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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:50 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 10069
Location: Australia
The Normal One wrote:
An interesting observation I’ve had since Barker left is in relation to the baton being passed, by that I mean the emergence of a number of young players as leaders of this team, it may only be coincidence, but we have other evidence with our midfield now developing.

I know Teague has talked about it, but I’m really starting to see this team being driven by a few, namely Walsh, Weitering, Silvagni, Stocker in support of Cripps.

They all offer a hard edge and passion, but more importantly demanding the team to lift at times. I’m not sure I’ve seen this at Carlton since the early 90s.

Is this the core that will take us to the promised land? And how much has Teague had on influencing this change? Or am I seeing things?


It’s interesting how much we have not missed the leadership of Cripps, Murphy, Docherty and Casboult.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:32 am 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
sinbagger wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
An interesting observation I’ve had since Barker left is in relation to the baton being passed, by that I mean the emergence of a number of young players as leaders of this team, it may only be coincidence, but we have other evidence with our midfield now developing.

I know Teague has talked about it, but I’m really starting to see this team being driven by a few, namely Walsh, Weitering, Silvagni, Stocker in support of Cripps.

They all offer a hard edge and passion, but more importantly demanding the team to lift at times. I’m not sure I’ve seen this at Carlton since the early 90s.

Is this the core that will take us to the promised land? And how much has Teague had on influencing this change? Or am I seeing things?


It’s interesting how much we have not missed the leadership of Cripps, Murphy, Docherty and Casboult.


Will need them fit and in top form when we play top four type teams.

Club is doing well developing leaders - McKay and Walsh are also leaders in their own right. But will definitely need Cripps and Doc fit and firing.

Marchbank, Charlie, Cunningham, Pittonet and McGovern...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:00 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
GreatEx wrote:
jim wrote:
We are defending better since the bye. Last 1 1/2 qtrs the defence moved up, blocked the corridor and really put the pressure on the Pies, who buckled. As Harvey said, it was like a damn wall busting and they were powerless to stop it. Credit to the coach and players there. Game plans look alot better when they are allowed to function as they should, with players who are motivated to play to them. Without that game plans look horrible and non existent. We got a bit of both yesterday.


Good post, Scott too. I find it tiresome that people who have made up their minds feel they need to blame every bad thing on the coach and credit every good thing to the players despite the coach. Nothing's black and white, unless you're a filth supporter.

We've shown some creativity to work through an injury crisis - look how terrible Freo were the other day, and how Richmond have gone off a cliff since injuries arrived. I also suspect our defensive plans for the season that centered around the forward press were undone by the late "stand" rule change - again, Richmond also struggled with this.


Sensible post. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
sinbagger wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
An interesting observation I’ve had since Barker left is in relation to the baton being passed, by that I mean the emergence of a number of young players as leaders of this team, it may only be coincidence, but we have other evidence with our midfield now developing.

I know Teague has talked about it, but I’m really starting to see this team being driven by a few, namely Walsh, Weitering, Silvagni, Stocker in support of Cripps.

They all offer a hard edge and passion, but more importantly demanding the team to lift at times. I’m not sure I’ve seen this at Carlton since the early 90s.

Is this the core that will take us to the promised land? And how much has Teague had on influencing this change? Or am I seeing things?


It’s interesting how much we have not missed the leadership of Cripps, Murphy, Docherty and Casboult.


Sure is.

Its interesting how much leadership we have coming through.

Has leadership been suppressed or has it developed?

My take on it is the boys have taken on the responsibility of leadership with the opportunity.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2773
I am glad I am not the one presiding over this review!

It appears that we have shored up our defensive weakness from the first half of the year and the team structures do look different. And we have given Dow, SPS, Kennedy more of a go through the midfield.
And the stats clearly back this up, since the review was called.

Then again, we've played weaker teams and, as I suggested when the review was called, I am worried that our better performances in the second half of the season reflect playing worse teams (and lowered expectation) more so than we have genuinely addressed our weaknesses which will then reappear under the greater pressure of the better teams.

I hope that those who are making the big calls in this review can see through the fog and make solid recommendations.
I guess the remaining 5 rounds will provide a clearer picture:

We simply must beat the Kangaroos and Gold Coast.
St Kilda and GWS are toss ups - if we have genuinely improved, I'd expect us to win these two games.
Port Adelaide - again, if we have improved our defensive setup, we should be in this game to our eyeballs, albeit I would not be expecting to win.

So, in terms of assessing where we are at re the review:
Bogie = 2 wins or less
Par = 3 wins
Birdie = 4 wins
Eagle = 5 wins

It would be hard to argue the case against Teague if we win 4 or more of the remaining games.
With 3 wins, I could argue a case for or against.
2 wins or less, and I would be surprised if Teague remains in charge next year.
(The wildcard is if Clarkson is available or if the hierarchy already prefers a proven coach like Ross Lyon to take the helm...).

Glad its not me making the call!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:43 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
17th Premiership wrote:
I am glad I am not the one presiding over this review!

It appears that we have shored up our defensive weakness from the first half of the year and the team structures do look different. And we have given Dow, SPS, Kennedy more of a go through the midfield.
And the stats clearly back this up, since the review was called.

Then again, we've played weaker teams and, as I suggested when the review was called, I am worried that our better performances in the second half of the season reflect playing worse teams (and lowered expectation) more so than we have genuinely addressed our weaknesses which will then reappear under the greater pressure of the better teams.

I hope that those who are making the big calls in this review can see through the fog and make solid recommendations.
I guess the remaining 5 rounds will provide a clearer picture:

We simply must beat the Kangaroos and Gold Coast.
St Kilda and GWS are toss ups - if we have genuinely improved, I'd expect us to win these two games.
Port Adelaide - again, if we have improved our defensive setup, we should be in this game to our eyeballs, albeit I would not be expecting to win.

So, in terms of assessing where we are at re the review:
Bogie = 2 wins or less
Par = 3 wins
Birdie = 4 wins
Eagle = 5 wins

It would be hard to argue the case against Teague if we win 4 or more of the remaining games.
With 3 wins, I could argue a case for or against.
2 wins or less, and I would be surprised if Teague remains in charge next year.
(The wildcard is if Clarkson is available or if the hierarchy already prefers a proven coach like Ross Lyon to take the helm...).

Glad its not me making the call!


We lost to the pies , unaccountable and unacceptable
We lost to port , unaccountable and unacceptable
We lost to swans, ok considering the swans form
We lost to wc , worse loss of the year
We lost to gws , deplorable
We should be sitting were port is on the ladder

Double bogey and that’s only cause we chipped on from a sand bunker by playing freo here twice !

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:05 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10638
Collingwood, West Coast & GWS losses hurt the most.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:06 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 2203
Location: Melbourne
SurreyBlue wrote:
Collingwood, West Coast & GWS losses hurt the most.

Bulldogs as well :banghead:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:56 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
CFC8795 wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Collingwood, West Coast & GWS losses hurt the most.

Bulldogs as well :banghead:


We had the Swans by the short and curlies too.

One @#$%&! quarter in each of the abovementioned games blew our chance for a win.

The shame of unaccountable and unacceptable performances have tarnished the club and the hard work so many have put in to see our renaissance start this year.

Have to beat NM and GCS.

Redemption if we beat Saints and GWS.

Rebuild is working if we beat Port.

More importantly, if we win 4/5 then obviously Teague has been able to adjust to a well balanced game plan and train the players too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848
Bind Freddy can see that our defensive setup (and effort) has improved out of sight. Why it took 2/3rds of a season and a media pile-on for it to be addressed though should be the subject of a Royal Commission. Staggering.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:09 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2736
Sometimes changes and adjustments to game style take time and confidence to become habit and with a young group in terms of games together it can take even longer. Half the back 6 are new to playing together this year.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:28 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Big test for coach and coaching panel playing bottom team so devise and implement a plan to win with a very small team bereft of natural goal kickers


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Bind Freddy can see that our defensive setup (and effort) has improved out of sight. Why it took 2/3rds of a season and a media pile-on for it to be addressed though should be the subject of a Royal Commission. Staggering.

Exactly , he had a pre season to do this including late
Last year

But he waited for our season to be shot completely before he changed anything and put faith in players like dow , Kennedy , stocker , owies

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
sinbagger wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
An interesting observation I’ve had since Barker left is in relation to the baton being passed, by that I mean the emergence of a number of young players as leaders of this team, it may only be coincidence, but we have other evidence with our midfield now developing.

I know Teague has talked about it, but I’m really starting to see this team being driven by a few, namely Walsh, Weitering, Silvagni, Stocker in support of Cripps.

They all offer a hard edge and passion, but more importantly demanding the team to lift at times. I’m not sure I’ve seen this at Carlton since the early 90s.

Is this the core that will take us to the promised land? And how much has Teague had on influencing this change? Or am I seeing things?


It’s interesting how much we have not missed the leadership of Cripps, Murphy, Docherty and Casboult.

We are always going to miss cripps especially at his best , but the other you mentioned agree

Defence has been restructured without Docherty giving up goals and we have forwards who run both ways and learning to trust each other without mr selfish

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:59 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14882
Location: Sydney
azzablue wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Bind Freddy can see that our defensive setup (and effort) has improved out of sight. Why it took 2/3rds of a season and a media pile-on for it to be addressed though should be the subject of a Royal Commission. Staggering.

Exactly , he had a pre season to do this including late
Last year

But he waited for our season to be shot completely before he changed anything and put faith in players like dow , Kennedy , stocker , owies


Stocker and Owies have played 23 games between them this season. When exactly do you think our season was completely shot?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:07 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Round 1. :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:39 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18076
azzablue wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
An interesting observation I’ve had since Barker left is in relation to the baton being passed, by that I mean the emergence of a number of young players as leaders of this team, it may only be coincidence, but we have other evidence with our midfield now developing.

I know Teague has talked about it, but I’m really starting to see this team being driven by a few, namely Walsh, Weitering, Silvagni, Stocker in support of Cripps.

They all offer a hard edge and passion, but more importantly demanding the team to lift at times. I’m not sure I’ve seen this at Carlton since the early 90s.

Is this the core that will take us to the promised land? And how much has Teague had on influencing this change? Or am I seeing things?


It’s interesting how much we have not missed the leadership of Cripps, Murphy, Docherty and Casboult.

We are always going to miss cripps especially at his best , but the other you mentioned agree



Interesting view. Personally, I wouldn't have been upset if Cripps missed again this week. You find out a lot about your people when a vacuum is created. Especially when "dominant" personalities are missing. I really liked the "team" effort provided last week. It would have been interesting to see how Kennedy and Walsh performed in consecutive weeks without the dominant presence of Cripps.

I have an issue with Doc and Cripps leadership but I'm unsure of where the responsibility lies. How can your leaders demand and expect defensive intent and opponent accountability when they're the most unaccountable players on the field?
I don't believe it's sustainable or acceptable.
If the coaches allow or even facilitate their roles, they are doing the team a disservice.
Hopefully the collective buck the trend and garner the strength to vote a different way when the leadership positions are reviewed in the future

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:42 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
I accept it’s probably over for Teague now, that 3rd quarter was beyond dreadful.

One thing to say we we’d struggle with talls missing but to completely give up, well hard to see a way back from here.

I’ll preface this by saying I’d hold our nerve and not get rid of him.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Btw how can you activate the medical sub for a blood nose?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Don’t see how he survives this
Can’t lose that way against the bottom side
7 goals to nothing in 3rd quarter
Terrible method
Yes running out of players but today exemplified all difficulties we have had all season with the game plan


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