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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 1392
Rexy wrote:
verbs wrote:
I feel the biggest problem is, anyone under 23 is "developing their craft". Junior players, despite being played every week, are going into every game as a learning experience so they can "develop their craft" rather than going out there to dazzle, back themselves and create like they did in junior games. Top draft picks were selected in the elite portion of the draft because they were the best talent. Then they get to Carlton and are possibly made to feel like dunces who need to play 70 games before they can understand what it takes to play AFL footy.


The danger of having so many coaches with an emphasis on defence is the players get too defensive.


There were better signs against Collingwood and Port. Went back in shell against Brisbane.

Weitering is the prime example of this. He has been caught a few times from a loose ball but when he marks and plays on from defence it is a good sign for him and us.
Also last week when Cutler missed early, Marchbank had to almost pushed his way past Weitering to bag him about missing. This is the same guy who was bagging Riewoldt in his first game.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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Blueboy74 wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
verbs wrote:
I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58


What would make more interesting reading is average games played.

As easy it is to look at age and experience to find the cause of our current position, like everything in life the answer is just not that simple.

Take a look at Brisbane who we have been compared with, they look so much better than we do because they have been able to settle on a structure and teach the young kids how to play their position. They also recruited Hodge to act as an on field coach to accelerate their development.

How do you think Brisbane would be going if they had to play inexperienced player in different role every week as a makeshift team because of the injuries. To put it in perspective we have had zero games this year with no changes and only 2 games without players lost to injury, compare that to brisbane with 4 games on no changes and 9 games without injury.

Brisbane injury list - 5
Carlton injury list - 15

I know that this is just an excuse, so lets put this in perspective. How do you think whatever business you are working for was to change everyone position every week and what impact that would have on it's customers, sales and profitability?

Pretty sure I would not want the janitor performing my surgery....


Yeah, but what if you're only going in for a clean up?

....I'll see myself out. :oops:


You're too humble...I thought it was worth a chuckle.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Someone on SEN yesterday told Cornes (who I don't mind listening to by the way...), what about fat coaches telling players how unfit they are or why they're not getting a game because of skinfolds etc.

There's a 5 minute stand up show we can create with coaches not practicing what they preach

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:19 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Posts: 20076
jim wrote:
camelboy wrote:


https://twitter.com/TalkingCarlton/stat ... 6850441216

Kane Cornes picking the low-hanging fruit.


Sadly with Victorian clubs it has 100% bad failure rate appointing coaches that have never played. Of course, since 2001, we've either picked a coach that has never played or a dinosaur. All failed miserably. interestingly, the only one we appointed who was younger and had AFL experience, alot as a star, was the one that did pretty well.

McCartney was the previous coach to coach without AFL experience. They were worse than us in 2014. Chopped during their rebuild. Appoint Beveridge, 2 years later, premiers.

Problem, AFL boy's club culture still dictates....."it's alright for him to be demanding so much of us when he just sits in the coaching box never having done it himself".


Beveridge won a premiership in a perfect year, not much else before or since.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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How many coaches who have played AFL have coached unsuccessful seasons?
The players appear to be on board. That's good enough for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Garry Crane

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This should make it easy to sack him he is that far off the mark its not funny this game style he has implemented
is a lot worse that what malthouse had us playing SACK HIM NOW


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yeah, that'll solve everything.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Whatever one can say about our side, it's alot better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats by two of the bottom sides.

Bolts isn't the man unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jim wrote:
Whatever one can say about our side, it's alot better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats by two of the bottom sides.

Bolts isn't the man unfortunately.



no we're not better than that. at least half a team not at afl standard.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
jim wrote:
Whatever one can say about our side, it's alot better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats by two of the bottom sides.

Bolts isn't the man unfortunately.



no we're not better than that. at least half a team not at afl standard.


We've cut our list hard only to bring in spuds. We've extended the contracts of spuds. The buck stops with the coach.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Duke wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
jim wrote:
Whatever one can say about our side, it's alot better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats by two of the bottom sides.

Bolts isn't the man unfortunately.



no we're not better than that. at least half a team not at afl standard.


We've cut our list hard only to bring in spuds. We've extended the contracts of spuds. The buck stops with the coach.

I think what you're referring to there stops with the list manager.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
jim wrote:
Whatever one can say about our side, it's alot better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats by two of the bottom sides.

Bolts isn't the man unfortunately.



no we're not better than that. at least half a team not at afl standard.



Correct!

And that's the list manager's responsibility!

But he can't be criticised, so blame the coach!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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So the first two years Bolton had Carlton exceeding expectations.

This year, nearly everything that can go wrong in terms of injuries has and we are performing poorly.

So two out of three he's done well but people want him sacked. Not great logic.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
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I actually feel for Bolts. I really do. This year has been a cluster @#$%&! of adversity.

Sacking him is not the answer imho and will cripple us even further.

But we also can’t allow performances like the last two weeks to continue.

Quite the conundrum.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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MPH78 wrote:
I actually feel for Bolts. I really do. This year has been a cluster @#$%&! of adversity.

Sacking him is not the answer imho and will cripple us even further.

But we also can’t allow performances like the last two weeks to continue.

Quite the conundrum.

The people in this thread have the solution. Sakcing one guy will solve everything.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:50 pm 
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John Nicholls
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For those wanted him sacked, who would you have in mind to replace him?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Why does it take 3 quarters for Rowe to get moved into the ruck?
Why did we play Rowe, Marchbank, Jones and SOJ back together against 2 bigs?
Why do we refuse to keep a structure forward of the centre?
Do we even know what how to use the corridor?
Why are our midfield stoppages the worse in the league? Is Barker our stoppage coach?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The next 2 months will really test the Carlton administration as to whether it's still the cheating, chequebook, quick-fix, impatient mob from the past or whether it it's a club that can think long term.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
SurreyBlue wrote:
Why does it take 3 quarters for Rowe to get moved into the ruck? And that would have changed what?
Why did we play Rowe, Marchbank, Jones and SOJ back together against 2 bigs? Rowe & SOJ are not AFL standard at the moment
Why do we refuse to keep a structure forward of the centre? Because we have no midfield
Do we even know what how to use the corridor? No, because we have no midfield
Why are our midfield stoppages the worse in the league? Because we have no midfield Is Barker our stoppage coach?


I'll spell it out...

We have no midfield

or small/mid sized forwards


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Effes wrote:
So the first two years Bolton had Carlton exceeding expectations.

This year, nearly everything that can go wrong in terms of injuries has and we are performing poorly.

So two out of three he's done well but people want him sacked. Not great logic.


Not saying Bolts being sacked will fix everything, but I wouldn't say his first two seasons exceeded expectations. There was that great run where we won 6 out of 7, other than that we've been below average at best and embarrassing at worst.

There are myriad reasons why we're so terrible - recruitment of useless castoffs, appalling fitness/injury management, poor skills, poor strategy, poor leadership, absent in-game management- so I guess it's really a question of whether the players are still playing for this coach. The on-field evidence doesn't look good.


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