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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:47 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:16 am
Posts: 31
Let the RUTHLESS cull begin.....

Starts with Teague advising Murph & Betts they are retired...Their mentoring and experience will be used from the sidelines.

Burley up Casbolt, E.Curnow, McGovern, Plowman, one of Gibbons/SPS/Fisher and see what bites.

Clean the bottom of the bird cage


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:05 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
david31 wrote:
Three things I’d like to see (in order of priority) this off season and pre season:

(1) Teague and leaders setting genuine standards and non-negotiables that must be complied with.

Let’s start with going when it’s your time to go, sticking tackles, 100% commitment. The time for being mates and accepting crap has to end. Teague must hold McGovern, Murph and Eddie to the same standards as everyone else. If McGovern isn’t putting in effort and JSOS is busting his arse, then play JSOS. If Murphy won’t tackle, don’t play him. Cripps, Doc, Weiters and Walsh need to get in the face of their mates and demand more. If we continue to accept crap, we won’t be going anywhere quickly. Teague was tough as nails as a player and I reckon he’s fed up with the fade outs so hopefully he really puts it to the group over summer.

(2) Recruit and develop quality mids.

We’re severely lacking in the midfield where games are won and lost. Look at Williams for a midfield role. Get creative to pry an A grader from another club. Develop our young mids to actually play midfield next season. The talent is there but they must be developed. If we retain our first round pick, get the best available midfielder.

(3) Fill our holes on the list.

Small forward. Back up key defender. Another small defender. Try for Saad. Look at a Lonie type as a small forward. Go to the state leagues to find talent in these areas.


There's a fair bit of recycled stuff in that post but the highlighted bit is exactly what we really need. I posted elsewhere that Walsh will become the anvil on which the new team standards are forged. He will drive Cripps and Weiters and Doc by sheer example, even though he is the baby of the group. Make that the leadership group; keep it small. If you listen to Sellers McClure, he says it a lot. Back in the day, they partied hard and worked hard. Well those days are gone but the other thing he says is that if you didn't go when it was your turn or you didn't meet the on-field standards, you copped it from the players long before the coach ever had the chance to get to you. And then you had to stand there and take it while Parko or Walls gave you both barrels in front of your mates who weren't your mates when it came to that.

Keogh makes a lot of sense in between his endless harping about SOS and this point is something he is big on. There are too many softcocks in the team at the moment. Cripps is one of them. Not in his on-field stuff. Nobody could ever accuse him of that but if you look at him at half time last game, he was obviously personally disappointed but he wasn't bollocking his team. Neither was Doc. Or Weitering, both of whom give it their 90% every week and both of whom made a few errors during the quarter. Teague said in his presser that Walsh was beating himself up for his efforts. Walsh! Easily our best player on the night. He is still too young to be ripping shreds off his team mates but he is the one to do it when the last of the dinosaurs has left. And when Cottrell has fifty games under his belt, I can't see him as being timid either. That's why I would keep him. He's a rough nut who is playing for the club of his boyhood. If anybody is going to die wondering, it won't be him.

I disagree with Keogh that we are miles away. Good on him for his passion but he is a glass half empty type of poster by his own admission. I lean more to the Bondi camp because I'm a glass half full type of person. It makes it harder to swallow when Keogh is right of course and this year he is right. We have made little if any progress on the ladder, whether it is SOS's fault or not. Even though I predicted we would finish 12th on the appropriate thread, I saw enough during the season to realise we should have been playing finals. So now I am disappointed we didn't. We have the bulk of the list in-waiting. We have a shit game plan that doesn't allow enough flexibility to shore up the defense during play when we are getting flogged but Teague has been able to stop the rot between quarters. That says something. The game plan will be tweaked. It's what we don't have that's the issue and that's where we get back to Keogh's soft cocks. Or maybe the on-field leaders aren't allowed. Who knows? Regardless, when we are leaking, SOMEBODY has to just make the call. Slow the game. Move somebody down back for five minutes. Swap Levi and Willo. Something. Anything.
James Hird might not be our favourite person here on TC but if you look at his playing days, he had the capacity to insert himself where he was most needed. Kouta was the same. Dusty Martin just does it at Richmond. Patrick Dangerfield at Geelong. Fingers in dikes before the floodgates open.

Anyway, we have 5 months to sort this out. We prune the unproductive wood. We graft buds and wood from other varieties and let the new combination of strong branches bear the fruit.


Great post BS.

Totally agree with the highlighted stuff.

I admire those who are more intraverted who let their actions do the talking, but there's hardly been any inspirational stuff from our captains this year, so where does the inspiration come from apart from Walsh?

They all seem so nice and well behaved. I hope its a bit different behind closed doors.

Level of accountability needs addressing. Those 5 goals in a row kicked against us thoughout the season needed to be quelled on field by leaders. It didn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6439
I have advocated that some blokes get missed by the draft system or get picked and are not simply ready for AFL. They are late developing players. We sadly have missed picking up good players from the lower leagues.
I can only think of Duigan and Gibbons
Same Rowe was half decent
Certainly SOS has largely ignored the lower leagues during his 5 drafts.
Gibbons I can’t think of anyone off hand
With the global pandemic the NEAFL and VFL have not happened
The WAFL has had half a year
The SANFL plays 14 rounds

With List sizes yet to be announced and what number picks we have in the Drafts an unknown due to ladder positions and all the other shit that goes on I would get the ball rolling and to show a few others that I’m not all hot air
So here are some names to consider if you give a semblance of a shit

Sam Fisher 22 Swan Districts mid
Nearly got a guernsey with us possibly the best player in WAFL has improved
Perfect age
Jackson Ramsay 25 E Perth mid
Injuries [REDACTED] him at Collingwood been terrific at East Perth
Jess Turner SD 24 mid
Hard running a real goer who keeps getting better
Angus Scott EF 25 mid
Improved every year
Noah Storm 24 South Freo key def
Big guys take time. Blossomed in one of the leading teams this year
Michael Randall Peel 20 mid
Looks a good prospect
Luke Partington 23 Glenelg mid
Probably the best player not playing AFL His pro wrestling debut didn’t help his chances last year. Still would have picked him up. Has the physical tools and a bit of mongrel
Sam Colquhoun 25 Sturt ( mid)
Improved a lot this year
James Battersly 24 Sturt mid
Ditto
Cameron McGree South Adelaide 21 ruck
Athletic big guy really coming on big guys take time
Cole Gerloff Norwood mid/ for 21
Still young has big upside

There you go BV and Jonny and BB
Some names
I would definitely have Partington and Fisher on our list
And would rookie McGree as we need 3 ruckman
All fit the age profile of maturing late bloomers address our midfield issues
More to come
So BV
Where’s your plan or even part of it


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18044
You've been bagging the club for years. I don't want your crystal balling that will take 5 years to assess. Where's your plans for last year, the year before. That's where your credentials can be verified.
All i've heard is you blowing smoke up McAdams bum and telling us how we missed out on him and Krueger. 12 games between them in 2 years. That's really going to help us!
We picked the best VFL player the same off season and he's been best 22 since. But you don't give credit where it's due. The same as you bag Jack Martin as being soft and lazy yet McAdam is the second coming. Anyone who has any idea about the game can see how hard Jack Martin is. And again on the weekend, Jack Martin 6 tackles, McAdam zero.
Martin averaging 13.6 pressure acts per game and 3.2 tackles.
McAdam 11.3 pressure acts, 2.9 tackles. Both the same age yet Martin is lazy. :?

So asking for my plan is deflecting as usual because you're the one telling us the club has no idea and you're the one who has the clue.
I'm not the one telling everyone how I know better than the club and every other poster.
As for throwing up the names of a number of second rate players running around in the WAFL or SANFL and suggesting they're our answer. Give me a break. We've seen the mediocre performances from your previous selections.

My plan. Hit free agency hard. 2 restricted free agents in Williams and Viney. Plus I'd see what Gaff is doing. Unrestricted free agent. If he wants to return to Melbourne, he's an option because dollars aren't the key. It will be about whether he wants to come home or not. None of those will cost us one draft pick. If Viney doesn't commit, I'd throw our first 2 picks at Port for Wines.
I'd hit up Ben Keays from Adelaide as a hard head to replace Ed in the next couple of years. He's currently playing on a rookie contract at Adelaide and I like the way he approaches his footy.

So forget the dregs in the lower leagues. This is our time to get class in through free agency and to take advantage of our key position quality.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6747
Blue Vain wrote:
You've been bagging the club for years. I don't want your crystal balling that will take 5 years to assess. Where's your plans for last year, the year before. That's where your credentials can be verified.
All i've heard is you blowing smoke up McAdams bum and telling us how we missed out on him and Krueger. 12 games between them in 2 years. That's really going to help us!
We picked the best VFL player the same off season and he's been best 22 since. But you don't give credit where it's due. The same as you bag Jack Martin as being soft and lazy yet McAdam is the second coming. Anyone who has any idea about the game can see how hard Jack Martin is. And again on the weekend, Jack Martin 6 tackles, McAdam zero.
Martin averaging 13.6 pressure acts per game and 3.2 tackles.
McAdam 11.3 pressure acts, 2.9 tackles. Both the same age yet Martin is lazy. :?

So asking for my plan is deflecting as usual because you're the one telling us the club has no idea and you're the one who has the clue.
I'm not the one telling everyone how I know better than the club and every other poster.
As for throwing up the names of a number of second rate players running around in the WAFL or SANFL and suggesting they're our answer. Give me a break. We've seen the mediocre performances from your previous selections.

My plan. Hit free agency hard. 2 restricted free agents in Williams and Viney. Plus I'd see what Gaff is doing. Unrestricted free agent. If he wants to return to Melbourne, he's an option because dollars aren't the key. It will be about whether he wants to come home or not. None of those will cost us one draft pick. If Viney doesn't commit, I'd throw our first 2 picks at Port for Wines.
I'd hit up Ben Keays from Adelaide as a hard head to replace Ed in the next couple of years. He's currently playing on a rookie contract at Adelaide and I like the way he approaches his footy.


So forget the dregs in the lower leagues. This is our time to get class in through free agency and to take advantage of our key position quality.

I don't really know anything about Ben Keays, but the rest is on point.
Mature mid, mature mid, mature mid, mature mid.
Getting Gaff as a leader would be good for the whole midfield too.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6439
You and I will agree to disagree
That will obviously go on forever
Point is we have
4 finals in 21 years
3 really because Essendon* took drugs
No PF which IMO is the bench mark in 21 years
How many spoons?
How many bottom six finishes
How many people sacked while the board remains protected
How many jobs for the boys
We are the worst performed team in 21 years

So that’s why I bag the club
You can bag me for that
That’s fine

But it’s obvious you live in the past and you just don’t get what is needed for success
I’m entitled to that opinion about you judging by the rubbish you write

As for Martin his effort in the first quarter that lead to McCarthys goal was unacceptable
I’m sure Simmo mayhave pulled out of a contest or two but it wasn’t in his mindset and I can’t remember him ever doing it and I saw about 80% of his 342 games
Martin does it too often
You can’t get away with that in finals
Teague needs to sort that out because softies have been too prevalent at this club for too long

21 years with nothing to show
Surely some things arnt right
But if you think it’s all going to be fine with a couple of free agents your entitled to your opinion
I think your wrong
But I said I would give you names
There they are
By the way
Do you know anything about them


Last edited by keogh on Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:34 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10613
I like the idea of Viney and Williams. One tough nut inside to assist and one classy/tough on the wing!! FA - even better!!!
Not sure on Wines, as his leg speed concerns me, in particularly adding to our current group.
I'd love a Gaff and then a Kelly for the additional outside run.
Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year. :gift:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14736
Location: Sydney
Apologies if it's been explained elsewhere, but I'm really in the dark about this whole list reduction thing. Why are the AFL looking to do this, is it due to COVID costs? To run a seniors team and a reserves team, you need at least 50 playing staff, presumably, so if lists are reduced to 36-40 then a lot of those in the reserves are... what?... free agents? Presumably ineligible to play in the seniors even if they improve out of sight and become the best in the team? This is where living in NRL territory leaves me a bit clueless. I'd appreciate any background on this aspect of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18044
keogh wrote:
So that’s why I bag the club
You can bag me for that
That’s fine



See, that's where you're confused. The club isn't beyond criticism and they well and truly deserve it.
But anyone can criticise. I'd rather read solutions. Real solutions. 95% of your posts are "the board is shit", "the team is shit", "the list management is shit", "player, X, Y and Z are soft"

Where's the solutions? Anyone can repeatedly bag the club. The posts of value are the ones that provide solutions. You have some good ideas but they're drowned out by the negativity.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:41 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
players i would use in trade scenario , sps,kennedy and maybe LOB ,time to go fishing and lets see who bites


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 17525
Location: Left Cuckistan
Phenomenal effort to get across and out and about to watch WAFL games in the midst of closed borders. Above and beyond again Keogh.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18044
jamespul65 wrote:
players i would use in trade scenario , sps,kennedy and maybe LOB ,time to go fishing and lets see who bites



What would you realistically expect to get? 2 will be lucky to be on our list in a weeks time.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:45 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6439
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
So that’s why I bag the club
You can bag me for that
That’s fine



See, that's where you're confused. The club isn't beyond criticism and they well and truly deserve it.
But anyone can criticise. I'd rather read solutions. Real solutions. 95% of your posts are "the board is shit", "the team is shit", "the list management is shit", "player, X, Y and Z are soft"

Where's the solutions? Anyone can repeatedly bag the club. The posts of value are the ones that provide solutions. You have some good ideas but they're drowned out by the negativity.


How much more real solution do you want with names I suggested
You know that some people grow up later than others
Can apply to footballers
I’ll ask again
Do you know anything about any of the players mentioned?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:46 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6439
Heavs wrote:
Phenomenal effort to get across and out and about to watch WAFL games in the midst of closed borders. Above and beyond again Keogh.


I live In Busselton :razz:
I assume you know where that is


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2886
keogh wrote:
I have advocated that some blokes get missed by the draft system or get picked and are not simply ready for AFL. They are late developing players. We sadly have missed picking up good players from the lower leagues.
I can only think of Duigan and Gibbons
Same Rowe was half decent
Certainly SOS has largely ignored the lower leagues during his 5 drafts.
Gibbons I can’t think of anyone off hand
With the global pandemic the NEAFL and VFL have not happened
The WAFL has had half a year
The SANFL plays 14 rounds

With List sizes yet to be announced and what number picks we have in the Drafts an unknown due to ladder positions and all the other shit that goes on I would get the ball rolling and to show a few others that I’m not all hot air
So here are some names to consider if you give a semblance of a shit

Sam Fisher 22 Swan Districts mid
Nearly got a guernsey with us possibly the best player in WAFL has improved
Perfect age
Jackson Ramsay 25 E Perth mid
Injuries [REDACTED] him at Collingwood been terrific at East Perth
Jess Turner SD 24 mid
Hard running a real goer who keeps getting better
Angus Scott EF 25 mid
Improved every year
Noah Storm 24 South Freo key def
Big guys take time. Blossomed in one of the leading teams this year
Michael Randall Peel 20 mid
Looks a good prospect
Luke Partington 23 Glenelg mid
Probably the best player not playing AFL His pro wrestling debut didn’t help his chances last year. Still would have picked him up. Has the physical tools and a bit of mongrel
Sam Colquhoun 25 Sturt ( mid)
Improved a lot this year
James Battersly 24 Sturt mid
Ditto
Cameron McGree South Adelaide 21 ruck
Athletic big guy really coming on big guys take time
Cole Gerloff Norwood mid/ for 21
Still young has big upside

There you go BV and Jonny and BB
Some names
I would definitely have Partington and Fisher on our list
And would rookie McGree as we need 3 ruckman
All fit the age profile of maturing late bloomers address our midfield issues
More to come
So BV
Where’s your plan or even part of it


Who’s the quickest of the mids and do any have elite foot skills?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 17525
Location: Left Cuckistan
keogh wrote:
Heavs wrote:
Phenomenal effort to get across and out and about to watch WAFL games in the midst of closed borders. Above and beyond again Keogh.


I live In Busselton :razz:
I assume you know where that is


Got me. I thought you were still in Upper Torquay.

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Left wing moralists
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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 35947
Location: Half back flank
Well, may I ask what you expected to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically...?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18044
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
So that’s why I bag the club
You can bag me for that
That’s fine



See, that's where you're confused. The club isn't beyond criticism and they well and truly deserve it.
But anyone can criticise. I'd rather read solutions. Real solutions. 95% of your posts are "the board is shit", "the team is shit", "the list management is shit", "player, X, Y and Z are soft"

Where's the solutions? Anyone can repeatedly bag the club. The posts of value are the ones that provide solutions. You have some good ideas but they're drowned out by the negativity.


How much more real solution do you want with names I suggested
You know that some people grow up later than others
Can apply to footballers
I’ll ask again
Do you know anything about any of the players mentioned?


You named a heap but said you'd list 2.
Partington and Fisher. I watched Fisher play a lot of games for the NB's. Hard worker, can kick a goal but not enough tricks. I would have considered him for as rookie spot but he would be a depth player at best. Partington the same.
Colquhuon is the one that interested me early. He can find the ball and had smarts but like Partington, he's small for a midfielder.
All are quality state league players but they're not our future. Like Gibbons. He's probably better than all three but when our team is at it's best, I doubt he'll be getting a regular game.

We are at the time in our development where we need to top up. Like St Kilda did last year and Brisbane the year before. Our KP quality is as good as most. We just need to get more quality into the midfield. Getting off-cuts from the WAFL and SANFL wont go close.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:14 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6439
CK95 wrote:
Well, may I ask what you expected to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically...?

:grin:
That was funny
My hearing is fine by the away
Obviously my judgement of a footballer according to BV is totally [REDACTED]


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:19 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24652
Location: Kaloyasena
CK95 wrote:
Well, may I ask what you expected to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically...?






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