So you’re going with Grimes and Houli being gems of preseasons picks?

Grimes - drafted #2 pre season 2009.

Houli - drafted #3 pre season 2010. He walked out in 2009 and demanded a trade to Richmond

https://m.essendonfc.com.au/news/2010-1 ... -walks-out

That’s hardly genius.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

what we have in this thread is an example of why the internet is such a [REDACTED] tool. Anyone can skim and assume a position and present a lake's surface as depth...over and over and over....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

can we change the name of this thread to 'keogh hates sos'?

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my last one was rubbish

Football is an emotional game and we have been starved of success for a long time
The last 6 years in particular under Malthouse and Bolton have been particularly tough
So I can understand people getting emotional when a guy continually bangs on in the negative about recruiting
Obviously I believe the future isn’t as rosy as what others think
I’ve stated the reasons backed it up with evidence
If you go through the premiership teams of the last ten years you get the same scenario as far as to how the playing list was assembled
I couldn’t give a shit if posters take pot shots
I laugh when someone thinks you use the internet inappropriately yet uses a footy fan forum to publicise his own book
I do think that the List Manager is the most important person at a club
And it’s good to see some other posters agree that the recruiting could be better

Let’s see what SOS Brodie and Agresta bring to the trade table in the next month

Define "evidence".

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

EFA

Yep, there ya go.

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

Whether you 100% agree, 100% disagree or agree in part with Keogh he still has some valid points. And the most valid is, is that if you are someone who bucks the general consensus of everything is all rosy at Carlton, you are as good as targeted in every way possible, including personal attacks. Not cool.
Personally, I don't 100% agree with Keogh's views about the lack of potential of some of our kids, nor do I 100% agree with his views on SOS. But there are still question marks that need to be answered with our playing list, it's depth and the priority of our recruitment of players. To which Keogh has only highlights the negative parts and for a balanced discussion that's needed. It's good food for thought. Either way, whatever side of the fence you sit on, time will tell us all eventually. But being able to voice this on a Carlton forum and having a robust discussion about it is the whole point, isn't it?

Now, our forward line seems set with the additions of Papley, Butler and Betts. So who are we targeting for the middle and who should we targeting for the middle?

Define late pick

Is pick 43 for Setterfield a late pick?
Is Newman for 4 rounder a late pick?
Is Jack Silvagni for 53 a late pick?
Is Macreadie for 47 a late pick?

if these are considered late picks then you have Setterfield, Newman, Silvagni, Gibbons, Williamson, Macreadie for 3-4 rounder picks

I couldn't agree more that healthy debate is the lifeblood of this forum, however to be fair, anyone who posts their OPINION as fact is going to be targeted regardless of their view.

There are many valid points that you, Synners, Colourman and Keogh make that are lost in the discussion because they are sometimes packaged up with anti SOS, Board, Coach etc sentiment that detracts from the discussion.

Just my 2 cents worth

Thanks for bringing this up again.

I've mentioned this before, but it doesn't suit keogh's agenda, hence dismissed.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Fair point. And you could probably add a few more names to that list too. And not just the 'negative' posters either, some of the 'happy clappers' are just as bad, as are the passive aggressive posters. Almost everyone on here does do it to some degree and if it's pointed out and picked at for every comment this place would be pretty depressing.
We're all here to discuss the improvement of our club in one way or another and that alone leaves it open to a multitude of opinions and different views on things.
Personally, I have learnt more about the club, players, staff and opposition teams than I ever have through reading and engaging with everyone on here, even the ones that like to single you out. This is a good place for football banter with some really knowledgeable contributors.

Rubbish.

I haven't read one poster ever saying we don't have gaps.
I haven't read one poster ever saying SOS hasn't missed an opportunity.
I haven't read one poster ever saying looking for a hidden gem in State Leagues is a bad idea.
I haven't ever read of every poster of the same team agree on the choices their list managers make at the Draft or with Trades.

Nothing to do with rosy glasses.

I get it. I get the state league idea. I get the gaps. I get the opportunities missed in retrospect. I get the points, but its not about our future. Lets look at what we've got and what needs addressing to win a Flag.

Problem is, the constant reference to the past, and attacks on SOS are unbalanced and points bought up by posters for discussion are totally dismissed, and its the same old constant opinions made out as facts, accompanied by personal attacks about seeing things with rose coloured glasses, or having heads up our arse etc....nothing to do with this forum.

Lets look forward. Yes...its great we seem to have filled the small forward gap with Papley Butler and Betts...in fact, we have good depth in that position for 2020. Glad to see Martin's pace and skills added to the fold. He will make us quicker with our ball movement. Now for the extra experienced mid and ruck...might not happen this year, but I don't think that is critical as next year we are not playing for the Flag...who knows....

Keep smiling. Futute looks Bright. Toot Toot.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Great post ... we are one, but we are many....

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

It's a figure of speech about being able to have a different or sometimes sceptical or 'non positive' view on things is my point.

But moving forward also.........My view on the needs for the list is 100% opposite of yours in the sense that we needed to fill the midfield and ruck gaps before the forward line. But that's not what has happened and I personally hope Cripps get some more inside support before the end of this trade period.

Nah...I'm keen on mid and ruck too as a primary objective, and if we could get a small forward plugging that hole then all the better. Betts is the short term fix, and hasn't cost us any high end mid, ditto Butler, although he's longer term and ready to go.

I'm sure the target is mids, definetely a ruck, but don't feel ruck is a priority, and a small forward. Its obvious with Papley, Butler and Betts the small forward gap will be solved and we will have depth there.

The small forward role to Papley would be great in that he can rotate in the midfield because he's been great there for Swans, but too deadly in the forwardline to play him midfield for majority of game.

No doubt the mid was the primary target in 2018 and 2019 with Shiel and cogs. I think we will land a mid. We don't want just any mid. They must be experienced, and ready to rumble with Cripps Ed and Murphy.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Nice, what's your thoughts then on this. Instead of looking for one experienced mid that we will have to most likely use a 1st rounder solely on, do we look for a few fringe players that are already big bodied, in the right age bracket and can impact straight away. The reason I think this is, the kids will get bigger and better and it's about getting players to help lift the load. Like SOS did with all the GWS rejects before, but this time with better quality players instead.

Liddle and Lloyd hot pursuit of Dom Abrogio have failed. Graham Wright was also approached but the Hawks slammed the door shut on that attempt immediately. Theres a bit of bad blood between us and the Hawks. Sounds as if SOS has survived this one.

They must still be a bit bitty about the poaching of AR.

Could no one please buy my book...mind you, its unavailable anyway....has been for about 3 years... Hope that satisfies the decorum....mind you it'll probably be brought up again and again.

And just to try and clarify

A soap box is not a discussion, its just 1 voice disregarding discussion by trying to shout out all opposing views. It has nothing to do with positive or negative, everything to do with not even trying to enter into a discussion.

Try discussing sometimes, that involves agree/disagreeing in the search for common ground, for connection, not I am right you are wrong. Agro and others, and I do not always agree yet they never bore me because they do engage in debate---of course I cannot say they feels the same about me.

I just hate someone who needs to go on and on and on about the same thing with no movement. If 2 + 2 = 4 say it once and discuss something else, if it doesn't show me the shifting ground - that's the really interesting part – something BV or Blue Sombrero constantly do even if they (BV is particular) don't understand great poetry...

Do I discuss, not much anymore...and I accept that is a sad reflection on me. Mostly though, I enjoy the opinions and the debates...just not the lectures - like this one...so I'll step off the soap box and let Sidex and Keogh continue on and on...

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!