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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:22 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
BigBlueWave wrote:
This is a great year for bringing in high quality recruits from other clubs. I don't mind trading players or Picks. We have a first round draft pick from last year (Kemp) so the emphasis should be on A and A+ players from other clubs. NO MORE LIST CLOGGERS PLEASE.

There are a whole range of A/A+ grade players we could target.

Jack Viney (FA and the word is he wants to come to Carlton)
Brad Crouch (FA)
Zac Williams (FA and we are pursuing him big time)
Clayton Oliver (Its my understanding that his management made enquiries at Carlton)
Josh Kelly (final year before FA ... )
Wines (worth another crack ... family wants it to happen)
Saad (debatable)

Not a big Fan of recruiting Graham or Atkins (they are not A graders) and would rather we continue with kids.

We should be throwing the kitchen sink at A/A+ graders big time this year. There are also a couple of Father Sons.

Players like Moore/Goddard/Polson I believe should be moved on. I am also not feeling great about McGovern. Teague says players have had to earn their spots ... I don't believe McGovern has done this..


100% :thumbsup:

and as for Trade Targets: Qulaity not list cloggers. all the above. Get some on our list FFS

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:35 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Cazzesman wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
This is a great year for bringing in high quality recruits from other clubs. I don't mind trading players or Picks. We have a first round draft pick from last year (Kemp) so the emphasis should be on A and A+ players from other clubs. NO MORE LIST CLOGGERS PLEASE.

There are a whole range of A/A+ grade players we could target.

Jack Viney (FA and the word is he wants to come to Carlton)
Brad Crouch (FA)
Zac Williams (FA and we are pursuing him big time)
Clayton Oliver (Its my understanding that his management made enquiries at Carlton)
Josh Kelly (final year before FA ... )
Wines (worth another crack ... family wants it to happen)
Saad (debatable)




Pay him what he wants. 6 year deal. Pick of that lot listed.

Regards Cazzesman


Claytons last 6 games in 2015 before the draft had me salivating, and he did become as good as the momentum of form he ended that season.

Him or Merrett I would throw heaps at. Either one will help us no end. Still young.

Williams is in a different space unless GWS match our offer.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:37 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Location: Bondi Beach
aboynamedsue wrote:
I won’t lose any sleep over Finbar going. He’s up there with Anthony Raso and Caleb Tiller as one of the least prepared I’ve seen for an AFL primary list.

Goddard and Moore are surely gone.

If BSOS and/or Macreadie end up on our rookie list, that would be a good result IMO.



:lol: :lol: :lol: Raso Tiller ....there was another couple in that mould

I liked what I saw of BSOS in the preseason, and am a huge believer in Macreadie.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:40 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
Mickstar wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
reckon we should ask the question of any Giants player. Whitfield included. that place ain't right. rank footy.


Yeah Horse,i agree......................Whitfield grew up with Newman so there is a connection............................i reckon on what i have seen Williams would be about tenth in the queue.A little above average but thats all.



Williams hasn't been as great of late, but thatmay have something to do the disease that's going through that whole team. But Williams plays with spirit and plenty of Heart. He came in as a Rookie. Success story. He made something of his opportunity

He was involved and created a few good passages of play last night.

Hard as nails and skilled...seems what we need coz we lack it.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:42 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Good
I can’t understand what all the fuss is about to be honest



Its coz you're too focussed on the Board.

You don't watch the talent on the field with open eyes.

You seem to be too caught up in a agenda with the Board.

So you think Whitfield is overrated :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:44 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
cecil89 wrote:
keogh wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
keogh wrote:
Watching the game now
Zac Williams
Wouldn’t go near him


Any free agents you would pursue?

No


I feel like this is perhaps our last year where we’ll be able to take advantage of available cap space, particularly if other teams are forced to let some talent go due to cap reductions. The club would be remiss if they’re not looking at front ending a contract for a free agent or notable trade target.



You've got it ... and that's where the 2020 Trade game is at. :thumbsup:

Use it or lose it. Only get a shot this year.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:46 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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99prelim wrote:
billc3 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
reckon we should ask the question of any Giants player. Whitfield included. that place ain't right. rank footy.
Agreed.. They have a touch of the Adelaide about them....spot fires everywhere...
Cameron looks like he's the kerosene too
... Or the AFL interference is backfiring :wink:
Go Blues


The AFL Coniglio deal has upset the squad...



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All dictaors fail in the end.

AFL Commission too smart for everyone.

Demetriou's plan has been a huge waste of money, whilst they maligned the game and clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:49 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Location: Bondi Beach
The Hurricane wrote:
Really concerned with the club, signing the old while letting the youth go.
We have a lot of forth and fifth year players now, so that old way way of thinking has to go
Not only are we losing a position on the field to rotate the youth through we are showing a complete lack of faith in the leaders
Cut the ambilocal chord Carlton and let Cripps and Docherty lead this side into a new era



Welcome aboard Hurricane. :thumbsup:

What do you mean by your last sentence?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:54 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Blue Vain wrote:
We're so good that we can walk away from Zac Williams are we?
For those who don't rate him, have a look at his ball use out of defence compared to our players. If you want to play the corridor and get away from the boundary game, you need players who can hit the kick.
We have so many supporters who spend all their time being critical but fail to come up with any solutions. Stick your neck out Keogh. Instead of saying no to everything, bagging everything, tell us what we should do improve the list. No motherhood statements, no "sack the board" copouts. Give us nuts and bolts. Give us names.


I'll guess what keogh's thinking:

Delist all the players SOS drafted except for the spine and Walsh.

Don't look at any A or A+ players because all they will be is retreads when they come to Carlton's wastelands. They aren't that good.

That should give us at least 15 State League players no other team is focussed on with all these delisted players taking the attention of all the list managers.

15 State League players for chips. McAdam only took 2 years to get up to scratch, therefore, Flag guaranteed in 2022.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:59 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
frank dardew wrote:
Agree BV Williams has pace is tough can get his own ball and aggressive but you are right pulls the trigger with the kick inside most times a good kick and generally good decision maker
Would be made not to pursue particularly as it is just a question of dollars not picks given up
I know it is only one game but look at PF last year if you need convincing


Kicked the ball through the eye of a needle ( pack of players) to hit a team mate in the corridor. Gold.

He had 2 and 3 possessions in a chain of play, hitting targets and running to create space for others to run into or become a target.

Tough as nails.

Point is re the Prelim last year, when GWS needed him to fill the void, he did it with aplomb. He's a very good player. Please can we get him...with no matching from GWS, and hopefully no more interference from the corrupt AFL Commission. I think there's too many spot fires going on at GWS for the AFL to save the day....after all, the Commissioners are staying on in Queensland at the AFL's expense for a much needed holiday.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:01 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
BigGartos wrote:
Re the ongoing argument about is our problem development or drafting...
The lack of a proper VFL competition this year has hurt us more than many clubs.
With so many younger players and recruits on what I believe is now a decent list, they really needed to be playing proper footy together over many weeks.
This is the first year we would have had an opportunity to develop a whole of club brand with a pretty rounded list of talent.
And we had good non-listed players to support their development in the seconds.
Then we might have seen more of the younger ones rotated through the seniors and look like they fitted.
And the step up wouldn't have been so big as it is with 12 a side scratch matches.


You always make sense BG.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
DesEnglish wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I can see us landing Williams with an offer GWS can't match (GWS even the corrupt AFL Commission can't buy them a flag).

If Merrett's manager is talking to Austin (maybe about other players in his stable) and we can entice him, we would have to offer 2 first rounders for him.

It seems Saad may just well be eyeing a list spot at Carlton, and he's worth a first rounder plus some. He's out of contract.

How do we land both players from Effen*don?

It would be an opposition's nightmare with the new additions in 2021:

R TDK Walsh Williams
C Merrett Cripps Setterfield

Marchbank and Saad in the backline with Docherty

Charlie and Jack in the forwardline with Martin


That is a much better environment to develop the younger ones like Kemp, Dow, SPS

I'm sure we would get Merrett for 2 x 1st rounders given he will be RFA next year.
I'm sure we would get Saad for 1st rounder plus a 2nd rounder (if we had to) if we couldn't get him with 2 x 2nd rounders.
Especially if they want out.

I would trade a Player for a first pick to get both of those Bumber* players

If Daniher goes for nothing, (ie Effen*don can't match) then that's what is facing them with Merrett next year, and they might think twice about holding onto him.

If they see they can get 2 firsts for Merrett from Carlton and he's out the door, Effen*don may have cap space to match Sydney (or whoever), and they end up with

Daniher (Sydney or Geelong) 2020 2021 1st picks (Geelong have 3 x 2020 1st picks)
Merrett (Carlton) 2020 2021 1st picks
Saad (Carlton) 2020 1st pick (for traded player)
Draft Pick (Effen*don) 1st pick.

They go into 2020 Draft with possibly 5 x 1st round picks starting with their at pick 5 (if Suns beat Hawks), and 2021 with 2 1st round picks or more.

They need a spine, coz they are spineless.

DO IT !!!!!!!!


Which of our players do you think we can afford to lose and will bring in a first round pick?


That's a difficult question.

Potential vs Proven players.

TBH, at the end of the day, any of them.
I'd rather have a Bird in the hand,and not have to worry about development being a success.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
We're so good that we can walk away from Zac Williams are we?
For those who don't rate him, have a look at his ball use out of defence compared to our players. If you want to play the corridor and get away from the boundary game, you need players who can hit the kick.
We have so many supporters who spend all their time being critical but fail to come up with any solutions. Stick your neck out Keogh. Instead of saying no to everything, bagging everything, tell us what we should do improve the list. No motherhood statements, no "sack the board" copouts. Give us nuts and bolts. Give us names.

I’ve told you what I think
I would start a rebuild now. There are roughly 5 to 6 players on every team who play in half of the ground
The other 16 play midfield. Our midfield after Curnow and Cripps simply drops away. Walsh is good. Gibbons should play more there.
But we lack runners and guys that can run both ways.
I wasnt that impressed with Williams last night
Kelly everyone raves about Kelly. Smooth mover but he is soft
Cogs is a goer but overrated too.
There are a lot of overrated players BV


Oh by the way BV I have given alternatives. Have you read them.
I have given names in the past. Have you read them
Did that this time last year in regards to the WAFL

More importantly our strategy in recruiting needs changing that’s obvious

Maybe BV it’s doesn’t matter when the club plays blokes who don’t put in and gives blokes one year contract s when the fork is well and truly stuck

At least when the restrictions lift you and your mates can go and sit on the terraces of Prinnie Park and relive those great old days :smile:


Rebuild now, means ell what we have for high picks...exactly what SOS did

2015 Picks 1, 10, 12 and pick for Plowman
2016 Picks 5 and pick for Marchbank
2017 Picks 3, 10 and pick for Kennedy
2018 Picks 1, 13, 19 and pick for Setterfield
2019 Picks 17 and 20

You would give your 15 first round picks on State League players?
All players are speculative till they prove themselves... not even you could disagree with that Nostradamus.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25449
Location: Bondi Beach
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Oh by the way BV I have given alternatives. Have you read them.
I have given names in the past.


No, I haven't. Let's hear them. Here's your chance.

While you’re at it Keogh, can you also be specific about how you would get these players to the club - ie. how we get the deals done, which players we delist, etc. Exactly what a ‘rebuild’ would look like for us.



Mate, they're all hiding in the State leagues.
First, he would have a couple recruiters for each league (State and Amateurs and Tiwi Islands) around the country.
Do a deal with recruiters so the 300 recruiters are under the soft cap. Pay them on performance.
eg if player x plays 10 games in his frst season $x, 15 in 2nd season $x, and a flag within 3 years $bonus ... but last bonus paid for in Cayman Islands for services to local orphanage

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:22 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Oh by the way BV I have given alternatives. Have you read them.
I have given names in the past.


No, I haven't. Let's hear them. Here's your chance.

While you’re at it Keogh, can you also be specific about how you would get these players to the club - ie. how we get the deals done, which players we delist, etc. Exactly what a ‘rebuild’ would look like for us.

Don’t get too testy
I wrote what I would have done
You chose to ignore the reference to ODwyer and XAvier College
Didn’t the Silvangi s go there too



I understand half of the AFL Commission came from there too.
You think there's something corrupt going on inside that Institution and with those connected to it?

I will keep a keen eye next time I see a Silvagni handshake. See if there's something in that. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
What does curly Austin do ,come draft day there is a powerful quick mid (petracca,wines type) available,1 make the selection 2 trade the pick for established quality mid?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6439
BV
BB
Jonny
I’ll do a plan I’ll name players
You will do the same won’t you
Can’t be full of hot air and shit

I’ll see how big the lists are
And where we finish
First

What do you reckon
Come to the party :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
BV
BB
Jonny
I’ll do a plan I’ll name players
You will do the same won’t you
Can’t be full of hot air and shit

I’ll see how big the lists are
And where we finish
First

What do you reckon
Come to the party :wink:



My plan is a few posts above.

We have a spine.
We have a ruckman.
We add the players I highlighted.

We are not that far off.

A win for Simmo tonight might be the tonic to convince the 20 A Graders who would consider coming to Carlton on less dollars than other offers.

I have already recruited players for 2021: Marchbank, Harry, Newman, Silvagni,
Add Williams, Saad, Merrett and Witherdon and there will be no "peripheral" players in our best 22.
You've already status I'm clueless.

Now I'm waiting for you to come up with something realistic.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18044
keogh wrote:
BV
BB
Jonny
I’ll do a plan I’ll name players
You will do the same won’t you
Can’t be full of hot air and shit



Nice try Keogh but you cant rope everyone else in to deflect from your claims. :grin:
You're the one who claimed to be informed and said no one else is. Here's your big chance.
You told me you've already named the players. Where are they?
You've been bagging the club for years. Where's your nominations and plans over the past couple of years that you've been so critical of?

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
reckon we should ask the question of any Giants player. Whitfield included. that place ain't right. rank footy.


Yeah Horse,i agree......................Whitfield grew up with Newman so there is a connection............................i reckon on what i have seen Williams would be about tenth in the queue.A little above average but thats all.



Williams hasn't been as great of late, but thatmay have something to do the disease that's going through that whole team. But Williams plays with spirit and plenty of Heart. He came in as a Rookie. Success story. He made something of his opportunity

He was involved and created a few good passages of play last night.

Hard as nails and skilled...seems what we need coz we lack it.


OK..............thanks for that Bondi............makes sense.

PS...............last i heard big Wow Jones was residing up your way.Ever run into him ? if you do,say Mick says hello.We worked together when he first arrived at the Blues.

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