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bondiblue
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:08 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Coach B wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
jim wrote:
Coach B wrote:
Glad to see us still fighting at the end of the season, nice to get yhe W after being down 39 points.

Don't care if we make the finals or not this season, but from 1 game and % behind with 2 to go it is a massive long shot anyway. I think it is important we get the Crows and compete with the Lions.

I really enjoyed:
1. An extra body at the clearance, we didn't get as many loose balls flying out for the opposition to jump on and run, we kept it tight and dominated.
2. Bringing the ball back into the corridor after half time with play on intent. Thought we were very exciting running down the guts.
3. Adjustments that meant we didn't get beaten on the outside or over the back as often after half time.

Really didn't enjoy:
1. Our forward 50 entries, clearly our forward coaching structure isn't up to AFL standards. It is holding us back....
2. Disposal by foot is too inconsistent, we need significant work on kicking skills this off-season.

Loved Crippa's goal, real lifter for the boys.

Thought out backhalf were fantastic from half way through the second quarter, winners everywhere.

CB


Issues are the connect between the mids and forwards more than the forwards themselves. Without that connect it's not easy to set up a forward structure. this is where COVID kicks in. You can't work on that connect as most off the time you can only train with 8 at a time. This season really favors those established sides that have a well-versed, entrenched game style.


Don’t agree on the COVID excuse.
We don’t have enough runners . We play too much stop start footy and a our foot skills are the worst in the comp. our disposal efficiency is the worst in the comp.


You got a source for the disposal efficiency stat? I'm trying to find one.


Don't agree that our forward line issues are connection issues, our only strategy is to kick long to the square and everyone knows it and we have 6 defenders camped there like crocs at feeding time.

Compare that to the West Coast when Ryan kicks laterally to midfielder running forward to space. He also has the option of Darling or Kennedy hitting up in straight lines with a step or two advantage.

Or Geelong with Hawkins Island where everyone clears out and creates a 1 on 1. If they try to double team creates the loose man.

We've got u12 footy, bang it in and see what happens.

CB


Great perspective Coach

100%

We are so predictable...too predictable.

So predictable the opposition have a plan for it every week.

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CK95
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:10 am 
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Bruce Doull
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bondiblue wrote:
I can't believe that [REDACTED] up bias umpire who was only metres away from the Cripps tackle on Taylor paid a free.
:twisted:

Moreso, I can't believe Im hearing nothing about him at all other than it being a "dubious free" :screwy:

Anyone know the umpires No. and Name.
He is as bad as Naiffen No. 22. :oops:

He should be strung up, stoned and dropped.

What a prick of a thing to do to the hardworking Cripps who wanted to strip the ball whilst taylor was throwing his head back...which gave the umpire a better view that there was nothing head high. Absolute cheat who wanted fame in the papers.

Disgrace the prick. :donk: I'm going to watch the replay and I will hang the bastard on this forum. :mad:



Would've been gutting if he'd goaled from that, the prick

Unpopular opinion here but I thought the rest of the umpiring was pretty friendly to us

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CK95
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:20 am 
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Bruce Doull
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What happened with Newnes after the match? Bit of a disagreement with Swans players?

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:33 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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just started watching the replay and need to add

Simpson played a perfect game. IMO his best for the year. :thumbsup:

Conundrum. What to do with him. He will make the decision.
Knowing him, if he does retire, he will do it after the Lions game without the fanfare.
But something tells me this little fella can't justify retirement with the form he showed

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CK95
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:36 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Heavs wrote:
Can't we just blame Barker?



well yes, that too

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AIRCAV
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:36 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondiblue wrote:
Coach B wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
jim wrote:
[quote="Coach B"]Glad to see us still fighting at the end of the season, nice to get yhe W after being down 39 points.

Don't care if we make the finals or not this season, but from 1 game and % behind with 2 to go it is a massive long shot anyway. I think it is important we get the Crows and compete with the Lions.

I really enjoyed:
1. An extra body at the clearance, we didn't get as many loose balls flying out for the opposition to jump on and run, we kept it tight and dominated.
2. Bringing the ball back into the corridor after half time with play on intent. Thought we were very exciting running down the guts.
3. Adjustments that meant we didn't get beaten on the outside or over the back as often after half time.

Really didn't enjoy:
1. Our forward 50 entries, clearly our forward coaching structure isn't up to AFL standards. It is holding us back....
2. Disposal by foot is too inconsistent, we need significant work on kicking skills this off-season.

Loved Crippa's goal, real lifter for the boys.

Thought out backhalf were fantastic from half way through the second quarter, winners everywhere.

CB


Issues are the connect between the mids and forwards more than the forwards themselves. Without that connect it's not easy to set up a forward structure. this is where COVID kicks in. You can't work on that connect as most off the time you can only train with 8 at a time. This season really favors those established sides that have a well-versed, entrenched game style.


Don’t agree on the COVID excuse.
We don’t have enough runners . We play too much stop start footy and a our foot skills are the worst in the comp. our disposal efficiency is the worst in the comp.


You got a source for the disposal efficiency stat? I'm trying to find one.


Don't agree that our forward line issues are connection issues, our only strategy is to kick long to the square and everyone knows it and we have 6 defenders camped there like crocs at feeding time.

Compare that to the West Coast when Ryan kicks laterally to midfielder running forward to space. He also has the option of Darling or Kennedy hitting up in straight lines with a step or two advantage.

Or Geelong with Hawkins Island where everyone clears out and creates a 1 on 1. If they try to double team creates the loose man.

We've got u12 footy, bang it in and see what happens.

CB


Great perspective Coach

100%

We are so predictable...too predictable.

So predictable the opposition have a plan for it every week.[/quote]

The setup that led to Casboults mark and goal saw Dunstall single it out as a better move because they went laterally to open up the space.

As frustrating as it is, we still have loads to improve on and at least we’re now fighting games out.

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keogh
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:58 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Disposal efficiency 67.1%
Lowest in the league
Richmond highest 72.4%
Source AFL app
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carntheblues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:59 am 
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Rod Ashman
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Going the other way, we don't have an open forward line because all our forwards are too high and the opposition usually outnumbers us because they refuse to follow their men all the way up the ground.

So true. Well spotted. That's why the ball is kicked on their head and they are not leading to, or jumping at the ball.

Harry is an athletic beast but he can't be getting possessions on the wing and then expecting to get back for the F50 entry.

Cons:
Too many ordinary performances. Owies, McGovern, Cotterell, Setterfield (apart from his pressure acts) Levi overall despite getting a few possies and kicking a goal, Cunningham unsighted. Martin before getting injured.


Gee you were close with your observation.

The bottom 6 for Fantasy Points

14. Owies
19. McGovern
33. Cuningham
36. Jones (I don't mind that because he was defense first)
37. Cottrell
38. Williamson (50% Def with his 13 possessions)


You were close BSombrero...next in line and 7th

50. Martin

88. Levi did well

So other than Jones, those above need to improve their efforts and skills imo. Gov should be dropped for the remainder of the year, and the Forwards coach has to get the forward positioning and cohesivenss and connection with mids fixed up Only 2 games left to practise that.


I don't give two hoots for fantasy points. We won which requires everyone to play their part. I'll let the coaches determine if players deserve to play the following week. A win is a win! GO BLUES!!!!!
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GreatEx
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:47 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Do fantasy points account for things like shepherds, clever taps, that sort of thing? Terrible way to judge players in most sports and I can only assume AFL is the same.
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24758
Location: Bondi Beach
carntheblues wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Going the other way, we don't have an open forward line because all our forwards are too high and the opposition usually outnumbers us because they refuse to follow their men all the way up the ground.

So true. Well spotted. That's why the ball is kicked on their head and they are not leading to, or jumping at the ball.

Harry is an athletic beast but he can't be getting possessions on the wing and then expecting to get back for the F50 entry.

Cons:
Too many ordinary performances. Owies, McGovern, Cotterell, Setterfield (apart from his pressure acts) Levi overall despite getting a few possies and kicking a goal, Cunningham unsighted. Martin before getting injured.


Gee you were close with your observation.

The bottom 6 for Fantasy Points

14. Owies
19. McGovern
33. Cuningham
36. Jones (I don't mind that because he was defense first)
37. Cottrell
38. Williamson (50% Def with his 13 possessions)


You were close BSombrero...next in line and 7th

50. Martin

88. Levi did well

So other than Jones, those above need to improve their efforts and skills imo. Gov should be dropped for the remainder of the year, and the Forwards coach has to get the forward positioning and cohesivenss and connection with mids fixed up Only 2 games left to practise that.


I don't give two hoots for fantasy points. We won which requires everyone to play their part. I'll let the coaches determine if players deserve to play the following week. A win is a win! GO BLUES!!!!!


Me too.

I agree, requiring everyone to play their part is the objective carna, but rarely happens and didn't.

This thread is an analysis of the match. Not everyone played well. Have a re read. Many players have been pointed out as ineffective. Stats do count for ssomething.

I'd like to hear what you think Gov bought to the game, coz I can't see it. Owies didn't do much at all; gave away a couple frees. Cottrell took 1 good mark and a good kick in the last 2 minutes of the match. Apart from that his turnovers hurt us from his 6 disposals...on a wing. Cuningham showed no intensity. None. Is there anyone else I may have missed :wink: Get real.

Yeah yeah, you don't care

You obviously found something in my post a bit prickly.

Fantasy points are just indicators. Stats can be misleading. But they're the stats.
Just wanted to share them on a fan forum

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GreatEx
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:50 am 
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Ken Hunter
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CK95 wrote:
Unpopular opinion here but I thought the rest of the umpiring was pretty friendly to us


Yeah, agreed. Our 2nd goal, the one that really got us going, came via a blatant throw by Newnes. And Setters clearly got into the back of a Sydney player 20m out directly in front just before the half-time siren. No way we'd have got back into the game if either of those had been called correctly. As always, the umps tried to level things up by inviting the Swans to steal 2pts at the death, but luckily the cheat choked.
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:54 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24758
Location: Bondi Beach
GreatEx wrote:
Do fantasy points account for things like shepherds, clever taps, that sort of thing? Terrible way to judge players in most sports and I can only assume AFL is the same.



They count for something. otherwise metrics wouldn't be discussed or considered in discussion, but they are, by coaches, media, supporters...hence called metrics
How much value, weight they should hold, I don't know, but they count for something, and good starting point. Better than baseless opinions I guess.

I can't argue with the fantasy points this week becaause they were very close to highlight the obvious bottom 6 players.

To get a clearer picture, one would need all the different metrics, along with vision to make better judgements.

I only said last week that the eye sometimes tells a different story than stats, but I don't think the Fantasy points at a glance were that far off.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24758
Location: Bondi Beach
GreatEx wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Unpopular opinion here but I thought the rest of the umpiring was pretty friendly to us


Yeah, agreed. Our 2nd goal, the one that really got us going, came via a blatant throw by Newnes. And Setters clearly got into the back of a Sydney player 20m out directly in front just before the half-time siren. No way we'd have got back into the game if either of those had been called correctly. As always, the umps tried to level things up by inviting the Swans to steal 2pts at the death, but luckily the cheat choked.



:thumbsup: Thank god for that.

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17th Premiership
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Our forwards need to run to different places, at slightly different times, and at different depth.
Then we'll have options to kick to.

I'd have one go straight, one wide and one back. And these don't always have to be the big fellas.
And there should be some coordinated blocking and 'loss-leading' :wink: where a player leads in order to draw out space for the real lead...

That way, the forwards streaming out of the middle or down the wings will see a few options and it will make everyone look better.
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Beijing Blue
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm 
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John James
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17th Premiership wrote:
Our forwards need to run to different places, at slightly different times, and at different depth.
Then we'll have options to kick to.

I'd have one go straight, one wide and one back. And these don't always have to be the big fellas.
And there should be some coordinated blocking and 'loss-leading' :wink: where a player leads in order to draw out space for the real lead...

That way, the forwards streaming out of the middle or down the wings will see a few options and it will make everyone look better.


It's not that hard. Is it dumb footballers, dumb coaches or poor skills? Most likely a combination of all three.
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CC1961
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:35 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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17th Premiership wrote:
Our forwards need to run to different places, at slightly different times, and at different depth.
Then we'll have options to kick to.

I'd have one go straight, one wide and one back. And these don't always have to be the big fellas.
And there should be some coordinated blocking and 'loss-leading' :wink: where a player leads in order to draw out space for the real lead...

That way, the forwards streaming out of the middle or down the wings will see a few options and it will make everyone look better.


Your thoughts are in good company; check this out...

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36994&start=17

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jamespul65
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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we won BUT,still have big game plan problems 2 e.g like to point out walsh running across full back had no one to kick the ball to ,so he goes big bomb straight to swan player goal. If that was rich,coll he would have had 2 options (run back help) . long bomb to Harry 3 swans go up where are our fwds to crumb of harry basic footy (commentators mentioned this) Once again opposition open forward line easy goals this all starts from our forward line run it out with ease .(tigers the last 5 yrs have beaten us like this). The only difference last night was the opposition kicked 7 early goals ,which gave us time to regroup and once again footy gods smiled on teague. Not all negative rapt with dekoning game ,owies looks strong, plowman best game of year and do not recruit papley
swans mate told me no rampe,mills,heeney and buddy shit
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CFC8795
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:54 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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After big let-downs against the Filth and GWS, I was expecting a win against Sydney.
When we were 39 points down, I felt the players had put the cue in the rack and were ready to come home to Melbourne. I sensed a game like the final round in 2019 against the Cats. And then the Crows and Lions games would follow the same script and a long off-season beckoned.
So after having those dreaded thoughts, it was great to see The Almighties come from behind and win a close one.
Hopefully the Blue Boys can finish off the season strongly in the last two games and leave us all with a realistic sense of optimism for 2021. We have the cattle :thumbsup:

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17th Premiership
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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If we can finish the season strongly - win one, be competitive in the other (or win both :smile:), then we take real momentum into the off-season but also have some painful near-misses to drive us towards finals next season.
A bit like Richmond pre-2017 - although they had a good 2-3yrs of close losses/near-misses.

Assuming we win at least one more match (which is by no means guaranteed!), it means we have lifted from a 31% win rate last year to 47% this year.

BUT, we need to really bring it this week. Adelaide have hit some form and we cannot take them lightly.
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sinbagger
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:02 pm 
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John Nicholls

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bondiblue wrote:
just started watching the replay and need to add

Simpson played a perfect game. IMO his best for the year. :thumbsup:

Conundrum. What to do with him. He will make the decision.
Knowing him, if he does retire, he will do it after the Lions game without the fanfare.
But something tells me this little fella can't justify retirement with the form he showed


I think it's clear that Special K and Eddie should call it a day at the end of this season as they won't be much use to the first 22, however Simpson and Murphy still have something to offer next year.
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