Patience is a virtue.

You're a glass is half-empty kinda guy, aren't you speakers? Mate, anyone is going to feel like crap if that's happening to him as well, no matter the age.

Footy is not war. Mistakes don't lead to people dying. Its a game. You pick yourself back up if you hit the ground. Thats life. Its also learning.

This is all pop-psychology from non-experts. All players need to make their debut. Where's the evidence that mistakes at age 17 hurt the individual more than a miskick on debut at 21, with 10kgs more muscle? I'm sure Murphy will play better when he's got more meat on him, but that doesn't mean he can't cope now.

We have no evidence of young players losing confidence so badly that it ruins their careers. We DO however have evidence of young players playing a lot of games at 17, and going on to become great players.

Footballers are not bloody Blanche DuBois, for God's sake. Do you reckon Brett DeLedio hangs around trams a broken man, looking out for the kindness of strangers?

As for this:

Don't you remember the club saying they drafted all the discards because they needed some hard bodies in the side?

The club drafted all those discards because they [REDACTED] up. We finished last a season after those "discards"... gee, hardly an endorsement is it?

Speakers, your negativity is not the right message to spread to a young team. I wonder if Rodney Eade goes out and tells Ryan Griffin that he if flowers up trying to break a tackle, he'll be dropped on the spot and won't get back in for 5 weeks.

NO! he knows his kids have awesome talent, and he backs them in!!! even if they make mistakes!!!! And guess what..... because of the talent, more often than not they reward him!!!!!!!!

This should be our motto:

Be Bold. Run. Take risks. Play your game. You know how to play footy. Mistakes can be corrected. Keep running.

Not your festering negativity.

You're hung up on the definition of loss. Failure is not trying. Failure is getting paid to show up. Failure is not accidentally letting Akermanis past you, and then chasing him for 50 metres, only to just miss the tackle while he snags a goal. Its correcting an error and creating a resolve to get the bastard next time, and to hit the gym so you can stuff him in the dirt next time the opportunity arises.

Failure isn't losing games. Failure is not trying.

With Walker, Murphy, Bentick, Russell etc etc in the side, we won't have to worry about a team not trying.

THATS SUCCESS!!! THATS CARLTON!!!

THEN IN 3 YEARS, WHEN THEY'VE ALL PLAYED BETWEEN 50-100 GAMES... LOOK OUT!!!!! BIGGER, ANGRIER, MEANER.. AND EXPERIENCED!!!

PREMIERSHIP HERE WE COME, AND NAMES LIKE CALLUM CHAMBERS WILL BE DUST!

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Love Cricket? Love me

If I am a half-empty glass kinda guy, then you're full of coke. Mate, you read too much into what others write. I think you'd better get a grip.

Why are you telling me footy is not war and that mistakes don't lead to people dying? You're overreacting. And you say all players need to make their debut. I don't recall disagreeing with this point. Actually I think this is a new point you have raised.

Who said players can lose confidence to such an extent that their careers are stuffed? I didn't say that. And you said footballers are not bloody Blanche DuBois. That's a fine overreaction there.

I never said the coach would tell a player that because he made a mistake he would be dropped. That's you putting words into mouths again.

I take it from what you have written that you don't remember the club saying they drafted all the discards because they needed some hard bodies in the side.

No offense, but I think you are getting a bit carried away, like you did to that other poster in another topic earlier. Go pur yourself a glass of water, and chill out.

Oh, and if you weren't putting words into my mouth, then I take it you are just raving by yourself.

I remember it. My response to that is they erred in getting the discards. Just saying something doesn't make it true or the right decision.

I like to use absolute examples to illustrate my point. You seem to be a bit sensitive by disposition, so I will try and tone down the zest. But the sentiment remains.

Your argument appears to be that players are sensitive to failure, and young players especially so. I used some absolute analogies in my response to demonstrate several ways in which your argument is flawed. You then agreed with the more extreme examples, and overlooked the ones that apply:

- that young players are NOT more sensitive to failure,
- that failure is what is DEFINED WITHIN the culture of the organisation as failure,
- and that negativity and scare tactics are NOT good coaching technique for a young team with a lot of talent. Risk-taking and tolerating skill errors are, as failure is not defined by error but by a lack of effort and boldness

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Love Cricket? Love me

I'd actually be more concerned about Walker, Simpson and Bentick playing games and establishing themselves more than Murphy who is just a kid out of school.

You seem to be a bit mad by disposition.

Anyhow, my major point here, which was raised in my initial post in this section, was that a gung-ho youth policy could potentially result in collective hammerings on the scoreboard and that some balance is required when moving forwards with kids.

How many is too many?

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Love Cricket? Love me

Exactly !!

Walker, Simpson & Bentick have been in the system for a couple of years now and have to have a solid & consistent season. If they don't (for whatever reason) do that, then we will fall even futher behind from where we think we are right now.

As for Murphy, I'm sure he will play some senior games but surely you can't expect him to walk in and blitz straight away ?? Cooney took a while to adjust and he had a more mature body shape plus he had been playing senior SANFL footy. Thinking that Murphy will play all 22 games this season is sheer 'pie-in-the-sky' stuff. Sure, pencil him in for the first round, we need to see how he measures up but take it on a week-by-week basis from there.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Cooney only really showed something in his first season in rounds 18-22

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I would suggest Walker's confidence took a hit because more was expected of him than he could deliver. Likewise, I would argue Livingston's confidence took a hit when he was left on the game's best forwards for years.

How many is too many?

How about the coach picks a side that will hopefully be competitive but will also be geared towards building for the future.

If some of the kids struggle to the point that it looks like their confidence is suffering, then give them a run in the Ants so they can recapture their confidence.

And if the ship starts leaking, then maybe bring in a few mediocre yet steady 25+ players to make sure the ship doesn't completely sink.

Correct TheGame.
1st year kids need time to find their feet.
There's plenty of other kids who've been there more than 12 months who are in line for consistant senior game time.
PATIENCE!!!

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There's so much I could say...

Game and Sheik are correct, as in, "for their careers" they need to be playing and showing something. I'm talking team-wide, and including Murphy. I want a team picked on talent and effort, and Murphy makes it in for mine.

Effes is right about Cooney, but I dare say he wasn't coached very well in his first season, and was used too much. Im not proposing Murphy play every minute of the year on the ball. I really mean coming-off-the-bench stuff.. forward pocket... a bit on the ball/wing.

MURPHY!!

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Love Cricket? Love me

I did say that he 'took a while to adjust'.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Why do we keep talking about patience? The concept of patience is not relevent to this discussion.

It should be spots for talent and effort. Im not expecting him to be a gun straight away, just to be pushed up for senior selection every week, because he's the future of the side. Some players might not be. He definitely is. If he's not, then Wayne Hughes should be shot out of a canon for picking him.

Return-On-Investment.

Talent and Effort.

It all points to Murphy, Walker, Bentick, Simpson etc etc (as former non-regulars) They should be the nucleus of the side

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Love Cricket? Love me

Walker, Bentick, Simpson, Russell etc etc sounds a lot like most kids to me Tyrant. Which kids on our list would you like to see play all 22 games this year in the seniors, assuming they are fit?

I don't have a rule against a youth policy per se. Ryan Houlihan was played almost every week from the outset. But at the time he was the only kid we had, whereas in 2006 we have the youngest list.

Does Prendergast qualify? Surely he gets in on 'effort' alone. Isn't that why he is in the leadership group? I can tell you it aint because of his skill level.

It is all about patience.

I agree with that bit..I actually agree with all of Tyrants sentiments.

This "It will smash their confidence" wreaks of a fan just trying to sound smart. Give me an example of this happening someone?

If he is good enough play him. Providing he shows some promise and providing he doesn't get smashed from bigger players....friggin heck!!! Play him!!!

The kid obviously has his head screwed on...He seems to have a great family support system and we Know Pagan has a good history with kids.

The ONLY reason to 'not' play him is if he isn't good enough and by all accounts he bloodywell should be.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Not that I have my hopes up or anything....

Well I'm a fan and that's my prerogative I spose....

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Did I say I disagreed with you?

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Cooney was dropped twice in his first season, while Goddard was also dropped once while not playing the first three (due to injury? )

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch