And option d)
Ollie Wines for two first round picks, we said no.

Looking good surrey....are you getting excited for 22?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

We still have Boyd as far as I can work out.

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Silvagni

Sorry Keogh, I was busy trying to have a life.
It's all opinion. You claim Cerra is their 5th best mid yet they played him as a starting mid most of the season. Fyfe was pushed out because he wont work defensively, Cerra does. Serong played as a half forward, wingman or defensive mid until late in the season.
If you offered 17 other clubs Fyfe, Cerra, Serong, Mundy or Brayshaw, I'd suggest Cerra would be in the top 3 of all.
He wins inside/outside ball, unlike your cheeky stats above which have Mundy as their best metres gained mid, Cerra is their best. (Nice try to scam us but Mundy isn't close)
And he has progressed to being as good an inside 50 kick as Mundy (Who is exceptional)

So he just finished top 5 in their B&F for the second consecutive year. As a 21 year old.
He's a bigger mid than Brayshaw or Cerra (which I know you like)
He's a better user of the ball, has a better inside/outside mix, runs hard defensively, is an elite inside 50 kick.
He'd be Top 30 in the AFL for metres gained as a MIDFIELDER. That puts him in elite company like Bont, Oliver, Petracca, McRae, Kelly, Merrett, Parish. Better than any of our mids including Walsh.

So would I take him for a first rounder and a future 3rd? absolutely. Especially at a time where the Victorian talent has hardly played for 2 years, there's been no national champs for 2 years and there are huge unknowns about the interstate youth.
Just my opinion but I'd rate Cerra as their second best mid. That's why they offered him a 4 year deal at 750K.
He has 10 years of footy ahead of him and he's exactly what we need.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Time will tell as always
McGovern fail ( pick 13 McAdam)
Williams fail can’t play mid ( on 850000
Setterfield fail ( pick 20 Ish plus pick 43)
Martin fail (3.5 million over 5)
Saad( pick 10) fail for mine very limited player

So hopefully this big trade turns out ok
Cerra definitely is a more outside mid
He is going to have to get harder in close to be better
6 th time lucky

Keogh what would you have done this year and draft period?

I'm honestly interested because there is much you criticise and I agree with but I don't see an alternative presented to consider .

Would you have chased cerra at all? Would you have tried to invest in a Ruck rather than a defender? Are you happy with our midfield stocks and would have taken picks to the draft? Dumped players so we had more 4th and 5tg round picks when everyone starts passing?

Because what I see from the club this trade period is a clear plan. A decisive and considered way forward attracting young talent that can grow with the group.

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Congratulations CK95

You can have a maximum of 38 on the primary list and a maximum of 6 on the Cat A rookie list, BUT only a combined maximum of 42 on the primary list and Cat A together, i.e. either 38-4, 37-5 or 36-6. The Cat B rookies (maximum of 2) are in addition to that.

At season's end :-

- Primary list was at 36, since then minus 5 (Murphy-Casboult-SPS-Gibbons-Ramsay) plus 3 (Hewett+Cerra+Young) which by maths leaves us currently at 34.

- Cat A rookie list was at 8, only Eddie has come off since, so currently at 7.

- Cat B rookie list was (and still is) at 1, Owies. Can add 1 more irrespective of what happens on Primary and Cat A list.

We have to take 3 picks in the National Draft, so our Primary list looks like it will probably end up at 37, assuming no further player trade outs. How we'll use those 3 picks is the unknown. I'm guessing we use two picks and promote one rookie. If that's what happens, we'd still have to delist one more from the Cat A rookie list at a minimum, and two or more to participate in the Rookie Draft. If we were to use only one pick and promote two rookies in the ND, we'd only need to delist Cat A rookies if we wanted to participate in the RD.

In relation to List Management generally it’s obvious from the club’s point of view that the premiership window is now.
That’s why we have used our last two first round picks on experienced players.
We also have taken up salary cap space to get Martin and Williams
Add Hewett and Cerra who both will chew up another 1.1 million in hard cap space

If you look at the premiership profile of most flag teams it is built on drafting kids and developing them
In the case of Melbourne Lever, May Hibbard and Brown were inclusions from other clubs
The rest were kids drafted and developed.
So the culture is developed so when guys like May screw up there bought into line.

We have failed miserably in this area
This year just finished the club internally felt it under performed and felt it needed a new head coach, assistants and a new CEO.
So now Cerra inclusion means players take a pay cut.
That’s a great start

To me the building towards a flag at this club is so disjointed

I predicted doom and gloom in 2021
I was right
How good is this list
Whilst McKay Walsh Weitering and Jones were amazing the rest of them were very ordinary
Kennedy Silvangi improved significantly
Owies Honey DeKoning showed some things
The less said about the rest

Having seen a bit of Sam Ramsay I thought he was worth a shot

This club still goes after the big fish and isn’t patient enough with developing talent from the draft

We were terrible this year
No doubt about it
As usual we relied too much on too few
If Walsh or Weitering got injured we would have been totally screwed

So in conclusion getting one player who isn’t elite yet and giving up a first and third rounder for him doesn’t solve our problem
We all should know that given the past 20 years

If Voss can work out how to get the best out of this group then he is the Boss
If he doesn’t well it’s
Voss the toss

If you look at Melbourne the two players they gave up a lot for in picks were May and Lever.
That’s it.

Without going into these trades basically you can argue May was a straight swap for Jesse Hogan
Both key positioned meat heads but the penny dropped for May in 2020 due to the culture developed by a stable club who were patient on and off the field

Speaking of Penny he was acquired in the Lever trade as a pick 35 and he has developed into one of the best 3 rd defenders in the comp.
Put it this way he is streets ahead of Plowman
Melbourne gave up a lot for Lever but it’s paid off
Pickett was good pick up as well and Fritsch was a steal as a pick 31

Are we getting a clearer picture here fellas

I agree we seem to have ballsed up many of the big name recruits. Martin, McG and Williams all had history with injury, fitness, ability to stay on the park.

The club need to find ways to get these 3 consistently fit and on the park. I think that's why part of Voss' comms has been about availability. He knows we've had too many good players not on the park. The club are in effect throwing the challenge to these perennially unavailable talents. Get fit or you'll be shipped off soon.

In terms of Cerra I think he's a great get. He's a young midfield star and a better bet than chancing our arm on pick 8. And 3rd rounders are meaningless. This isn't the NFL where the draft runs deep. A 3rd rounder here is a crap shoot you'll likely lose.

Hewett is a good pick up too. Got him for nothing and he fills a void for a big bodied, defensively minded mid.

The key thing IMO is unlike Martin, McG and Williams (and you can throw Setterfield into that unavailable mix too), the reality is Cerra and Hewett tend to be available !

No you can't do 38 + 6. Max Players on Main List + Rookie List is 42 total.

We got to 45 last year due to 1 x Cat B (Owies) and 2 x Mid-Season Draft picks

Currently Have 34 on Main List and 5 Rookies (Owies, Kennedy, Honey, Mirkov and O-Mac - if you read into Austin's comments). So that makes 39 players. Only 3 spots left.

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Go Blues

+ Boyd?

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Owies is a Cat B rookie so I am a bit confused as to how this works.
Is he an extra player we can have on the list?

Not of what you would have done, sadly, keogh!

What would you have done this trade and draft period.

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Congratulations CK95

Boyd was only on a six month contract IIRC so not sure where that puts him right now.

I won’t lie, the trade / draft / preseason periods always get me up and about.
Can’t say I’m happy with the SPS trade, but let’s hope Young makes up for the obvious draft loss.

This year we’ve had some very important and badly needed changes off field, so extra confidence to look forward. Let’s just hope we finally have the personal both off field and on field to drive the successful culture mindset that has been badly lacking.

The question that needs to be answered is, how much does this playing group really, really want success? Talent is there. Talk can sometimes be, well just that.........I would say round 1 to round 4 will be a good guide. Mental attitude needs to change!!

Same as the others mentioned above as out of contract...

Matt Cottrell, Luke Parks, Oscar McDonald & Jordan Boyd remain as the only currently listed players without new deals.
(Riley Beveridge)

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I'd agree with that. On the highlighted part, so a story on news where players agreed to take a pay cut to fit Cerra in. Putting aside for a moment concerns that cap space may be tight, that is the first time I'm aware of that our playing group has taken on such a selfless act.
Have seen other clubs playing groups take paycuts to keep the group together or get someone in who they believe will make them better.
Never seen our playing group do that before. That is a very positive sign that they are willing to make sacrifices to achieve success.

I was always going to get to that.
I would rebuild again.
Pick kids rather than trade picks.
Recruit players from the lower leagues who mature later particularly
bigger blokes.
I not entirely against recruiting from other clubs with picks but it has to be at the right time
SOS did more damage than Bolton and Teague combined.
We three top 10 picks he recruited three very average players in Dow, O’Brien and SPS.

He then traded 5 picks for Setterfield and McGovern.
He totally screwed up.
Rather than realise this the club has continued to play catch up ever since by acquiring overrated players in Martin and Williams on massive coin over a combined 11 years plus give away another top 10 pick on a one trick pony in Saad who is on big coin over 5 years.

So the damage has been done.
I would have reset again 3 years ago

So given the list we have for 2022 what would I do if I was Voss
1 make Weitering captain Walsh his deputy.
Cripps is not a captains areshole . To me he doesn’t drive standards hard enough. Too much like one of the boys and Docherty has too much on his plate. Weitering would make a really good captain and Walsh and him would drive the standards better.

2 pick players on effort not reputations. Watching McGovern Williams and Martin running around in the navy blue has been utterly embarrassing. Get fit harden up otherwise @#$%&! off to the reserves

3 give more players more than one role . Look at Saad. On big long term contract can only play in one position and can’t use his right side at all. If you can’t be flexible and play a variety of roles on game day piss off to the reserves
4 try JOS Charlie Curnow Owies Kemp in the mid field give Cripps a 50 50 role deep forward mid
Have 12 players going through the midfield
Have your guns in there when it counts. Be innovative by creating a team who is more flexible than any team before

I hope I have answered your question

Yep, the Cat B rookies (max of 2) sit outside the main list of 42 players (max). Basically can have 42 players at most on primary and Cat A lists combined, plus up to 2 on Cat B list, for a possible 44 players maximum across the 3 lists.