Brendon Bolton - Carlton coach 2015-2019

camel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:00 am

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

Nah, it's his height.

Short guy = bottom of the ladder.

GET MATTHEW CLARKE!!!

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18030

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

Not even close

Well what is it?
The number of barbecues he invites them to?
If you know what it isn't, you must know what it is by a process of elimination.

We've totally rebuilt the list and loaded the team up with kids. Boltons ability will be judged by how he develops the players individually and collectively, how the chemistry is developed amongst the playing group, whether we play a game style that utilises the capability of the list, whether the players are utilised to maximise their potential individually and collectively.
Whether the game style will stand up under pressure. How he utilises the skills of the coaching group and allows them to develop and improve.
His communication skills with the players and coaches. His willingness to adapt, educate and improve his own skillset and whether he puts the appropriate processes in place to create a successful, winning environment.
If all of the appropriate processes are successfully implemented, the results will follow.

Chris Fagan coached the Brisbane Lions in 2017. They won 5 games. He coached them again in 2018, they won 5 games.
They lost their first 8 games in 2018. In Round 4 they scored 1.4 to half time against Richmond and scored 2.5 for the match.
Yet at the end of 2018, players wanted to go there, the football public talked them up and the media were in love with them. Yet they won 5 games again.
Why? Because people were able to look beyond the win/loss column and see the development. The youngsters improvement was evident. Their percentage for the year was significantly improved. They were in games for much longer and their competitiveness was significantly improved.Yet they still only won one of their last 6 games. They're currently second on the ladder.
Brisbane last year is where I see us this year. If Bolts cant keep a reasonably linear development line from this point, fine. I'll be critical as well.
But understand where the list is in it's development, what is a reasonable expectation and what the future holds.

It's much more than win/loss that decides the coach of a young, developing team. It's unfortunate that some posters on this forum either refuses to or cant see the difference.

BluesRockMyWorld · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm **Posts:** 1341

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

Not even close

Well what is it?
The number of barbecues he invites them to?
If you know what it isn't, you must know what it is by a process of elimination.

We've totally rebuilt the list and loaded the team up with kids. Boltons ability will be judged by how he develops the players individually and collectively, how the chemistry is developed amongst the playing group, whether we play a game style that utilises the capability of the list, whether the players are utilised to maximise their potential individually and collectively.
Whether the game style will stand up under pressure. How he utilises the skills of the coaching group and allows them to develop and improve.
His communication skills with the players and coaches. His willingness to adapt, educate and improve his own skillset and whether he puts the appropriate processes in place to create a successful, winning environment.
If all of the appropriate processes are successfully implemented, the results will follow.

Chris Fagan coached the Brisbane Lions in 2017. They won 5 games. He coached them again in 2018, they won 5 games.
They lost their first 8 games in 2018. In Round 4 they scored 1.4 to half time against Richmond and scored 2.5 for the match.
Yet at the end of 2018, players wanted to go there, the football public talked them up and the media were in love with them. Yet they won 5 games again.
Why? Because people were able to look beyond the win/loss column and see the development. The youngsters improvement was evident. Their percentage for the year was significantly improved. They were in games for much longer and their competitiveness was significantly improved.Yet they still only won one of their last 6 games. They're currently second on the ladder.
Brisbane last year is where I see us this year. If Bolts cant keep a reasonably linear development line from this point, fine. I'll be critical as well.
But understand where the list is in it's development, what is a reasonable expectation and what the future holds.

It's much more than win/loss that decides the coach of a young, developing team. It's unfortunate that some posters on this forum either refuses to or cant see the difference.

BV I agree x 100. :clap:

The Duke · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:55 am

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

Not even close

Well what is it?
The number of barbecues he invites them to?
If you know what it isn't, you must know what it is by a process of elimination.

We've totally rebuilt the list and loaded the team up with kids. Boltons ability will be judged by how he develops the players individually and collectively, how the chemistry is developed amongst the playing group, whether we play a game style that utilises the capability of the list, whether the players are utilised to maximise their potential individually and collectively.
Whether the game style will stand up under pressure. How he utilises the skills of the coaching group and allows them to develop and improve.
His communication skills with the players and coaches. His willingness to adapt, educate and improve his own skillset and whether he puts the appropriate processes in place to create a successful, winning environment.
If all of the appropriate processes are successfully implemented, the results will follow.

Chris Fagan coached the Brisbane Lions in 2017. They won 5 games. He coached them again in 2018, they won 5 games.
They lost their first 8 games in 2018. In Round 4 they scored 1.4 to half time against Richmond and scored 2.5 for the match.
Yet at the end of 2018, players wanted to go there, the football public talked them up and the media were in love with them. Yet they won 5 games again.
Why? Because people were able to look beyond the win/loss column and see the development. The youngsters improvement was evident. Their percentage for the year was significantly improved. They were in games for much longer and their competitiveness was significantly improved.Yet they still only won one of their last 6 games. They're currently second on the ladder.
Brisbane last year is where I see us this year. If Bolts cant keep a reasonably linear development line from this point, fine. I'll be critical as well.
But understand where the list is in it's development, what is a reasonable expectation and what the future holds.

It's much more than win/loss that decides the coach of a young, developing team. It's unfortunate that some posters on this forum either refuses to or cant see the difference.

Different opinion. Deal with it.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18030

Nothing for me to deal with. He asked a question, I gave an answer. I'm not losing sleep over your ignorance.

Blue Monday · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:45 pm **Posts:** 273

Betting agencies still showing reasonably short odds for a Sydney this week

Yet, based on the messaging coming out from the club, supporters and commentators (re non acceptance of honorable losses, Sydney midfield woes and injuries etc), seems like that there's is a very high expectation of a Carlton win this week

Get the feeling the blow torch will really be on Bolts if Carlton lose, no matter the reasons...

Sidefx · **Joined:** Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm **Posts:** 6547

I don't actually get why people are so fixated on this week being a 100% "we should win" against Sydney and if not the coach is on the line. What because they've lost the first 2 games of the year? To me that is more of a concern, because as some think that this is a winnable game for us, I'm pretty sure they are thinking the same thing about us.
Not to mention they are still one of the best defensive sides in the comp and we are the worst offensive side, plus;
- They are a much more experienced side (1 x 300, 5 x 200, 6 x 100 plus v our 1 x 300, 2 x 200, 5 x 100 plus gamers).
- They are the 2nd highest goal kicking side from last year.
- Their midfield is more experienced, mature and have better cohesion.

I'm personally going into this game hoping the boys can run harder than them, contest for longer than the last two rounds, get the better of a few of their key players and hopefully come out with a win. But if they don't, then I hope it's another step in the right direction and we can see they are getting better team cohesion and individual improvements than the last week.

AGRO · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:12 pm

I’m just going so I can get an Embassy Taxi Burger and a plate of Chips before the game.

:thumbsup:

toddkurnski · **Joined:** Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am **Posts:** 3581

Sidefx wrote:

I don't actually get why people are so fixated on this week being a 100% "we should win" against Sydney

I just want a win. I want the players to gain the confidence a win brings.

Can’t speak for everyone else, but I imagine we are all just so sick of losing and Sydney are a middling team who can be knocked off if we play near our best.

There can be plenty more analysis about the hows and whys but getting off the duck is what the club needs.

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

A season with 0 wins with an average losing margin of 2 goals.

A season with 1 win and 21 losing games with an average losing margin of 10 goals.

Which season looks better for the coach?

The Duke · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:24 pm

Wojee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

A season with 0 wins with an average losing margin of 2 goals.

A season with 1 win and 21 losing games with an average losing margin of 10 goals.

Which season looks better for the coach?

You mean the unemployed coach?

robertbb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm **Posts:** 9354

ease up Duke... :razz:

Blue Sombrero · **Posted:** Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:44 am

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

Not even close

Well what is it?
The number of barbecues he invites them to?
If you know what it isn't, you must know what it is by a process of elimination.

We've totally rebuilt the list and loaded the team up with kids. Boltons ability will be judged by how he develops the players individually and collectively, how the chemistry is developed amongst the playing group, whether we play a game style that utilises the capability of the list, whether the players are utilised to maximise their potential individually and collectively.
Whether the game style will stand up under pressure. How he utilises the skills of the coaching group and allows them to develop and improve.
His communication skills with the players and coaches. His willingness to adapt, educate and improve his own skillset and whether he puts the appropriate processes in place to create a successful, winning environment.
If all of the appropriate processes are successfully implemented, the results will follow.

Chris Fagan coached the Brisbane Lions in 2017. They won 5 games. He coached them again in 2018, they won 5 games.
They lost their first 8 games in 2018. In Round 4 they scored 1.4 to half time against Richmond and scored 2.5 for the match.
Yet at the end of 2018, players wanted to go there, the football public talked them up and the media were in love with them. Yet they won 5 games again.
Why? Because people were able to look beyond the win/loss column and see the development. The youngsters improvement was evident. Their percentage for the year was significantly improved. They were in games for much longer and their competitiveness was significantly improved.Yet they still only won one of their last 6 games. They're currently second on the ladder.
Brisbane last year is where I see us this year. If Bolts cant keep a reasonably linear development line from this point, fine. I'll be critical as well.
But understand where the list is in it's development, what is a reasonable expectation and what the future holds.

It's much more than win/loss that decides the coach of a young, developing team. It's unfortunate that

Great post and thank you for going to so much trouble.
A lot of effort to reply to a tongue in cheek post to begin with and not a serious question.
It's unfortunate that some posters on this forum either refuse to or cant see the difference.
:razz:

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7210

Blue Vain wrote:

Whether the game style will stand up under pressure. How he utilises the skills of the coaching group and allows them to develop and improve.
His communication skills with the players and coaches. His willingness to adapt, educate and improve his own skillset and whether he puts the appropriate processes in place to create a successful, winning environment.
If all of the appropriate processes are successfully implemented, the results will follow.

100% this is where it's at for our club right now. i'd also add his gameday strategy & adaptability to the list as well. it's kinda weird that after 3 years of bolton being here, none of us are any closer to definitively answering those questions (other than his communication to the players, which everyone internal and external highly rate).

Braithy · **Joined:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm **Posts:** 7210

by pure coincidence, i've watched all of geelong's games this season. early doors and all that

... but fk me. there's a bunch of no name players that seemingly have come from no where and aren't contributing, they're totally bossing it. geelong's player development is something else. even henderson looks like a premiership player over there.

it made me wonder with all of our recognisable top-tier talent here ... what a club like geelong would do with it, and where they'd be on the trajectory curve if they were us right now. would they be a 10 win team this season? more? less??

trivial fact:

the cats haven't had a top 10 draft pick in over a decade ... and the fact they're always there abouts is testament to developing players to play to their ability and in some cases exceed it.

what they're doing is second to none, really.

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

The Duke wrote:

Wojee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

A season with 0 wins with an average losing margin of 2 goals.

A season with 1 win and 21 losing games with an average losing margin of 10 goals.

Which season looks better for the coach?

You mean the unemployed coach?

Sure, which season looks better for the unemployed coach?
:thumbsup:

BigKev · **Posted:** Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:45 am

Wojee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

A season with 0 wins with an average losing margin of 2 goals.

A season with 1 win and 21 losing games with an average losing margin of 10 goals.

Which season looks better for the coach?

Who was the win against?

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

BigKev wrote:

Wojee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

Wojee wrote:

I personally don't think you can judge a coach's ability to communicate with and inspire players based on press conferences and made-for-fans video content.

Great post.
It's the win loss ration that decides that.

Well isn't it?

A season with 0 wins with an average losing margin of 2 goals.

A season with 1 win and 21 losing games with an average losing margin of 10 goals.

Which season looks better for the coach?

Who was the win against?

Dopers of course.

robertbb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm **Posts:** 9354

Braithy wrote:

by pure coincidence, i've watched all of geelong's games this season. early doors and all that

... but fk me. there's a bunch of no name players that seemingly have come from no where and aren't contributing, they're totally bossing it. geelong's player development is something else. even henderson looks like a premiership player over there.

it made me wonder with all of our recognisable top-tier talent here ... what a club like geelong would do with it, and where they'd be on the trajectory curve if they were us right now. would they be a 10 win team this season? more? less??

trivial fact:

the cats haven't had a top 10 draft pick in over a decade ... and the fact they're always there abouts is testament to developing players to play to their ability and in some cases exceed it.

what they're doing is second to none, really.

Not sure what game you were watching, but Henderson's spudding it up there just as much as he did for us.

Agree, they seem to develop well but it's far easier for their younger players to look good around a team they've been able to put together with free agents, father-son favourites and concessions.

How do you reckon Walsh or Dow would look running around with Danger, Ablett and Selwood? ;-)

They've recently taken Dalhaus from the 'dogs, Tuohey from us...

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35135

Henderson was putrid.

Brendon Bolton - Carlton coach 2015-2019

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