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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


You talking about the same dumbarses that continuously kick the ball into the man on the mark, miss easy targets/shots at goal, make basic schoolboy errors?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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The Duke wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


Nailed it!

We've taken players in recent years that everyone claimed would be drafted at or around that spot. We have a habit of turning chocolates into boiled lollies.

For delisting spuds to bring in potatoes, then use the excuse of 'synergy' as to why the group aren't doing what they've been told.

Bolts has cut way too hard and he's failed to bring in capable footballers to replace those he let go.


Bolton is not our list manager!!!

There's a reason why a lot the players at Carlton have already been delisted by their prior clubs or are unwanted or released by their clubs while they've still been contracted!!

Because they're boiled lollies, but our list manager thinks they're chocolates!

Our list is flowered, and that's obvious to everyone!

It's why we struggle to attract good players


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:42 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


Our current defensive unit are dumbasses. Harsh yes, but they aren’t high IQ footballers.

Our results would be different if we had a stable back 6-7 from Doc, Weitering, Plowman, Byrne, Marchbank, Willo, Simmo, ASOS and Macreadie.

We had Rowe, Jones, Lamb, JSOS, Daisy and Weitering.

JSOS was the smartest and best user back there, yet he has played two games in defence. Weitering just isn’t coping with the lack of support and game style.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


OR

The players we have are not skillful enough as a group to execute the game plan.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:53 pm 
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John Nicholls
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bluechucky wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


OR

The players we have are not skillful enough as a group to execute the game plan.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bluechucky wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


OR

The players we have are not skillful enough as a group to execute the game plan.

Fair call, but I remember a Carlton Coach named Ron Barassi saying something similar to, ''We expect players to be able to kick, mark and handball when they get to us. Then we teach them the finer points''.
Maybe the last bit is where we're failing ?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We are too slow ... and we bring no intensity to games and each contest ... which is what is required in order to be competitive

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Yes. we have injuries this year.
Collingwood have had just as many if not more yet they are sitting second on the ladder.
Maybe Bolton just cannot coach.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1651
ColourMan wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Re: D Smith.

There are different versions of this rumour, but the core theme is that he wasn't considered "medically safe".

Since he's been at * he's not missed a game and playing career-best footy.

If this is true, it says to me that either
a) Our medicos got it wrong
b) Our medicos (or Smith) had no faith in their ability to manage him
c) * had better drugs (hardy har har)

We harp on injuries and player management, but you can't tell me potential FA's and trade targets wouldn't look at what's happened to the wellbeing of this team as a big factor in their decision to move across.

The coach is FAR from the only issue we're facing.


Smith chose the Bombers

Smith had 2 priorities, winning and rehab


And nothing to do with $$$ offered?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
kezza wrote:
Yes. we have injuries this year.
Collingwood have had just as many if not more yet they are sitting second on the ladder.
Maybe Bolton just cannot coach.


:lol:

Really? Have you compared the lists?

Count up how many genuine mids are on the Pies list?

Then count our mids, that won't take long...

Then count their small/med size forwards, then ours...

See what you think then


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Rod Waddell wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Re: D Smith.

There are different versions of this rumour, but the core theme is that he wasn't considered "medically safe".

Since he's been at * he's not missed a game and playing career-best footy.

If this is true, it says to me that either
a) Our medicos got it wrong
b) Our medicos (or Smith) had no faith in their ability to manage him
c) * had better drugs (hardy har har)

We harp on injuries and player management, but you can't tell me potential FA's and trade targets wouldn't look at what's happened to the wellbeing of this team as a big factor in their decision to move across.

The coach is FAR from the only issue we're facing.


Smith chose the Bombers

Smith had 2 priorities, winning and rehab


And nothing to do with $$$ offered?


Nope


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Rod Waddell wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Re: D Smith.

There are different versions of this rumour, but the core theme is that he wasn't considered "medically safe".

Since he's been at * he's not missed a game and playing career-best footy.

If this is true, it says to me that either
a) Our medicos got it wrong
b) Our medicos (or Smith) had no faith in their ability to manage him
c) * had better drugs (hardy har har)

We harp on injuries and player management, but you can't tell me potential FA's and trade targets wouldn't look at what's happened to the wellbeing of this team as a big factor in their decision to move across.

The coach is FAR from the only issue we're facing.


Smith chose the Bombers

Smith had 2 priorities, winning and rehab


And nothing to do with $$$ offered?


$$$ was a factor with Rockliff

Rockliff's preference was to come home, however PA offered 4 years, we only offered 3 years


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 8631
ColourMan wrote:
WOW wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
We have one A grade midfielder
We have no B or C grade midfielders
We have some D grade midfielders, some who are young, and have been thrown in the deep end, and will get much, much better (i.e. who have A or B grade qualities, further development will help their consistency)

Our list structure is flowered

Compare our list structure to other clubs

Our list is lacking at least 6-8 mids

We are lacking small forwards both in quantity/quality, small forwards that can also run through the midfield in spurts

This is not Bolton's fault, he has lost arguments regarding the list

Other clubs use late selections/rookie list to constantly try new talent

We fill our list spots with castoffs from other clubs

Out of the approx 15 players brought from other clubs, only two have been primarily mids... one is already gone (Palmer), and the other is a D grader, who will get much better (we gave up pick 28)

We made overtures to Smith, Saad, Stringer and Rockliff last trade period.... they all went elsewhere, why?

The opposition know if they limit Cripps we're cooked, Pies used Pendlebury early in the year, PA used Wines, so they're happy sacrificing their best player to do so... even if Cripps isn't stopped we're still cooked, we have no midfield, no defensive pressure out of our midfield or forward half, which can cripple our fragile defensive structures

Then add our injury list and the mismanagement of our injured players with our flowered medical department

Half of the team yesterday would not get a game elsewhere or be on any other list

Bolton has made mistakes, but he's severely handcuffed

Bolton isn't the problem


For me, the biggest issue for the blues is the losing culture that has now embedded itself in the club

Although important, no amount of changes to a list will resolve this

The approach taken to disregard the wins/losses and focus on "the little wins" has backfired

Nothing beats the development of a player when winning games

They are completely demoralised at the moment

That's why the balance between a good core of senior players was paramount to establishing a winning culture and development of the younger playrts


Agree, exactly why Bolton was against trading Gibbs

Bolton was told senior mid(s) would be brought in to replace Gibbs, otherwise Gibbs wouldn't be traded.

What's happening is no surprise...

Can't win games with no midfield




Very true

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 15848
Taff wrote:
bluechucky wrote:
murraycray wrote:
Lets simplify it. Bolton as we have been told is head coach/ teacher. He has a game plan that he sees as the way forward. That game plan would appear to be flawed.

OR
The majority of the players are dumbarses unable to follow instructions. That IMO would be a bit of stretch.

SO
Where does that leave us ? Back with the previously mentioned game plan. Which then leads us back to the Coach.....

Too simplistic ?


OR

The players we have are not skillful enough as a group to execute the game plan.



meaning that a certain number of players are running out on the field knowing their mates aren't up to it. Defeated before we begin. Once the writing's on the wall, the floodgates open.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
kezza wrote:
Yes. we have injuries this year.
Collingwood have had just as many if not more yet they are sitting second on the ladder.
Maybe Bolton just cannot coach.


Which is exactly what they've said about Buckley for the past three years. But they are second. Guess all the people saying Buckley couldn't coach were wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Crippa wrote:
kezza wrote:
Yes. we have injuries this year.
Collingwood have had just as many if not more yet they are sitting second on the ladder.
Maybe Bolton just cannot coach.


Which is exactly what they've said about Buckley for the past three years. But they are second. Guess all the people saying Buckley couldn't coach were wrong.


Collingwood like North Melbourne’s have had a dream fixture (run).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:47 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Crippa wrote:
kezza wrote:
Yes. we have injuries this year.
Collingwood have had just as many if not more yet they are sitting second on the ladder.
Maybe Bolton just cannot coach.


Which is exactly what they've said about Buckley for the past three years. But they are second. Guess all the people saying Buckley couldn't coach were wrong.



the one comforting aspect with buckley if you were a pies fan, was he was one hell of a player and a leader and understood the game, playing it.

bolton is a true rookie of afl. never played, let alone lead, and never coached afl until here. of all the coaching appointments we've made, bolton was by far the riskiest.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:04 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:

So according to you, Bolton can come up with ideas from looking at tapes etc but once the game starts and the opposition change strategies, he's lost. The reality is there have been numerous games this year where other teams have countered us during games or started better and we have arrested back the momentum through tactics or structures. (Richmond, Sydney, Geelong, Collingwood, Eagles, Bulldogs, Crows) But no, this morning it only counts if we went on to win the game! :lol:

I'm happy for Bolton to be open to scrutiny (even by vultures like you) but let's be factual in our criticism. Just making up shit or throwing out the usual "plan A, plan B" rubbish by posters who wouldn't know a structure if one popped out of their Coco Pops just makes you look like even more of a fool. By all means he should be accountable for strategies etc but only if the criticisms of them have some semblance of fact related to them.



lol, you're really clutching at straws. we arrested back momentum, did we? and you call me a fool. haha

for example. not sure what game you were watching, but bolton never countered richmond in game one. rather it was Richmond & hardwick who figured us out at halftime, and with that spread zone we were using, told his players to run and carry at us, not try and kick it through us. by the 4th qtr, bolton - if he had any moves - still could have possibly saved that game at 3qtr time. but nah.

there hasn't been any evidence this year, that Bolton can coach and manoeuvre, counter, roll with a plan b within a game. his attention to detail and preparation for games gets (imo) a big tick. ie in the static environment of the training week and video sessions.

but once the ball is bounced, his matchups, strategies, and lack of a plan b shows up like dog balls. ie bolton doesn't react, or he isn't capable of reacting?

like many of said, we didn't have the defensive cattle for zone on the weekend. the obvious solution: play man on. turn every forward entry of the Lions into a contested matchup. it certainly would have slowed them down, rather than the frustrating free for all of watching hipwood score a career high.



apart from insults, you haven't thrown out anything here of worth for bolton, and with every passing post you just sound more one-eyed and more out of touch ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:07 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Braithy wrote:
lol, you're really clutching at straws. we arrested back momentum, did we? and you call me a fool. haha


Look at the scores, Look at the games. As I showed in my post, there were plenty of games where the opposition had momentum and we were able to halt it and turn it around. The reality is there to see for anyone. I'm not calling you a fool.
I'm simply highlighting where you're incorrect. If you come off looking like a fool, the responsibility doesn't rest with me. :thumbsup:

Braithy wrote:

apart from insults, you haven't thrown out anything here of worth for bolton



I'm not here to defend Bolton. :lol:
He's as open to scrutiny as anyone. I agree with others that some of the team selections have been baffling. But if you're going to have a go at him, make the effort to come up with something remotely honest. We're all happy to read credible, accurate analysis but the rubbish you're coming out with, highlighting the inaccuracy is like shooting fish in a barrel.
All I did was counter your post with facts. Don't be offended. Just make an effort to come up with something remotely correct and less laughable. There's plenty of us here hungry for accurate and honest analysis. The nonsense you're serving up just clouds the issue.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:08 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
lol, you're really clutching at straws. we arrested back momentum, did we? and you call me a fool. haha


Look at the scores, Look at the games. As I showed in my post, there were plenty of games where the opposition had momentum and we were able to halt it and turn it around. The reality is there to see for anyone. I'm not calling you a fool.
I'm simply highlighting where you're incorrect. If you come off looking like a fool, the responsibility doesn't rest with me. :thumbsup:

Braithy wrote:

apart from insults, you haven't thrown out anything here of worth for bolton



I'm not here to defend Bolton. :lol:
He's as open to scrutiny as anyone. I agree with others that some of the team selections have been baffling. But if you're going to have a go at him, make the effort to come up with something remotely honest. We're all happy to read credible, accurate analysis but the rubbish you're coming out with, highlighting the inaccuracy is like shooting fish in a barrel.
All I did was counter your post with facts. Don't be offended. Just make an effort to come up with something remotely correct and less laughable. There's plenty of us here hungry for accurate and honest analysis. The nonsense you're serving up just clouds the issue.


lol i'm not offended. just baffled. i find all your content just as laughable. i can't really recall too many actual facts you've come up with to support anything you're trying to say. there's been your opinion and your sweeping generalisations, but not many facts.

like, name an instance within a game this year, where bolton has shown he can react to the other coach's pressure and tactics? you know, coach the team. give me one tangible example to help me understand your point and why you constantly attack me for mine?

you seem far more willing to talk about our manpower, our injuries and lack of squad depth. imo, it's deflective of just how bad of a coach bolton actually is.


but two dudes arguing on a forum board mean little to the mess of a club we're following. time will tell all. we'll either persist with bolton until his contract is up, and if i'm right; we'll be lucky to still be in business (membership will be less than 20k, a whole gen of supporters will have jumped ship etc) if bolton's current trajectory of losing and inability is allowed to continue until 2020 ... or, if you're right, by 2020 we should not only be in the finals, we should competitive once there.


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