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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:41 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Well Papley isn't coming.

Target Williams

Draft a dynamic midfielder/forward type with the first pick.

Someone who can win their own ball.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:43 am 
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Craig Bradley
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keogh wrote:
There was such a focus on Cogs in the draft. He can’t get a game in an ordinary side
There was such a focus on Papley. Tell me he isn’t overrated.
Tell me Martin isn’t overrated. He should be play midfield. So where is he. He seems to play more forward. When he has played mid he hasn’t been good. Just average.
Flying around Shiel in a jet
Are you getting what my point is.


Nothing has changed. We continually go for the big banana and miss what we can actually get. It’s the same with the Judd deal.


Go through all the lists and see what I am talking about.
The only good thing abou Martin is he cost nothing
But he like the other 3 are overrated

Without going into rating these players, I have always had an issue with the marketing department driving our recruiting.
Like I said at the end of last year, we should've targeted big body mids like Zak Jones instead of these 'marketing coup' type players.
There's plenty of time for that when we are actually playing finals football.
I think Newnes is a good solid contributor, but we need more players like him to protect and help develop the kids.
And flogging Cripps is bad for business, especially if the rumours are true as I also expressed my concerns about last year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:45 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6328
Sholl pick 64 age 20
Himmelberg pick 51 from NEFL 22
McAdam we know
OBrien rookie pick big guys take time
Martin
Cogs
Shiel McGovern
Setterfield
Do you want me to keep going :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:47 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Effes wrote:
Well Papley isn't coming.

Target Williams

Draft a dynamic midfielder/forward type with the first pick.

Someone who can win their own ball.

I say no to this too.
Big body B+ inside mids only.
Our engine room lacks grunt.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:51 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3441
keogh wrote:
Sholl pick 64 age 20
Himmelberg pick 51 from NEFL 22
McAdam we know
OBrien rookie pick big guys take time
Martin
Cogs
Shiel McGovern
Setterfield
Do you want me to keep going :wink:


Adelaide Crows in 2020: played 16 - wins 3 - losses 13 - 65.8%


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I'd offer our first pick for Wines and change. The guy is almost back to his best.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:55 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Donstuie wrote:
I'd offer our first pick for Wines and change. The guy is almost back to his best.

:thumbsup:
They might want McGovern back in Adelaide for Powell Pepper, we can do bundles at Carlton. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:57 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Kaloyasena
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
Sholl pick 64 age 20
Himmelberg pick 51 from NEFL 22
McAdam we know
OBrien rookie pick big guys take time
Martin
Cogs
Shiel McGovern
Setterfield
Do you want me to keep going :wink:


Adelaide Crows in 2020: played 16 - wins 3 - losses 13 - 65.8%



Adelaide managed to win 3 games in a row.


We needed to do that to have a chance to finish in the top eight, we came up short.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3441
AGRO wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
Sholl pick 64 age 20
Himmelberg pick 51 from NEFL 22
McAdam we know
OBrien rookie pick big guys take time
Martin
Cogs
Shiel McGovern
Setterfield
Do you want me to keep going :wink:


Adelaide Crows in 2020: played 16 - wins 3 - losses 13 - 65.8%



Adelaide managed to win 3 games in a row.


We needed to do that to have a chance to finish in the top eight, we came up short.


After losing 13 in a row.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 932
keogh wrote:
As I said this season is even a better indicator of where you are at in terms of the other 17 teams. It is clear to me that many in this site haven’t a clue what the rest do. They just look at their own back yard.

As a club we don’t get it.
Essendon** don’t get it.
Hawthorn don’t get it
Richmond do
Geelong do
Port do
WC do
I grant you culture and development helps and the gloss has been lost on Teague. He clearly has his favourite players.

To me the fundamental football issue is Recruiting and List Management.
SOS in five years has failed. Whose idea was it to fly Shiel around in a jet after the worst year in the club’s history. That shows a club internally that is out of touch with the realities of building success.

One of SOS s final tasks was to make sure Martin fitted in nicely to the club. Then his ego says @#$%&! youse all.Yet another superstar to bring the club back where it belongs. Just like Judd. Just like McGovern :wink:
Has Martin been that player. No. Our we any better with him in the team. No
Compare us from the second half of last year to this year. Have we improved. Only slightly.
We are harder to play against but our skill level is crap. That’s because of the players he recruited.
Players internally are overrated.
Top teams wouldn’t even entertain recruiting Plowman let alone hand out a 3 year contract.
Look at someone like Stewart from Geelongs who came to Geelong via the GFL at pick 40.
He plays in the same position as Plowman and is so much better yet SOS picks him at 3 as a junior then picks him again with a crap trade.
He got the job because he is a Carlton Legend and A mate of the President.
Jobs for the boys.

The biggest issue is the club itself.
It continues to ignore the fact that it still out of touch with the realities of on field success in the 21 st century.
How you fix that?
That’s the question I don’t have an answer for.
Maybe if we continue to be at best average for another 20 years something may give.

I don’t agree with many of Keogh’s points but what I do agree with is that we’ve missed a trick by not looking at the state leagues. Too often we’ve gone with washed up players from other clubs rather than state league picks. Shaw, Mullett, Sumner, Lamb, Phillips, O’Shea, Garlett etc rather than taking a genuine look at the state leagues. It was lazy recruitment. While we were doing this west coast went and got Ryan, Geelong got Kelly and Stewart. There are many more examples. I’d like to see us go through the WAFL and SANFL this year and identify the best mature small forward. Bring him into the club and get Eddie to develop him as a coach. Eddie is contracted for 2021 in an off field role and we should leverage his knowledge.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Posts: 979
Just get rid of Murphy!!!!!!!!! Simpson has to go!!!! Betts has to go!!!
It HAS to happen for this club to move forward.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
BlueJean wrote:
Just get rid of Murphy!!!!!!!!! Simpson has to go!!!! Betts has to go!!!
It HAS to happen for this club to move forward.

Murphy has a year added to his contract. He's going nowhere, man.
I'd be happy for Simmo to stay on if we had to keep one of the older blokes but we are stuck with Murphy.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6328
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
Sholl pick 64 age 20
Himmelberg pick 51 from NEFL 22
McAdam we know
OBrien rookie pick big guys take time
Martin
Cogs
Shiel McGovern
Setterfield
Do you want me to keep going :wink:


Adelaide Crows in 2020: played 16 - wins 3 - losses 13 - 65.8%


Your missing the point
The place was a basket case like we have been. The camp was the best thing that happened to them
They struggled at times this year because their whole midfield was missing. That’s why Laird went in there and he has been a revelation. With Sloane and the Crouch brothers back they are back in business. But this a fresh start for them.
We are 5 years into a rebuild and were slaughtered because SOS s manifesto is turning to turd particularly when it comes to mids

Of those draft picks I mentioned name me an equivalent that Sos pulled out of his hat.
No Tahlia
No Walker
No Mackay

And people think we are not fsr off it


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Posts: 979
Blue Sombrero wrote:
BlueJean wrote:
Just get rid of Murphy!!!!!!!!! Simpson has to go!!!! Betts has to go!!!
It HAS to happen for this club to move forward.

Murphy has a year added to his contract. He's going nowhere, man.
I'd be happy for Simmo to stay on if we had to keep one of the older blokes but we are stuck with Murphy.


Well then the club is F—KED.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
keogh wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
Sholl pick 64 age 20
Himmelberg pick 51 from NEFL 22
McAdam we know
OBrien rookie pick big guys take time
Martin
Cogs
Shiel McGovern
Setterfield
Do you want me to keep going :wink:


Adelaide Crows in 2020: played 16 - wins 3 - losses 13 - 65.8%


Your missing the point
The place was a basket case like we have been. The camp was the best thing that happened to them
They struggled at times this year because their whole midfield was missing. That’s why Laird went in there and he has been a revelation. With Sloane and the Crouch brothers back they are back in business. But this a fresh start for them.
We are 5 years into a rebuild and were slaughtered because SOS s manifesto is turning to turd particularly when it comes to mids

Of those draft picks I mentioned name me an equivalent that Sos pulled out of his hat.
No Tahlia
No Walker

And people think we are not fsr off it

With incredible respect, we lost that game because we didn't turn up for two quarters, not because we didn't have the cattle. If the game had gone five minutes longer, we would possibly have won it, Despite SOS's manifesto and Teague's shit game plan, which is the real problem.
We get you think SOS was a woftam.
We get that clubs picked up better players than we did.
We get you are never happier than when we lose so you can spend days wallowing in telling us how SOS mucked up successive draft and trade periods

We have jumped four places on the ladder and improved our percentage.
What was your expectation of our ladder position at the end of this season?? Some of us actually went into that thread and posted it. Did you?
It seems to me from your incessant braying and gloating about how bad we are, that your expectation was finish top four, have someone we picked at #66 win the AFLPA and Brownlow, and have SOS publicly humiliated by the board in the annual president's report.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
BlueJean wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
BlueJean wrote:
Just get rid of Murphy!!!!!!!!! Simpson has to go!!!! Betts has to go!!!
It HAS to happen for this club to move forward.

Murphy has a year added to his contract. He's going nowhere, man.
I'd be happy for Simmo to stay on if we had to keep one of the older blokes but we are stuck with Murphy.


Well then the club is F—KED.


No.
He may still have a role to play.
I don't agree with the extra year but we aren't doomed just because of that.
Ask Keogh.
He knows why we are doomed.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6328
We arnt doomed
But the club can’t keep sacking coaches fitness staff recruiting staff having internal bickering etc etc

In the end the sooner we sever ties with the old Carlton ala Pratt’s and Mathiesons and we arnt an old boys club we actually might resemble a top 4 team


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7481
Location: Bendigo
bondiblue wrote:
Hey were you happier with TDK today? I know he's raw, but even that, what did you think? Keeper?
I think he was dragged around the field by his ponytail in the first half, his opponent even managed to drop into the hole at CHB... haven’t seen a ruck get away with that one at the elite level since the early 90s.

Game was over after that.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2033
keogh wrote:
There was such a focus on Cogs in the draft. He can’t get a game in an ordinary side
There was such a focus on Papley. Tell me he isn’t overrated.
Tell me Martin isn’t overrated. He should be play midfield. So where is he. He seems to play more forward. When he has played mid he hasn’t been good. Just average.
Flying around Shiel in a jet
Are you getting what my point is.


Nothing has changed. We continually go for the big banana and miss what we can actually get. It’s the same with the Judd deal.


Go through all the lists and see what I am talking about.
The only good thing abou Martin is he cost nothing
But he like the other 3 are overrated


Not sure if I fully agree with your point about seeking the big banana. It should be part of the recruiting arsenal of all good clubs. Give you some examples:

Geelong - Dangerfield
Richmond - Lynch & Prestia

I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing targeting well credentialed players from other clubs. Hawthorn won multiple premierships on the back of cherry picking established players from other clubs.

I take your point about recruiting and list management. However, my view is our biggest issue apart from our embedded losing culture is player development. I feel confident Dow would be a better player if he was recruited by Geelong. Good development systems make a huge difference.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:59 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6328
Danger Geelong got for a steal
Lynch was a free agent
Prestia the Tigers payed over for although he has delivered

The thing is their recruiting is the best there is
Go through their respective lists


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