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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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They lack confidence because their mentors are weak as piss.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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The losing culture is killing this club

Twenty years is a long time to be stuck in this vicious cycle

Something has to give

A club like Geelong has been there abouts for about 15 - 20 years now

A winning culture makes a huge difference


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
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MIL wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Why are people angry and surprised?
We were never going to win that game. In a game where the opposition scores two goals for three quarters, you make sure they can't kick three to win the game in the last.
How?
Well for a start you drop back an extra man behind the footy so the ball can't get out the back, which it did three times.
I blame Teague for the loss. He is all structure and no match day flexibility. Cameron altered his team structure TWICE during the game to turn things around and Teague sat and watched like hr did last week. Teams get a run on because he has no idea how to put the brakes on, No idea.

Have a look at the centre bounces 75% of the time.
Cripps, Murphy, Ed.
Cripps Murphy, Ed
Cripps Murphy Ed.

Cripps couldn't get near it,
Murphy did OK again but turned it over three times early in the third.
Ed got poleaxed and was running around like a headless chook for a quarter and half. Meanwhile we have SPS rotting away in defence, Martin flashing in and out of the game, Polson and Cottrell who are hard bodies, Eddie who kept falling over at the ctitical moment and Setterfield who we know is a clearance player. Nothing,
Cripps, Murphy and Ed.

In the last three weeks, McKay has kicked something like 3-8. His hands were on tonight again but he has NFI about how to take a set shot.

The team is mentally shot. Has to be,
The pervading thought after the opposition kick a couple on the trot must now be,
'Here we go again.'
It certainly is with the supporters and commentators.

I haven't seen the presser but I can almost here it.

"We didn't take our opportunities when they came late in the game.
W wanted to play our way but in the end they got on top in the contested possessions and clearances.
We came out expecting to win nut just couldn't get the job done."


Sydney next up with their new game style running the footy. They will beat us for run and carry. We stopped that after the Bulldogs game. It was too successful. Run and carry, use the corridor and hit up a leading forward. It all looked so promising compared to the chippy chippy down the boundary and then bomb it long to (Haynes) and hope for a spill. That's the Malthuose formula from the last Collingwood premiership. Not even Collingwood still does it. Bolts did it after MM brought it over. Now Teague has fallen for it.

I watched the Collingwood game until I couldn't sand it anyy longer and the TV was in danger of having a coffee mug thrown at it. I watched this game impassively tonight waiting for the inevitable collapse.
The team is soft.
The club is a shell of its former self on field but the board is happy because we are heading towards being debt free.
I am just about done after supporting them since I was eleven, 59 years ago. It's almost like the day you realise your marriage is over.


Great post and sums us up so well. Teague has been exposed in nearly all our losses. We have been in a winning position against the best teams but totally unable to adjust to opposition changes.


We only have the one game plan which is very taxing, hard to play like that for 4 qtrs, it's inevitable the opposition will get a run on and when they do we are fried.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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deano35 wrote:
Not once did I see in the 2nd half Dow, Fisher, SPS, Martin or anyone else apart from the same 4 in the middle. It makes me sick.
WE HAVE OFFICIALLY KILLED SPS .
Why play Dow as your HF you might as well play Cunningham
WHAT IS TEAGUE DOING????
We are killing our young onball talent coz they no longer play like they did last season.
When David took over he moved players during games NOW its the total opposite.


Teague was appointed by the senior players; not the board...has to repay their loyalty...#tailwaggingdog

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We are a failure as a club. We continue to fail at coaching. We continue to fail at recruiting. We continue to fail at developing our players. We continue to fail at rebuilding. We continue to fail in every aspect of the game. I honestly can't ever see us climbing out of this hole in my lifetime... and I'm only 42. I'm broken

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:18 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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deano35 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Not once did I see in the 2nd half Dow, Fisher, SPS, Martin or anyone else apart from the same 4 in the middle. It makes me sick.
WE HAVE OFFICIALLY KILLED SPS .
Why play Dow as your HF you might as well play Cunningham
WHAT IS TEAGUE DOING????
We are killing our young onball talent coz they no longer play like they did last season.
When David took over he moved players during games NOW its the total opposite.
Just exactly how many times in the 2nd half did we attend the centre bounce.
3 times in the 2nd quarter
5 times in the last.
You keep banging on about this but it is irrelevant.
Once the ball is bounced they are basically all midfielders .
Centre clearance were 6 to 7 all game.
These blokes you say Teague is killing are killing themselves by not running hard enough and presenting.
Look at Walsh he runs harder than anyone and he gets the ball.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So your happy with a midfield rotation of 5 players??
Cripps,Murphy, Ed,Setterfield, Walsh, Newnes
It's a bit hard for a forward pocket to run like Walsh who plays WING.
Everytime Fisher is around the ball something happens.
Why play DOW if your gonna use him as a HF. might as well play Cunningham.
Cripps isn't running hard back. We only have Ed and Walsh as our hard running on ballers.

Why waste all these high end draft picks on midfielders who have speed and power which we clearly lack and yet 1 is at HB, another in a forward pocket, 3 wasting away in scratch matches and another at HF.

So don't blame the kids when they hardly play in there.
Remember when David took over HE said "Play to your strengths "

Well I would have thought an elite junior midfielders strengths are actually playing MIDFIELD


None of Fisher, SPS, Cuningham or Dow are big possession getters. They don’t find the footy enough and never really did in the junior comps either. We haven’t seen enough of Kemp and Philp yet, but my concern is they are the same. Teague just touched on it in his press conference; we need some of these guys to step up. They might have limited opportunities, but whatever opportunities they get they absolutely have to take. They’ve failed that so far this season. Setterfield is a guy who has taken it and won a spot in the regular rotation as a result.

The other key point in the Teague press conference was our lack of inside/outside midfielders. We have a lot of 1 dimensional mids. SPS is an outside player. Dow lacks outside and link-up play. Fisher is good in contested situations, but his size will always limit his effectiveness. Cripps is clearly an inside bull. Walsh is an elite outside runner. Murphy lacks an inside game and is heavily criticised for it. Curnow lacks the polish in his disposal to be damaging on the outside. Stocker, inside. O’Brien, outside. It’s absolutely a problem for us.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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13 2nd half goals in our last 7 games.

Last 2 games...41 2nd half i50s for 1 goal

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Humpers wrote:
Dow and SPS not up to it unfortunately. Now that we can't play finals need to get games into LOB, Philp, TDK and Honey. Put Cripps in cotton wool and get him right for next year.



After the excessive Media for a 21yo, If I was Dow I would have given it everything with vigour till I ran out of fuel.

I would've attacked every contest with vigour.

He didn't. I want to see more of him, just not like tonight.

"Carlton, Pick 3 Patrick Dow"
(Commentator)
Dow is an exciting inside midfelder with pace etc etc.
Carlton:
"Lets play him as a half forward flanker."



Too right.

Maybe we see more of him in the middle next year.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
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Location: Princess Park
Still cant believe we play an injured Cripps before a fit Kennedy, Cunningham, Philp.......

I know players often play with an injury but we not playing a final and Cripps injury seems to be significant enough that he was struggling to run.

Comedy hour.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I am still angry - watching paul Murray live...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:25 pm 
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Banned

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cecil89 wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Not once did I see in the 2nd half Dow, Fisher, SPS, Martin or anyone else apart from the same 4 in the middle. It makes me sick.
WE HAVE OFFICIALLY KILLED SPS .
Why play Dow as your HF you might as well play Cunningham
WHAT IS TEAGUE DOING????
We are killing our young onball talent coz they no longer play like they did last season.
When David took over he moved players during games NOW its the total opposite.
Just exactly how many times in the 2nd half did we attend the centre bounce.
3 times in the 2nd quarter
5 times in the last.
You keep banging on about this but it is irrelevant.
Once the ball is bounced they are basically all midfielders .
Centre clearance were 6 to 7 all game.
These blokes you say Teague is killing are killing themselves by not running hard enough and presenting.
Look at Walsh he runs harder than anyone and he gets the ball.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So your happy with a midfield rotation of 5 players??
Cripps,Murphy, Ed,Setterfield, Walsh, Newnes
It's a bit hard for a forward pocket to run like Walsh who plays WING.
Everytime Fisher is around the ball something happens.
Why play DOW if your gonna use him as a HF. might as well play Cunningham.
Cripps isn't running hard back. We only have Ed and Walsh as our hard running on ballers.

Why waste all these high end draft picks on midfielders who have speed and power which we clearly lack and yet 1 is at HB, another in a forward pocket, 3 wasting away in scratch matches and another at HF.

So don't blame the kids when they hardly play in there.
Remember when David took over HE said "Play to your strengths "

Well I would have thought an elite junior midfielders strengths are actually playing MIDFIELD


None of Fisher, SPS, Cuningham or Dow are big possession getters. They don’t find the footy enough and never really did in the junior comps either. We haven’t seen enough of Kemp and Philp yet, but my concern is they are the same. Teague just touched on it in his press conference; we need some of these guys to step up. They might have limited opportunities, but whatever opportunities they get they absolutely have to take. They’ve failed that so far this season. Setterfield is a guy who has taken it and won a spot in the regular rotation as a result.

The other key point in the Teague press conference was our lack of inside/outside midfielders. We have a lot of 1 dimensional mids. SPS is an outside player. Dow lacks outside and link-up play. Fisher is good in contested situations, but his size will always limit his effectiveness. Cripps is clearly an inside bull. Walsh is an elite outside runner. Murphy lacks an inside game and is heavily criticised for it. Curnow lacks the polish in his disposal to be damaging on the outside. Stocker, inside. O’Brien, outside. It’s absolutely a problem for us.


Absolutely - he didnt have to say it - its clear as daylight we are missing cattle elite footskills and decision making. Some of these youngsters have not come on so need to look at the trade period to make the finals and maybe a flag. Its easy to say we need mids - no we don't - we need a specific type of mid not just mids - we have mids.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Would we be bold enough to put McKay up as part of a big midfield trade?

We need mids. Mids mids and more mids.

And we need to trade big for at least one of those.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19227
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
cecil89 wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Not once did I see in the 2nd half Dow, Fisher, SPS, Martin or anyone else apart from the same 4 in the middle. It makes me sick.
WE HAVE OFFICIALLY KILLED SPS .
Why play Dow as your HF you might as well play Cunningham
WHAT IS TEAGUE DOING????
We are killing our young onball talent coz they no longer play like they did last season.
When David took over he moved players during games NOW its the total opposite.
Just exactly how many times in the 2nd half did we attend the centre bounce.
3 times in the 2nd quarter
5 times in the last.
You keep banging on about this but it is irrelevant.
Once the ball is bounced they are basically all midfielders .
Centre clearance were 6 to 7 all game.
These blokes you say Teague is killing are killing themselves by not running hard enough and presenting.
Look at Walsh he runs harder than anyone and he gets the ball.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So your happy with a midfield rotation of 5 players??
Cripps,Murphy, Ed,Setterfield, Walsh, Newnes
It's a bit hard for a forward pocket to run like Walsh who plays WING.
Everytime Fisher is around the ball something happens.
Why play DOW if your gonna use him as a HF. might as well play Cunningham.
Cripps isn't running hard back. We only have Ed and Walsh as our hard running on ballers.

Why waste all these high end draft picks on midfielders who have speed and power which we clearly lack and yet 1 is at HB, another in a forward pocket, 3 wasting away in scratch matches and another at HF.

So don't blame the kids when they hardly play in there.
Remember when David took over HE said "Play to your strengths "

Well I would have thought an elite junior midfielders strengths are actually playing MIDFIELD


None of Fisher, SPS, Cuningham or Dow are big possession getters. They don’t find the footy enough and never really did in the junior comps either. We haven’t seen enough of Kemp and Philp yet, but my concern is they are the same. Teague just touched on it in his press conference; we need some of these guys to step up. They might have limited opportunities, but whatever opportunities they get they absolutely have to take. They’ve failed that so far this season. Setterfield is a guy who has taken it and won a spot in the regular rotation as a result.

The other key point in the Teague press conference was our lack of inside/outside midfielders. We have a lot of 1 dimensional mids. SPS is an outside player. Dow lacks outside and link-up play. Fisher is good in contested situations, but his size will always limit his effectiveness. Cripps is clearly an inside bull. Walsh is an elite outside runner. Murphy lacks an inside game and is heavily criticised for it. Curnow lacks the polish in his disposal to be damaging on the outside. Stocker, inside. O’Brien, outside. It’s absolutely a problem for us.


Dow averaged 26 in the TAC. SPS averaged around 20 in his junior comp. Both won their own footy too. Fisher was the only West Australian at at the Under-18 Championships to average over 20 disposals.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2033
cecil89 wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Not once did I see in the 2nd half Dow, Fisher, SPS, Martin or anyone else apart from the same 4 in the middle. It makes me sick.
WE HAVE OFFICIALLY KILLED SPS .
Why play Dow as your HF you might as well play Cunningham
WHAT IS TEAGUE DOING????
We are killing our young onball talent coz they no longer play like they did last season.
When David took over he moved players during games NOW its the total opposite.
Just exactly how many times in the 2nd half did we attend the centre bounce.
3 times in the 2nd quarter
5 times in the last.
You keep banging on about this but it is irrelevant.
Once the ball is bounced they are basically all midfielders .
Centre clearance were 6 to 7 all game.
These blokes you say Teague is killing are killing themselves by not running hard enough and presenting.
Look at Walsh he runs harder than anyone and he gets the ball.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So your happy with a midfield rotation of 5 players??
Cripps,Murphy, Ed,Setterfield, Walsh, Newnes
It's a bit hard for a forward pocket to run like Walsh who plays WING.
Everytime Fisher is around the ball something happens.
Why play DOW if your gonna use him as a HF. might as well play Cunningham.
Cripps isn't running hard back. We only have Ed and Walsh as our hard running on ballers.

Why waste all these high end draft picks on midfielders who have speed and power which we clearly lack and yet 1 is at HB, another in a forward pocket, 3 wasting away in scratch matches and another at HF.

So don't blame the kids when they hardly play in there.
Remember when David took over HE said "Play to your strengths "

Well I would have thought an elite junior midfielders strengths are actually playing MIDFIELD


None of Fisher, SPS, Cuningham or Dow are big possession getters. They don’t find the footy enough and never really did in the junior comps either. We haven’t seen enough of Kemp and Philp yet, but my concern is they are the same. Teague just touched on it in his press conference; we need some of these guys to step up. They might have limited opportunities, but whatever opportunities they get they absolutely have to take. They’ve failed that so far this season. Setterfield is a guy who has taken it and won a spot in the regular rotation as a result.

The other key point in the Teague press conference was our lack of inside/outside midfielders. We have a lot of 1 dimensional mids. SPS is an outside player. Dow lacks outside and link-up play. Fisher is good in contested situations, but his size will always limit his effectiveness. Cripps is clearly an inside bull. Walsh is an elite outside runner. Murphy lacks an inside game and is heavily criticised for it. Curnow lacks the polish in his disposal to be damaging on the outside. Stocker, inside. O’Brien, outside. It’s absolutely a problem for us.


Apart from our losing culture, the biggest issue is the lack of development of our younger players

Not many of them are showing they will be good long term quality players

This is a bad sign considering we are 5 years into a rebuild


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14333
Location: Sydney
CFC8795 wrote:
Any suggestions about how to make the pain of heartache and disappointment go away?


Less Blues, more booze


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:30 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 932
I’m sick of saying this every second week but our biggest problem is our loser mentality that has festered for way too long. Who thought we’d win at 3 quarter time? I didn’t. Every other Carlton supporter I was talking to during the game didn’t. Why didn’t we? Because all we’ve done is lose for the best part of 20 years now. It’s all the players know from Simmo to the youngest bloke out there. They didn’t expect to win at 3 quarter time, GWS did.

All this does, like last week, is reinforce this loser mentality. Its time to move on the oldies who know nothing but losing and will never be able to grow out of it. Try to find a core group of 7-8 who can really drive the club forward. Weiters and Walshy are the blokes who can lift this club off the canvas. They just need others to come along for the ride.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
cecil89 wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Not once did I see in the 2nd half Dow, Fisher, SPS, Martin or anyone else apart from the same 4 in the middle. It makes me sick.
WE HAVE OFFICIALLY KILLED SPS .
Why play Dow as your HF you might as well play Cunningham
WHAT IS TEAGUE DOING????
We are killing our young onball talent coz they no longer play like they did last season.
When David took over he moved players during games NOW its the total opposite.
Just exactly how many times in the 2nd half did we attend the centre bounce.
3 times in the 2nd quarter
5 times in the last.
You keep banging on about this but it is irrelevant.
Once the ball is bounced they are basically all midfielders .
Centre clearance were 6 to 7 all game.
These blokes you say Teague is killing are killing themselves by not running hard enough and presenting.
Look at Walsh he runs harder than anyone and he gets the ball.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

So your happy with a midfield rotation of 5 players??
Cripps,Murphy, Ed,Setterfield, Walsh, Newnes
It's a bit hard for a forward pocket to run like Walsh who plays WING.
Everytime Fisher is around the ball something happens.
Why play DOW if your gonna use him as a HF. might as well play Cunningham.
Cripps isn't running hard back. We only have Ed and Walsh as our hard running on ballers.

Why waste all these high end draft picks on midfielders who have speed and power which we clearly lack and yet 1 is at HB, another in a forward pocket, 3 wasting away in scratch matches and another at HF.

So don't blame the kids when they hardly play in there.
Remember when David took over HE said "Play to your strengths "

Well I would have thought an elite junior midfielders strengths are actually playing MIDFIELD


None of Fisher, SPS, Cuningham or Dow are big possession getters. They don’t find the footy enough and never really did in the junior comps either. We haven’t seen enough of Kemp and Philp yet, but my concern is they are the same. Teague just touched on it in his press conference; we need some of these guys to step up. They might have limited opportunities, but whatever opportunities they get they absolutely have to take. They’ve failed that so far this season. Setterfield is a guy who has taken it and won a spot in the regular rotation as a result.

The other key point in the Teague press conference was our lack of inside/outside midfielders. We have a lot of 1 dimensional mids. SPS is an outside player. Dow lacks outside and link-up play. Fisher is good in contested situations, but his size will always limit his effectiveness. Cripps is clearly an inside bull. Walsh is an elite outside runner. Murphy lacks an inside game and is heavily criticised for it. Curnow lacks the polish in his disposal to be damaging on the outside. Stocker, inside. O’Brien, outside. It’s absolutely a problem for us.


Teague compains about a lack of outside players and plays SPS in defence and Cunningham in the twos. OK

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
bluehammer wrote:
Would we be bold enough to put McKay up as part of a big midfield trade?

We need mids. Mids mids and more mids.

And we need to trade big for at least one of those.

In a heartbeat.
Let him kick 2-4 against us every time we play against him.
He's never going to kick straight with that action. The ball fades like a golf shot and he can't adjust because he is so inconsistent.
Mind you, in a team where he gets it lace out twenty in front he might kick 4-7 a week, which is a pretty good return.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:35 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2452
Location: Princess Park
david31 wrote:
I’m sick of saying this every second week but our biggest problem is our loser mentality that has festered for way too long. Who thought we’d win at 3 quarter time? I didn’t. Every other Carlton supporter I was talking to during the game didn’t. Why didn’t we? Because all we’ve done is lose for the best part of 20 years now. It’s all the players know from Simmo to the youngest bloke out there. They didn’t expect to win at 3 quarter time, GWS did.

All this does, like last week, is reinforce this loser mentality. Its time to move on the oldies who know nothing but losing and will never be able to grow out of it. Try to find a core group of 7-8 who can really drive the club forward. Weiters and Walshy are the blokes who can lift this club off the canvas. They just need others to come along for the ride.


Yep, I was with you at 3 qtr time, I was just waiting for the Giants, you could see it coming. Our game plan is very taxing and with little scoreboard pressure they were going to come at us.

I've been sitting on the fence about Simpson and Betts going around again next year but its clear we need to move on without them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:36 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 8960
Location: Melbourne
jim wrote:
This year has seriously been a waste. The season was set up for us at 3/4 time the last two weeks and we [REDACTED] it!

I'm happy we've improved a mile since the middle of last year and were talking finals this late in the year but at the same time it has really been a waste.


We actually haven’t improved at all since Teague took over. He went 7-6 last year. We’re 6-8 this year


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