We are paying and have been paying Jonothan Brown, Warren Tredrae, Barry Hall, Pavlich money to Lance and have not been seeing similar results...thats the facts...our CHF isnt as good as the best going around but we still pay big money and then have to find a spot for him as loose man down back because he cant get a kick up forward. Agreed we cant get the ball to him in a decent regular fashion but blokes like Brown can get their own ball regardless and thats whe they get the big bucks. If Lance was getting 200k for doing what he is doing then fair enough...but he is at the Blue Chip end of the money scale and not delivering Blue Chip results...any reasonable person would question why we are paying that type of money for the return we are getting.

I blame the club for re-signing him on 400K a year..absurd....the club appeared to have a reasonable offer from Melbourne and should have taken it...best for both parties...where is lance at?..well he wont be at CHF once Kennedy is fit and firing and 400K a year to have Lance play as sweeper down back is money down the drain....

You know the Game???

Were a pretty young and inexperienced side because the experienced players who should have helped carry the can didnt want to.. they preffered to leave..its a mentality that goes through the club...

Kouta wishes Campo all the best but by Campo not rolling up his sleeves and going for a PERCEIVED easier ride.. he leaves Kouta on his own... Allen did the same thing.. all these blokes are selfish.. and its a cutural thing.
Because for the last 5 years none of them wanted to do what was required they made it harder on each other and the kids...

Thats my point one.

My point two is this..

My family is split up between stKiulda supporters and Carlton supporters (mostly) the ratio is about 4 Carlton 1 StKilda...

For YEARS,.. i have heard them talk about the Everitts and the Halls.. and the Locketts.. and the Elphinstones.. The Shanahans... The Dunnes..The Loewes.. The Winmars.. The Harveys.. The Burkies... blah blah blah.... it goes on and on....
Some of these players are legends.. some were one season wonders and others were plain old hacks..

With all these false dawns and bullshit belief that my cousins had for years i used to laugh at them...

Why??... because they didnt have the culture in place to every win anything!!!... no matter who they got the club was unprofessional... the players didnt give a rats arse.. (minus a couple)...and sometimes he would talk about particular players like they were guns...!!!.. well i knew they could play the game but i also knew for as long as they had overated big fish in small pond mentalities my cousins wernt going anywhere...

I would always have the bragging rights when it came to Carlton / StKilda...

Got whipped by the coach???... well thats ok.. the players got together and turfed him out!!!...

One good season?? Well you become a legend at StKilda forever...

Bad character??... fat and lazy??? wouldnt train???... well the supporters loved you even more!!!

Why???Cos they had nothing to cheer for and the standards just kept slipping till Rod Owen becomes a star at the club.. who cares hes 16 and a plonk???... he shows glimpses...!!!

Elphinstone???Two good season has enough...wants to go to Richmond.. (Hack footballer but played for Victoria a game or two cos he had a few good games)... now all the players and all the supporters get together and see him while he is performing for a cover band and guilt trip him into coming back!!!...the end result??Elphinstone plays another 2 shit years at the club and disappears...

The point to this???

No standards.....!!!!

Elphinstone returned to the club but because he was begged and pampered he didnt even do the basics.....

No standards..!!!

The shoe is on the other foot now...

Were the ones that love and support No standards.. because a shit Lance is better than no Lance.. because to us.. Lance has been part of simething semi succesful... dont worry about the fact that the last time he produced EFFECTIVELY was 5 years ago...we have Lance.. he was part of 1999...We have Kouta he used to be a champion..blah blah blah...they get the roles where we create for them just to play the game.. (one a floating half back flanker- and the other is an extractor... cant do anything else but he can get the ball out).

We should go for a rule change...like in baseball.. you want a guy who can hit the ball??.. u call him in during the game just for that and he then troddles off... or the special teams in gridiron...

those days are over!!!
the teams going places have their senior players playing fair dinkum roles.. and the kids floating off them...

Dogs???Brad Johnson.. Luke Darcey .. Chris Grant.. Scotty West.. etc,

Pick any team and thats the way it is....

With us.. were just happy to have has been doing semi roles ... because we have NO STANDARDS as a club.. as supporters and they as pro athletes.

Were the ones that love and support No standards.. because a shit Lance is better than no Lance.. because to us.. Lance has been part of simething semi succesful... dont worry about the fact that the last time he produced EFFECTIVELY was 5 years ago...we have Lance.. he was part of 1999...We have Kouta he used to be a champion..blah blah blah...they get the roles where we create for them just to play the game.. (one a floating half back flanker- and the other is an extractor... cant do anything else but he can get the ball out).

We need to get our standards sorted all over the place.
Denis might be just as much to bláme as anybody with his bullheadedness.The difference with Denis is this.. he does put in 120%..i know that for fact... hes first in and last to go...
He might not have a clue about todays footy.. (not saying he does or he doesnt)...but there is a supreme effort put into the club by Denis. Discipline wise he is numero uno.. always has been always will be.
Denis will at least teach us how to be disciplined.. even if he has no idea about coaching.. and that discipline thing isnt easy to teach..
I think club29 made a great post about what will happen after Denis goes.. (i agree with him).

The second thing to remember is this.. Denis is not part of a salary cap..
Thats a purely financial decision..

I really believe that this club was good at winning while it was winning but when things have tipped over it has no clue....!!!

The players have too much power in the psyche of this club...

The club is scared to let a guy like Lance go because it fears failure!!!...

But the club is failing so something must be done1!!

I have the utmost faith in youth.. this club has stuck its little toe into the water a few times. found the water cold and is now shit scared to jump in...!!!!

Its slowly weening itself into the kiddies pool when it comes to youth...

Just like in a bush fire .. it sweeps everything before it blackening everything... but from the devastation comes new life...
Thats where were at now!!!.. and the quicker supporters , board members etc forget about the past and look into the future the quicker we will get out of this devestation and into a regeneration of life.

This bullshit about has beens/ deadwood should have been backburnt ages ago!!!...more faith should have been given to the draft and we would be much better off.

I hate this (bet each way) syndrome were in because were shit scared!!!

All i know is things cant get any worse!!!.. and with faith and standards they wont!!

I think club29 made a great post about what will happen after Denis goes.. (i agree with him).

the club is failing.

Yet in failing is getting youth

and needs to continue to fail to get good youth

so its not failing enough

or not succeedding enough in its failing

or not failing the correct way

or not failing the way some want

or failing to do the things neccessary to fail correctly

Not spectatcularly failing more sort of cuddling failing


This is bizzarre

I mean seriosuly bizzarre.

I think I preferred the people who from the outset disputed denis and have stiuck to their guns to this.

So now he works hard.

can't coach (not that I would ever say that mind you, i'll just imply it) but words hard.

Jesus this is one weird off season.

Fail you bastards

but fail the way i want or you are failing.


Ego is not a dirty word

Unless its Lance we are talking about

and then its wash your mouth out with soap.


I think we should frame this thread, this thrtead challenges Monty Python

Its a John Cleese silly walk with words.

I love this thread, i can stop laughing....

Yes yes yes, it is all Lances and Koutas fault. Last year it was Campo's fault. The year before it was that Ruckman bloke from Nth Melb whose name who escapes me or was that the year before? I sort of lose track of the various scapegoats . Our getting caught was that O'Reilly fellows fault. Definately.

Anyone who questions Koutas preparation or dedication to the cause has rocks in his head. Lance has played the last three seasons carrying injuries, it was no co-incidence that he played well in the last half of the season when he was able to get full movement in his knee. Fev had a groin injury and should not have been playing.

Our poor performance over the last few years cannot be placed solely on one or two players. It is a simplistic solution for simplistic people. Our poor performance was due to a wide range of factors that all contributed to the end result. We need a lot to go right if we are to improve, not just one or two players.