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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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That’s ridiculous to wipe out Stocker. He is EXACTLY what we need. Tough hard midfielder.

Get rid of Murphy and Levi.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
BlueJean wrote:
That’s ridiculous to wipe out Stocker. He is EXACTLY what we need. Tough hard

Who can actually hit a target too


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:13 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
BlueJean wrote:
That’s ridiculous to wipe out Stocker. He is EXACTLY what we need. Tough hard midfielder.
.


He is exactly what we need.

Macreadie has starred when he was given an opportunity preseason 2018 and has been injured since.

Came back and looked good 3 weeks ago.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Good to see I have some supporters re stocker.

I just can’t see a player such as Murphy getting a game, when our coach asks his team to be ruthless.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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On what planet are we going to de-list Plowman? The treatment he gets around here is a disgrace. :D


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
Don't believe we need wholesale changes.

Out:
Simmo
Kreuz
Lang
Moore
Goddard
Phillips
Owies

IN:
7, 26,44,80

Trade pick 7 for established player with potential pick coming back
3x picks in compromised draft and hope for the best.
1x FA
2x DFA

If we can get 2x FA + 1 DFA even better


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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Dodo27 wrote:
We do need another List Clean up in order to go forward, but hopefully not making the same mistakes of recruiting players who end up adding nothing to our progress. My list of de-listings include:

** L. O;Brien: At 21, he has not fired a shot and does not seem to have it at AFL level. No point in persisting with him

** L.Stocker: Waste of a pick. Injuries and has done nothing so far. No impact.

** D.Lang: Played one massive Game for Geelong and we all thought he is going to be a Star. Big Fail

** E.Betts: He is really Cooked. Does not score many goals anymore and has little impact. I think they will give him one more year.

** H. Macreadie: Below Average player. Needs to go

** C.Polson: I am not a big fan of him. He looks too small and an average player at best. Some might disagree.

** B.Silvagni : I have doubts that he is ever going to develop into a good player like his old man. I think one Silvagni is enough to keep

** H.Goodard: Liability. Move on

** C:Moore: Liability. Move on

** Kruzer & Simpson : Retired


On their Last Chance- Give them one more year:

** Dow: Give him one more pre-season to get bigger and put him in the middle. See if he comes good

** McGovern: He is as good as gone, but rumors are he will be tried back next year and given one final chance

** J.Silvangi: Injuries caught up with him, but he is becoming an Average player with not much to give. One more year and he is Out

** L:Plowman: Frustrating player. Wouldn't be surprised if they de-list him



The other guys are in their 2nd & 3rd years... give them time to Develop and see if they come good.


LOB contracted, won’t be delisted
Stocker the same

Plowman 3 year contract and wtf no way known you’d delist.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 2521
Walsh wrote:
Don't believe we need wholesale changes.

Out:
Simmo
Kreuz
Lang
Moore
Goddard
Phillips
Owies

IN:
7, 26,44,80

Trade pick 7 for established player with potential pick coming back
3x picks in compromised draft and hope for the best.
1x FA
2x DFA

If we can get 2x FA + 1 DFA even better


Pending what list sizes look like next year, you’d need to cull a few more than that. That’s only 3 from the primary list with 7 primary list players coming in.

From the primary list Kreuzer, Simpson, Lang & Finbar are certainties to be gone.
Macreadie, BSOS & Polson seem likely to go as well. That’s 7. Any more than that and the decisions will be harder to make.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848
didn't we just sign Plowman for 3 years?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Narre Warren VIC
Where is Stocker anyways? why hasn't he played any games this year???

I couldn't find him on the Injury list :confused: :confused:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Dodo27 wrote:
Where is Stocker anyways? why hasn't he played any games this year???

I couldn't find him on the Injury list :confused: :confused:


left the hub due to personal reasons

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:06 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Posts: 3073
I don't want a lot of changes ... just the obvious ones ... Moore, Goddard, Polson, Macreadie, ODwyer. Along with Kruez and Simpson.

HOWEVER ... talk is that the AFL will introduce large cuts to playing lists. I even have heard this could be as low as 36 (we currently have 46). In this case we would have to lose 13 to pick up 3. Players like BSOS, Stocker, Kennedy, Cottrell, O'Brien etc would have to go. It could get very ugly.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4629
GreatEx wrote:
On what planet are we going to de-list Plowman? The treatment he gets around here is a disgrace. :D
:thumbsup:

I'm starting to think it's a joke I've missed...

Go Blues

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:18 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4629
BigBlueWave wrote:
I don't want a lot of changes ... just the obvious ones ... Moore, Goddard, Polson, Macreadie, ODwyer. Along with Kruez and Simpson.

HOWEVER ... talk is that the AFL will introduce large cuts to playing lists. I even have heard this could be as low as 36 (we currently have 46). In this case we would have to lose 13 to pick up 3. Players like BSOS, Stocker, Kennedy, Cottrell, O'Brien etc would have to go. It could get very ugly.
VFL side time...??

I wonder how many teams used more THIS year with shortened games and quarters...

I keep hearing about smaller lists, but there would be a lot to work out... Let alone nothing's been announced yet

Go Blues

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:46 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
MacReadie is one I would keep for another year or so. Jones will be on the wrong side of 30 soon and who will replace him. McGovern?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:32 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
david31 wrote:
Three things I’d like to see (in order of priority) this off season and pre season:

(1) Teague and leaders setting genuine standards and non-negotiables that must be complied with.

Let’s start with going when it’s your time to go, sticking tackles, 100% commitment. The time for being mates and accepting crap has to end. Teague must hold McGovern, Murph and Eddie to the same standards as everyone else. If McGovern isn’t putting in effort and JSOS is busting his arse, then play JSOS. If Murphy won’t tackle, don’t play him. Cripps, Doc, Weiters and Walsh need to get in the face of their mates and demand more. If we continue to accept crap, we won’t be going anywhere quickly. Teague was tough as nails as a player and I reckon he’s fed up with the fade outs so hopefully he really puts it to the group over summer.

(2) Recruit and develop quality mids.

We’re severely lacking in the midfield where games are won and lost. Look at Williams for a midfield role. Get creative to pry an A grader from another club. Develop our young mids to actually play midfield next season. The talent is there but they must be developed. If we retain our first round pick, get the best available midfielder.

(3) Fill our holes on the list.

Small forward. Back up key defender. Another small defender. Try for Saad. Look at a Lonie type as a small forward. Go to the state leagues to find talent in these areas.


There's a fair bit of recycled stuff in that post but the highlighted bit is exactly what we really need. I posted elsewhere that Walsh will become the anvil on which the new team standards are forged. He will drive Cripps and Weiters and Doc by sheer example, even though he is the baby of the group. Make that the leadership group; keep it small. If you listen to Sellers McClure, he says it a lot. Back in the day, they partied hard and worked hard. Well those days are gone but the other thing he says is that if you didn't go when it was your turn or you didn't meet the on-field standards, you copped it from the players long before the coach ever had the chance to get to you. And then you had to stand there and take it while Parko or Walls gave you both barrels in front of your mates who weren't your mates when it came to that.

Keogh makes a lot of sense in between his endless harping about SOS and this point is something he is big on. There are too many softcocks in the team at the moment. Cripps is one of them. Not in his on-field stuff. Nobody could ever accuse him of that but if you look at him at half time last game, he was obviously personally disappointed but he wasn't bollocking his team. Neither was Doc. Or Weitering, both of whom give it their 90% every week and both of whom made a few errors during the quarter. Teague said in his presser that Walsh was beating himself up for his efforts. Walsh! Easily our best player on the night. He is still too young to be ripping shreds off his team mates but he is the one to do it when the last of the dinosaurs has left. And when Cottrell has fifty games under his belt, I can't see him as being timid either. That's why I would keep him. He's a rough nut who is playing for the club of his boyhood. If anybody is going to die wondering, it won't be him.

I disagree with Keogh that we are miles away. Good on him for his passion but he is a glass half empty type of poster by his own admission. I lean more to the Bondi camp because I'm a glass half full type of person. It makes it harder to swallow when Keogh is right of course and this year he is right. We have made little if any progress on the ladder, whether it is SOS's fault or not. Even though I predicted we would finish 12th on the appropriate thread, I saw enough during the season to realise we should have been playing finals. So now I am disappointed we didn't. We have the bulk of the list in-waiting. We have a shit game plan that doesn't allow enough flexibility to shore up the defense during play when we are getting flogged but Teague has been able to stop the rot between quarters. That says something. The game plan will be tweaked. It's what we don't have that's the issue and that's where we get back to Keogh's soft cocks. Or maybe the on-field leaders aren't allowed. Who knows? Regardless, when we are leaking, SOMEBODY has to just make the call. Slow the game. Move somebody down back for five minutes. Swap Levi and Willo. Something. Anything.
James Hird might not be our favourite person here on TC but if you look at his playing days, he had the capacity to insert himself where he was most needed. Kouta was the same. Dusty Martin just does it at Richmond. Patrick Dangerfield at Geelong. Fingers in dikes before the floodgates open.

Anyway, we have 5 months to sort this out. We prune the unproductive wood. We graft buds and wood from other varieties and let the new combination of strong branches bear the fruit.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:37 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
GreatEx wrote:
On what planet are we going to de-list Plowman? The treatment he gets around here is a disgrace. :D

Week after wek he keeps his opponent below their usual numbers.
Plays tall and small.
He just gets on with it.
Yes, he makes the odd mistake in an area where mistakes get punished.
Dusty got the better of him but one of the goals was a clear free kick missed by the umpire. No shame in getting bettered by dusty.

Ask Cameron how he went the other day.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:26 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: dudley!!!
Cazzesman wrote:
SPS Trade
Dow Trade
McGovern Trade

Cut
O'Brien
Polson
O'Dwyer
Goddard
Moore

No idea about their progress
Owies
Philip
Phillips
Ramsey
B SOS
Honey

Retired
Simmo
Kruez

I think with that lot you can afford to keep McCreadie & Cottrell.

Based on SFA viewing and a gut feel. If Clayton Oliver is get able, throw the kitchen sink at him.

Regards Cazzesman


Cazz, seeing as you are an ex-recruiter, i know you see things in players that a lot of us dont see. thus i find it really interesting that you think we should cut obrien free

can you give a bit of insight into why you think this?, particularly as sos thought he was a top ten pick? genuine question, not having a dig

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:35 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: dudley!!!
keogh wrote:
You talk about a step by step process for success
I don’t get to Princess Park much because I live in WA but there used to be pictures hanging up of players that have 200 or more games for the club
Simmo and Scotland yep

But amongst them, Big Nick, my name sake and many others is
Houlihan and Whitnall from the last 20 years
Gibbs and Murphy marginally better but soft players

Sums up the club’s culture over the last 20 years to me

If you make a Grand Final both teams have got star players.
But every year it’s the best bottom 6 that win it for you
Time and time again
Year after year

I would kill to have Baker from Richmond on our list.
Tough can handle pressure because that’s what finals footy is all about

I normally don’t get really angry
I mean really angry but I did last night
Yes my posts are negative
But I don’t get really pissed off
Given the occasion that second quarter effort from the team was disgusting
I repeat BB
Absolutely disgusting
And it’s being going on for 20 years hence some of thenames on the honour role

The best thing last night was Teague blowin a fuse
Hopefully he has had enough because he was one of the toughest I have seen on a footy field

Hopefully he will hold soft cocks to account and they can rot in reserves on 700 gorillas Or god knows how many games they have played

I bang on List Management and don’t worry I’ll have those names for you soon enough

But you say a step by step approach
Fix the culture first
That’s Teagues job


you drive me nuts sometimes keogh. but thats a great post - particularly about the 200 gamers. you dont get to 200 games in afl without some sembelence of toughness, but aside from simmo, our recent 200 gamers have been all too nice

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:44 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 2939
Location: dudley!!!
Blue Sombrero wrote:
david31 wrote:
Three things I’d like to see (in order of priority) this off season and pre season:

(1) Teague and leaders setting genuine standards and non-negotiables that must be complied with.

Let’s start with going when it’s your time to go, sticking tackles, 100% commitment. The time for being mates and accepting crap has to end. Teague must hold McGovern, Murph and Eddie to the same standards as everyone else. If McGovern isn’t putting in effort and JSOS is busting his arse, then play JSOS. If Murphy won’t tackle, don’t play him. Cripps, Doc, Weiters and Walsh need to get in the face of their mates and demand more. If we continue to accept crap, we won’t be going anywhere quickly. Teague was tough as nails as a player and I reckon he’s fed up with the fade outs so hopefully he really puts it to the group over summer.

(2) Recruit and develop quality mids.

We’re severely lacking in the midfield where games are won and lost. Look at Williams for a midfield role. Get creative to pry an A grader from another club. Develop our young mids to actually play midfield next season. The talent is there but they must be developed. If we retain our first round pick, get the best available midfielder.

(3) Fill our holes on the list.

Small forward. Back up key defender. Another small defender. Try for Saad. Look at a Lonie type as a small forward. Go to the state leagues to find talent in these areas.


There's a fair bit of recycled stuff in that post but the highlighted bit is exactly what we really need. I posted elsewhere that Walsh will become the anvil on which the new team standards are forged. He will drive Cripps and Weiters and Doc by sheer example, even though he is the baby of the group. Make that the leadership group; keep it small. If you listen to Sellers McClure, he says it a lot. Back in the day, they partied hard and worked hard. Well those days are gone but the other thing he says is that if you didn't go when it was your turn or you didn't meet the on-field standards, you copped it from the players long before the coach ever had the chance to get to you. And then you had to stand there and take it while Parko or Walls gave you both barrels in front of your mates who weren't your mates when it came to that.

Keogh makes a lot of sense in between his endless harping about SOS and this point is something he is big on. There are too many softcocks in the team at the moment. Cripps is one of them. Not in his on-field stuff. Nobody could ever accuse him of that but if you look at him at half time last game, he was obviously personally disappointed but he wasn't bollocking his team. Neither was Doc. Or Weitering, both of whom give it their 90% every week and both of whom made a few errors during the quarter. Teague said in his presser that Walsh was beating himself up for his efforts. Walsh! Easily our best player on the night. He is still too young to be ripping shreds off his team mates but he is the one to do it when the last of the dinosaurs has left. And when Cottrell has fifty games under his belt, I can't see him as being timid either. That's why I would keep him. He's a rough nut who is playing for the club of his boyhood. If anybody is going to die wondering, it won't be him.

I disagree with Keogh that we are miles away. Good on him for his passion but he is a glass half empty type of poster by his own admission. I lean more to the Bondi camp because I'm a glass half full type of person. It makes it harder to swallow when Keogh is right of course and this year he is right. We have made little if any progress on the ladder, whether it is SOS's fault or not. Even though I predicted we would finish 12th on the appropriate thread, I saw enough during the season to realise we should have been playing finals. So now I am disappointed we didn't. We have the bulk of the list in-waiting. We have a shit game plan that doesn't allow enough flexibility to shore up the defense during play when we are getting flogged but Teague has been able to stop the rot between quarters. That says something. The game plan will be tweaked. It's what we don't have that's the issue and that's where we get back to Keogh's soft cocks. Or maybe the on-field leaders aren't allowed. Who knows? Regardless, when we are leaking, SOMEBODY has to just make the call. Slow the game. Move somebody down back for five minutes. Swap Levi and Willo. Something. Anything.
James Hird might not be our favourite person here on TC but if you look at his playing days, he had the capacity to insert himself where he was most needed. Kouta was the same. Dusty Martin just does it at Richmond. Patrick Dangerfield at Geelong. Fingers in dikes before the floodgates open.

Anyway, we have 5 months to sort this out. We prune the unproductive wood. We graft buds and wood from other varieties and let the new combination of strong branches bear the fruit.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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