Well if you cant see that you arent looking at the games closely enough.
Pick out any game... any game at all when Lance is in the forward line with Fev... and Stevo, Kouta, Scotland and Campo are in the midfield.
Watch the velocity the ball comes out of our attack straight into our defence.
Watch how many times kids like Sporn and Walker were shot by running off their man to cover a loose man that a senior player hadnt bothered to run back with....
That kills kids that does!!!

And you mean to tell me Lance is a better bet at FB on Tarrant than Livingston is???



Were hiding Lance..... were looking for a hole on the ground we can hide him in... because he is exposed and vulnerable....
Weve had to create a role for Lance .. conjure one up... a role with limited shelf life to anyone that has oplayed it because you usually play a dud there....and then they get worked out.

Im not takling like a Hodge type of looseman across half back.. he damages you!!!.. im talking the Cloke type role....
Livo at least plays a fair dinkum possie.....

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Hang on a minute? Show me where I said Lance should be on Tarrant? You can make your comments like, you don't watch the games enough, but I was there, week after week watching guys @#$%&! up their passes into our forward line when they were 5 or 10 metres in the clear. Not sure what games you were at.

Nothing shits me more than people saying I said something when I didn't, show me where I said Lance should have played on Tarrant?

Livo may play a fair dinkum possie but he's shit at it, for a number four pick he is a disgrace.

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Forgotten, but not gone

No you didnt say it.. because you know why???
Lance doesnt have a position in the heat of the game anymore....
You can criticise Livo for being spanked by Tarrant but at least he did it in a bonefide position.
Not a conjured up possie we had to make up for him to play football in 2005 and beyond.

Lance has it too easy.
He gets paid the big bucks to not play the power roles.(thats the disgrace)
Livo gets paid bugger all to play the power role but he is very average...

You pay big bucks for the power roles.. and you pay pittance for peripheral roles.
Lance is a peripheral player these days...He should be getting paid to play a major role... that was the trouble with Campo.. huge bucks doing the run past role. (badly i might add)...

Thats why were [REDACTED]!!!

Thats my point...

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Hey, aren't we talking about Lance on the other thread??

Calling Livo average is very lofty I reckon, he's shit and there's no way around it. I don't care where he plays on the field, he's shit and whether it's in a fair dinkum possie or not I couldn't care less.

He won't deliver anything to us, he's had his chances. C Graders who will deliver, Livo ain't one of them.

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Forgotten, but not gone

I dont know if Livo will or will not deliver.. he does his best if its not good enough you cant bag him for it.

I prefer concentrating on those who can do more.. and make some of the kids jobs easier not harder....and they dont!!!

theyre an albatross around our neck.

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But you were asking about C Graders who would deliver next year, not blokes who could do more but aren't?

I reckon we've got more chance of getting something out of someone who can show they can play, like a Davies or even Bannister than a Livo who has time and again shown he is out of his depth at AFL level.

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Forgotten, but not gone

Despite his faults,i want Livo to come good.There is something wholesome about this guy that i love.But he has to do more thats for sure.
The bloke i reckon can really play and has a heap of talent is Longmuir.Super player when he is on.Could really wreak havoc on the forward line if he can hold onto 'em.A far better player than he is given credit for by most TCers.
And i agree with The Big Sinner RE: forward line pressure.We do get murdered on the rebound.

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All my dangerous friends

Davies & Sporn are two "C Graders" which I think could surprise next year and beyond. I'd like to see Davies play as an inside midfielder and not in the forward line however.

I don't think Livo is that bad one on one defending. Top players usually make him look bad but he does ok on 2nd or 3rd forwards. The problem he has is when he has the ball and doesn't know what to do. He s$%^ himself and f%^& up all the time and it is too costly having a guy like that in your defence.

Davies is shot IMO.

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Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Digby is gone...
Norman is gone...
T Bird is better at HB.
Lance cant play the main posts.

Livo should get plenty of opportunity this season coming.Thats why i think he will come good.
He certainly looks like a monster now... that should help him.

Id love to give Davies a few weeks in the back pocket.

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You disappointed me Synbad I thought I was gonna get a post where you tell me it's Lance or Kouta's fault Livo sh#$% himelf.

I agree with those 2 - problem with Davies is a lack of belief.
Livo on the other hand is not up to it, I hope he steps up but I really can’t see that happening. Panics badly under pressure which subsequently hurts us.

Reading the training reports on the Carlton forums and the news seems to be all positive for Davies. Apparently he has been working pretty hard and this all points to good year in my view because he has the talent.

and you know how i hate disappointing you.....


As for Livo???
No Carlton side has ever been as bad as the one we have currently.
No Carlton defence has ever had to stem a tide that this one has.

His first season in the firsts was prety admirable till Britain played him FB on a rampaging Neitz who slaughtered him in the last game.. maybe second last..

Livo still has a twitch from that game.. and the twitch has Britains name on it not Neitz,.

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I reckon he does ok on the 2nd tier forwards, you get no argument from me there. The problem I see with him is when he gets the ball he stuffs up more times than not.
Carlton supporters have high standards on their defenders because we have been spoilt. I even heard Thornton being criticised when Barry Hall took him to the cleaners. SOS used to take care of all the top liners now the current crop are the victim of high standards.l

Livo was a CHF when he was drafted.
His main strength was to mark and he had days he marked well into the teens.
There was a game a couple of years ago for the Bullies where Livo marked like 12 or 14 marks and was injured early in the last 1/4.
Now you can get 12 marks the way Tarrant gets them... (on the wing alone).. or you can get them in the hotspot..i know it was only VFL but he was amazing.. 3/4 of them were highly contested.

I also have heard Elshaug tell Livo "Dpnt try and mark Livo .. punch!!"at training a few times..

Now for a kid who wasnt an accurate kick but a very good mark.. we have taken his main weapon away from him.. stcuk him in the very worst team of the comp in the last 4 years... given him the hardest position on the ground and the ball coming in at a ahundred miles an hour...

Then on top of that he has had some pretty bad injuries from a twisted bowel where he has almost died.. to a back injury which still effects him..

He did ok last year before his injury in round 1... even outmuscled a few blokes one on one...

Livo needs confidence.. that confidence will come with him feeling like he belongs.. and some faith!!!

Pissed me off last year when he was dropped for the Darwin game.. he needed that game!!!
Symonds looked like he was on the scrapheap a couple of days ago too...

Livo has it to be a steady AFL player.. he needs help with his confidence.

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I'll move onto Prenda, I thought he was gonna have a big year this year but he had a shocker. I think he can still come good if we just leave him on a wing. Hopefully now we have McClaren he can be relieved of ruck duties.

See i think Bower and Edwards have signed Prendas death warrant.

He isnt a KPP so is a tall flanker/ wingman.. his best football is on the wing.
Its also his ability to run out a game that is his main positive.
Good bloke.. tries really hard but if he cant play KP then its going to be very hard for him to stay on the list long term.
His problem is he cant read the flight of the ball.. and because he cant focusses too much on the opposition player .. actually thats a problem with alot of our defenders. With some its confidence.. with Prenda its he has no idea where the ball is going.. sometimes when youre watching him watch the ball in flight he looks like hes blind.

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One poster on Talking Carlton has said that the one and only Mark Athorn was better than Livo.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5926&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=athorn&start=105