footy training, the talk amongst footy fans, Swans supporters, level headed Carlton fans, wasn't as demeaning as the commentary for Carlton forum posters. The result surprised everyone, but there is still a lot of respect with the way Carlton under Voss have performed this year.

The losses we've had to Pies, Saints and Crows this year shows us what happens when the opposition play for keeps and we are 5% down on maximum effort, on every line.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Last night it appeared we struggled to get past the centre and when we did we either were out numbered or we all flooded forward meaning we were slaughtered on the turnover.



The forward line needs a bit of a refresh IMO. I'd consider shifting a few pieces around & having Mcgovern at half forward.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:24 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:48 pm
Posts: 270
bondiblue wrote:
I have been following Carlton since 1968, so I get the pleasure the team has bought us over the devaceds.
I too could sense something wrong in the VFL with 10 listed players playing.
The only difference with you, is my enjoyment and arrogance eroded at the end of the Judd era, but now can see the renaissance of a Mighty Power.

Our objectives at the beginning of the year were different from different parties:

Cook wanted 85,000 Members, 12 wins, recruit a great coaching team, continue to improve facilities etc TICK TICK TICK TICK
Voss wanted his players to show an irresistible commitment at the contest, improved team defense, and a year of Transition TICK TICK TICK
Austin added more class the squad with Cerra and Hewett, and picked up Motlop TICK TICK TICK
Sayers wanted to play Finals ... more than likely

No doubt Carlton has achieved all its KPI's for 2022, with the exception of sayers' KPI. The improvement in our coaching group is obvious, and we have to remember we are not the finished product, and we don't bat deep: we missed Hewett who isnt fast but he's elusive and creates the connectivity within the midfield group. Williams and Boyd give us extra run in the backline and give Vossy more options to move around players and stick with the game plan.

Before the game, I asked that Harry hold his marks when his hands got to the ball. He failed again, and that banana kick at goal was disrespectful to thos players upfield who worked hard in trying conditions to get the ball to him, let alone the Carlton fans. That shot was deflating. Anyone disagree?


Fantastic post bondiblue. 1968 was my first season as well. I agree with everything you’ve said.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:31 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
missnaut wrote:
Apparently some Crows feral in the crowd was calling Saad a terrorist.



... and no one reported him/her to Ground Manager, or better still record them?

I hope the AFL Commission pounces on the scum at the ground.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:36 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:40 am
Posts: 201
Location: Carlton
keogh wrote:
Adelaide are doing a slow rebuild
Can’t think of to many situations where they have given away picks for one player
They play a very accountable style of footy
Their last 3 quarters of footy against Sydney last week was excellent
Jones Murphy Soligo Hinge Berry Mc Adam Mc Henry
Schoenberg Murray Milera Fogarty Himmelberg Butts all good kids
Dawson the only trade I can think of
They are missing a few as well
Nicks is a hard task master

You can see they are building
So the lose over in the city of churches ain’t no surprise
I had hopes we may get a double chance spot a few weeks ago
It maybe we miss the eight completely now
Regardless we have improved and given the previous decade we should all be grateful for that

We desperately need pace through the midfield
When a team such as Adelaide puts that much heat on we don’t have the leg speed to deal with it
Guys like Durdin and Saad need to play in the guts

DeKoning needs to play as a ruckman
Pittonet being picked was a mistake
He is a back up
Nothing more
We need to hit up targets more frequently when the ball is in our forward half
Too many long bombs tonight
We need to get passed guys like Plowman and Setterfield who clearly arnt good enough
I thought OBrien wasn’t too bad tonight
I like what the club has done with Dow
He at least has pace
Time to bring him in
And I thought Kemp was harshly done by the MC a few weeks ago
He looks far better than Plowman and did ok yesterday
Carroll looks ok to
Important we make every pick in the draft count over the next few years


Yes good summary Trev. Definitely need to inject some verve and pace into that middle. Our ability to win the ball has been good all year but then our ability to burst away and hit targets has been way below par for most of the last couple of months. I like that they're working Fisher through there but we need him to impact with his disposal going forward more. Like you say i guess Dow can be tried now that Kennedy is missing a week. He would add pace but his kicking once he breaks away is still an issue..he has been kicking goals in the seconds so that's something. Also thought Kemp was holding his own & funnily enough he seems to have good speed - something we need more of all over the ground and something Plowman does not bring.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:38 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Funny thing you two blokes mention 1968 coz that was the first Flag i had seen us win . A real windy blustery day . We nearly kicked ourselves out of it with a heap of points . The Club kicked right on from there and has given us HEAPS of enjoyment since . Its hard yakka at the moment but we are on our way .

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/ ... 1963342848

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:03 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8185
About this time the previous 2 years we turned our toes up when a chance to play finals. Hopefully we are not doing again. I'll give them the benefit of being a one-off this time. Remember the rotten effort against North round 19 last year then the next week we came out and really flogged St.Kilda. Hopefully a similar effort next week.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Adelaide are doing a slow rebuild
Can’t think of to many situations where they have given away picks for one player
They play a very accountable style of footy
Their last 3 quarters of footy against Sydney last week was excellent
Jones Murphy Soligo Hinge Berry Mc Adam Mc Henry
Schoenberg Murray Milera Fogarty Himmelberg Butts all good kids
Dawson the only trade I can think of
They are missing a few as well
Nicks is a hard task master

You can see they are building
So the lose over in the city of churches ain’t no surprise
I had hopes we may get a double chance spot a few weeks ago
It maybe we miss the eight completely now
Regardless we have improved and given the previous decade we should all be grateful for that

We desperately need pace through the midfield
When a team such as Adelaide puts that much heat on we don’t have the leg speed to deal with it
Guys like Durdin and Saad need to play in the guts

DeKoning needs to play as a ruckman
Pittonet being picked was a mistake
He is a back up
Nothing more
We need to hit up targets more frequently when the ball is in our forward half
Too many long bombs tonight
We need to get passed guys like Plowman and Setterfield who clearly arnt good enough
I thought OBrien wasn’t too bad tonight
I like what the club has done with Dow
He at least has pace
Time to bring him in
And I thought Kemp was harshly done by the MC a few weeks ago
He looks far better than Plowman and did ok yesterday
Carroll looks ok to
Important we make every pick in the draft count over the next few years


Good post keogh. Measured.

Nicks is a hard task master, and makes the hard decisions.
I think we've got one of those in Voss.

They only had first year player who has gone a bit off as the season progressed in Rachele and the old bloke Sloan missing.
We have Pitto and Owies back from long lay offs.
Marchbank, Martin and Carroll back playing reserves after injury.
We have Williams, Boyd and Hewett out injured and Hayes suspended.
We have lost Jones, Oscar, Cuningham, Curnow, Philp for the season.

We didnt lose because we had Pitto in the ruck.
We know TDK and Jack can't cope against the big rucks.
Jack is heart n soul, but not a ruckman for Finals.

I thought Carroll looked lost yesterday in the VFL.
Conditions at Willi are usually awful and that bog in the middle was crap.
Downie killed Mirkov in the ruck too, so we had no supply, and Dow had a hard tag, and has been quiet last month.
Maybe its time to start playing Stocker in the middle, and hope Philp recovers for next year.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:09 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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kezza wrote:
bender wrote:
david31 wrote:
What has happened to our midfield? Individual stats generally ok but minimal impact. -17 in inside 50s. One of the best midfields over the first 10 weeks. Average at best over last 10 weeks.


other teams worked us out - we are too one dimensional with no plan b

We are also too slow.
When we have the ball we are lightening fast.

Last night we were slow of brain not of foot.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:16 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Effes wrote:
https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1553542091963342848



Amazing vision

Can't blame Voss for the tackling efforts.
Was embarrassing to watch last night...for 4 quarters.

Nothing to do with the Board, nor Voss.
It is the players' intent, and techniques, and strength that needs questioning.
Surely this is sorted by this stage in their footy careers. They teach them to tackle in the Under 18's.

Select a hungry 18 on the ground and you will see a huge difference.
The players who cant apply a tackle are not Finals footballers.

Nothing to do with the Rucks, nor Voss, Nor the Board.
Weak players are being played because that's all we have got.
Have you seen Dow and Carroll apply a tackle over the last month.

Martin can tackle and his tackles stick.
Fogarty tackles at VFL level, but too slow for AFL imo.

Need to improve in this area next year, but in the short term the genuine intent to tackle must change.

Like the old saying goes: "if you cant change the people, change the people".

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:20 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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The Crows were doing something right. At one point we got the ball moving quickly and handpassing to an overlapping player only for them to have a crow in their face, then gave off to another overlapping player and crow in their face and again and again. We were doing nothing wrong but couldnt get clear. We finally got enough space to send the ball forward by foot only for the camera to pan back and we see every carlton player manned tightly with two spares rushing back to where the ball was going. I was calling for a headcount ! I think Mckay still marked but missed with a boomerang.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:21 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 4412
Location: Perth
Still flat as a tack this morning. Struggling to comprehend how we could be so, so poor with so much at stake.

We can mitigate all we like but the reality is we’ve been patchy since the bye.

Shitload of injuries, having to plug holes long term, reintegrating players back from long layoffs and no doubt players probably playing ‘sore’. Fully acknowledged and accepted. No excuse though for the lack of effort, intensity and pressure. And for playing so slow ALL game.

Hoping like hell we can respond. Honestly though hard to shake the feeling our season will now derail.

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