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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:00 pm 
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Garry Crane

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I agree that he is so talented as a crumbing forward,and we are so deficient in that area, that he should play in that position for the whole year. Even as a first year player, he played 19 games for 19 goals despite spending a lot of time on the bench.

An easy mistake to make is to assume that any decent midfielder can be trained to play as a crumbing forward. Yet as others have pointed out, we haven't had a lot of success in this area for the last two decades. One of my favourite players, Dean Rice, was unsuccessfully tried up forward before going back. Ronnie De Iulio had good pace and loved a goal, but he too failed. And yet, Chapman, Ablett, Motlop and the Burgoynes have reglarly ripped us apart.

Eddie is one of our best running shots at goal, as well as being a cool set shot for goal. More importantly, he knows where the goals are when he isn't facing them. He also doesn't need to straighten up for a shot at goal as he is comfortable snapping shots across his body. He has great pace, one-grab hands, good reflexes, a good footy brain, and is as slippery as. All up, he is a natural crumbing forward. And he also has the capacity to destroy the composure of defenders by nailing them with the ball as they look for targets.

But he can't be counted out of a midfield role. He's still young, and his endurance will improve. Brent Harvey, Peter Bell, and Nathan Brown, all started in the forward line. I remember reading an article about Nathan Brown in his early years. The author wondered whether he had the requisite endurance for the midfield or whether he would remain as a small forward. Wallace agreed that he had a small motor and acknowledged that he finished at the back of the field in the Bulldogs training runs. But he pointed out that when a football was near, his ability to give second, third and fourth efforts was as good as anybody's. Nathan Brown's midfield performances last year showed that assessment was spot on. I'm sure that Eddie also runs on the smell of a Sherrin football.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Eddie is Gun. has great skill, love is footwork, agility and evasive talent.
Given the opportunity he will definitely turn a game.
This guy can play centre, no problems there, just later in his career.
Let’s give him time to get acquainted with the tempo, physicality and culture of the big time.
Not easy for the young guys, it can just all go to their heads has been shown many times.
Ciao

:-D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:34 am 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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budzy wrote:
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
budzy wrote:
Tyrants, strong midfielders like Ricciuto, J.Brown, J.Johnson to name a few would murder Eddie next year.

Athorn, you’re right. AB & Eddie are two different players atm. 21yo(?) AB was given time to develop properly. 19yo Eddie has been running around off the bench through a disfunctional forward line in a shocking team with next to zero leadership. That’s hardly a proper development is it??? You and others have pidgeon holed Eddie as a small crumbing forward. I think that’s underselling him but that’s ok it’s your opinions.
I think he might be capable of greater things

Just my 4 cents worth (inflation).


Where do I pigeonhole him? Where do I say that?

Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
He is going to get games at Carlton as probably our only specialist pocket


TheGame, shortarse midgets like Libba & Brent Harvey did okay because they had "midfield smarts" ....something Eddie hasn't got yet but with decent time to learn he might end up better than those two...who knows??
Eddie's got enough natural talent now to do well at VFL level.


rec ognising a strength and a hole in our list is not pigeon-holing???!?!?!?

Thats like saying because your post is well written you should be a journalist?

Poxy logic budzy.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:37 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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again... what do you mean by "murder"?????

what about training to build his tank?

Brett Ratten..... played a lot in the back pocket, then graduated at a later age to a full-time midfield. Why couldn't THIS model be used for Betts??

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:22 am 
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Rod Ashman
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showbag wrote:
I think the issue is that giving him short bursts on the ball in 1sts won't increase his 'tank'. The thinking behind the arguement as i see it, is as one of one step back two steps forward. Play him in the Ants so as he can spend GREATER time on the ball than he would be allowed in the firsts. Thus giving him a better grounding as a midfielder.

By playing him in the firsts his role will predominatly be as a small forward, with the possibility of a short run on the ball ... but not to the extent that he could get in the bullants.

That's how i see the arguement. I'm happy for Eddie to play as a small forward in the firsts. If it is decided that he needs to be developed into a midfielder, then i would be happy with a small steps approach instead of 'fasttracking' him in the two's.


Exactly showbag, which is why I don't think he should be learning the midfield role in the ants. Because I don't think he should be played predominantly as a midfielder, however short stints as part of a rotation will allow him to still play an important role in our side up forward while slowly learning the midfield role, playing alongside & against some of the best in the comp. Yes he will get pushed off the ball easily because of his size however that is no different to Waite & T-Bird a few years ago & Simmo etc last year & will happen to Murphy this year. I think he is too valuable as a small crumbing forward to be stuck in the ants, particularly as we a crying out for a small forward.

Just my $1.50 worth (I've got expensive taste).

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:56 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Athorn,
Is it not YOUR opinion that Eddie predominantly will & should play the small forward role?

Tyrants,
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.

Yes of course training will help build his tank.

Ratts played in the reserves didn’t he? And he did have a lot more skill and class around him on the list which would’ve guided and helped him along the way to eventually make the transition.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Robert Walls
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he's too important to the team now to be playing in the twos.

if that costs him some time in fastracking him into a midfield then i guess we'll never know.

it's of my opinion that he has the ability to learn just a quickly with stints in the middle in the ones, than him carving up the VFL.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:05 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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budzy wrote:
Ratts played in the reserves didn’t he? And he did have a lot more skill and class around him on the list which would’ve guided and helped him along the way to eventually make the transition.


he played a lot at back pocket in 94, I think, and was in and out of the side in 93????

But, by round 1 1995, he was full-time midfield.

Quote:
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.


But what does that mean???? He will have fewer possessions than them? They're going to bump him hard and injure him?? He will be useless at stoppages?????

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:23 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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The Tyrant wrote:
Quote:
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.


But what does that mean???? He will have fewer possessions than them? They're going to bump him hard and injure him?? He will be useless at stoppages?????


What made you think of those scenarios??

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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budzy wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
Quote:
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.


But what does that mean???? He will have fewer possessions than them? They're going to bump him hard and injure him?? He will be useless at stoppages?????


What made you think of those scenarios??


Why do you ask?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:37 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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The Tyrant wrote:
budzy wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
Quote:
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.


But what does that mean???? He will have fewer possessions than them? They're going to bump him hard and injure him?? He will be useless at stoppages?????


What made you think of those scenarios??


Why do you ask?


Why not ask?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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budzy wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
budzy wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
Quote:
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.


But what does that mean???? He will have fewer possessions than them? They're going to bump him hard and injure him?? He will be useless at stoppages?????


What made you think of those scenarios??


Why do you ask?


Why not ask?


:wink: But seriously ... obviously Im asking the questions because I think your theory is based on jargonism believed to be real, and nothing actually real.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:52 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Betts was given a run briefly in the middle last year, and performed OK. I think that process will continue, so there's no need to drop him back to the Bullants, unless his overall form warrants omission.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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JackWorrall wrote:
Betts was given a run briefly in the middle last year, and performed OK. I think that process will continue, so there's no need to drop him back to the Bullants, unless his overall form warrants omission.


ditto

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:01 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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The Tyrant wrote:
budzy wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
budzy wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
Quote:
The competitions premier midfielders (and there are a lot of them) will be physically, mentally and skillfully too good for Eddie this coming season. Eddie’s a 19yo kid.


But what does that mean???? He will have fewer possessions than them? They're going to bump him hard and injure him?? He will be useless at stoppages?????


What made you think of those scenarios??


Why do you ask?


Why not ask?


:wink: But seriously ... obviously Im asking the questions because I think your theory is based on jargonism believed to be real, and nothing actually real.



Quote:
He will have fewer possessions than them?
That's real.
Quote:
They're going to bump him hard and injure him??
That's real.
Quote:
He will be useless at stoppages?????
That's real.

You're subconsciously answering your own questions.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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That proves nothing, budzy, and you know it. Footy isnt' as simple as just those questions.

Are there stoppages in the forward line? Is there contact in them?

Is your point that he's too fragile for AFL contact, or that contact is iterative and wears him down slowly like in Mortal Combat, or is it ONLY about his fitness levels???

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:39 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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The Tyrant wrote:
That proves nothing, budzy, and you know it. Footy isnt' as simple as just those questions.

Are there stoppages in the forward line? Is there contact in them?

Is your point that he's too fragile for AFL contact, or that contact is iterative and wears him down slowly like in Mortal Combat, or is it ONLY about his fitness levels???


Would you agree that midfielders are MORE susceptible to physical contact than crumbing forward pockets?

Would you agree that midfielders require MORE specialized individual & set play skills than forward pockets?

I KNOW you would agree that midfielders require higher fitness levels than forward pockets.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Edddie will take a few years to be an absolute midfielder... but in the meantime he is still the most skillful player at the club.. with absolute freakish ability to do the almost impossible.
I think we will all see alot more this year.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:44 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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budzy wrote:
Would you agree that midfielders are MORE susceptible to physical contact than crumbing forward pockets?


There are more instances of it..... but are footballers like mortal combat characters, where every little contact dimishes their power? or are you more afraid he's more likely to get cleaned up in one huge hit if in the midfield?

Quote:
Would you agree that midfielders require MORE specialized individual & set play skills than forward pockets?


are you implying that Eddie lacks a variety of skills, or is a slow learner?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:02 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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The Tyrant wrote:
There are more instances of it..... but are footballers like mortal combat characters, where every little contact dimishes their power? or are you more afraid he's more likely to get cleaned up in one huge hit if in the midfield?

I'm sure you'd agree that the constant physical demands of playing midfield is far greater than that of playing forward pocket...yes?

The Tyrant wrote:
are you implying that Eddie lacks a variety of skills, or is a slow learner?

At 19 years of age of course he lacks the variety of skills other more experienced and proven midfielders have. Would you agree?

I hope he's not a slow learner.

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