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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:49 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
smithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Plowman is not the issue on our list.


He most certainly is one of the issues, too small and weak to be a key back, too slow and cumbersome to play on smalls.
If he is carrying an injury he gets a pass but if he is fully fit then the game has past him by.
A shame because he looked very good in the St.Kilda JLT game, but since then he's been disgusting.


Jack Darling.
1st in the AFL for contested marks
3rd in the AFL for goals
3rd in the AFL for marks inside 50

Averaging 16 disposals, 3 goals per game, over 7.6 marks per game against the other teams this year.
Against Carlton, 8 possessions, no goals. Who was his main opponent? Plowman.

Disgusting this year? You're dreaming.


Not exactly overwhelming evidence.


Sure thing.
Giving you statistical evidence of him humbling one of the best forwards on current form isn't "exactly overwhelming evidence" that he hasn't been disgusting since the JLT. :grin:

Nice try.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sat May 12, 2018 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:49 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
There is also another elephant in the room, what if our injury list will always be this bad? Most of our GWS pick ups in particular are not exactly durable like Touhy was.
That was always a problem for me in our trades, not so much with our drafting. I wonder if we took this into account back then and maybe can improve on this aspect in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
Tuohey didn't play a game of AFL footy until he was 22 and a half so we're still miles in front with Marchbank.
Keep dredging though. I'm sure you and Braithy can come up with something that holds up to scrutiny before the year is out.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Sat May 12, 2018 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:00 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Plowman is not the issue on our list.


He most certainly is one of the issues, too small and weak to be a key back, too slow and cumbersome to play on smalls.
If he is carrying an injury he gets a pass but if he is fully fit then the game has past him by.
A shame because he looked very good in the St.Kilda JLT game, but since then he's been disgusting.


Jack Darling.
1st in the AFL for contested marks
3rd in the AFL for goals
3rd in the AFL for marks inside 50

Averaging 16 disposals, 3 goals per game, over 7.6 marks per game against the other teams this year.
Against Carlton, 8 possessions, no goals. Who was his main opponent? Plowman.

Disgusting this year? You're dreaming.



Not exactly overwhelming evidence.


Sure thing.
Giving you statistical evidence of him humbling one of the best forwards on current form isn't exactly overwhelming evidence that he hasn't been disgusting since the JLT. :grin:


One swallow does not a summer make. Humbling one of the "best forwards" you say? One that is well known for having frequent quiet games.How long did he play on him for exactly? 60% game time at best? Was Darling used as a decoy? What did Plowman do with the ball? Did he use it well? "Statistical evidence" can be misleading sometimes. Your so called overwhelming evidence isn't overwhelming at all :lol: it's probably not even correct. What else you got??

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:12 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
smithy wrote:
One swallow does not a summer make. Humbling one of the "best forwards" you say? One that is well known for having frequent quiet games.How long did he play on him for exactly? 60% game time at best? Was Darling used as a decoy? What did Plowman do with the ball? Did he use it well? "Statistical evidence" can be misleading sometimes.


Yeah, 3rd highest goal kicker in the AFL this year. Decoy.
As for Plowman, second highest disposal efficiency in the team on the day. Keep digging. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:28 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Blue Vain wrote:
Tuohey didn't play a game of AFL footy until he was 22 and a half so we're still miles in front with Marchbank.
Keep dredging though. I'm sure you and Braithy can come up with something that holds up to scrutiny before the year is out.


What strange logic.

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"Then joked and said he (Jack himself) probably wouldn't even need to play until round 2 against Collingwood."


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:31 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
One swallow does not a summer make. Humbling one of the "best forwards" you say? One that is well known for having frequent quiet games.How long did he play on him for exactly? 60% game time at best? Was Darling used as a decoy? What did Plowman do with the ball? Did he use it well? "Statistical evidence" can be misleading sometimes.


Yeah, 3rd highest goal kicker in the AFL this year. Decoy.
As for Plowman, second highest disposal efficiency in the team on the day. Keep digging. :lol:


You are the one digging mate, seem to remember Darling copping a nasty left hip knock in the first quarter of that game as well. I repeat; what else have you got?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:10 am 
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Ken Hunter
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'seem to remember Darling copping a nasty left hip knock in the first quarter of that game as well...'

seriously....

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
dannyboy wrote:
'seem to remember Darling copping a nasty left hip knock in the first quarter of that game as well...'

seriously....


Yes,he was injured in a marking contest.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:40 pm
Posts: 826
Smithy, what do you see as our positives at the moment?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Mots87 wrote:
Smithy, what do you see as our positives at the moment?


Fisher, Curnow, Mckay, Cripps, Dow, SPS our drafting has been good for the last 3 years. Still plenty of positives and I'm still bullish on where we will be in 5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:40 pm
Posts: 826
Yeah, we are coming from a fair way back mate.

I more confident of our path now than I have been for the last decade or so.

We are all Blueboys on here and all want success again.

It will happen.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
One swallow does not a summer make. Humbling one of the "best forwards" you say? One that is well known for having frequent quiet games.How long did he play on him for exactly? 60% game time at best? Was Darling used as a decoy? What did Plowman do with the ball? Did he use it well? "Statistical evidence" can be misleading sometimes.


Yeah, 3rd highest goal kicker in the AFL this year. Decoy.
As for Plowman, second highest disposal efficiency in the team on the day. Keep digging. :lol:


Hope you are watching the game today, how do you think he's going?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Location: St Helens
These role players like Plowman, Mullett, Lamb ect always look amazing in good teams and awful in poor teams. Every team has them.

Basically, a dominant midfield means forwards get more opportunity to look good. A weak midfield means the defenders are constantly under siege.

We won't really know how good our forwards, defenders, flankers etc are until we have a full strength mature midfield.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED

https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/995137040286076929

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:32 am 
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Craig Bradley
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does that mean they're deciding now to fastrack the rebuild?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:40 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
Tuohey didn't play a game of AFL footy until he was 22 and a half so we're still miles in front with Marchbank.
Keep dredging though. I'm sure you and Braithy can come up with something that holds up to scrutiny before the year is out.




i'm not sure why you relentlessly defend plowman. he is what he is. he's not the elite defender you make out, but he's also never our worst. he's a role player in a bottom 3 team backline. he's not electric, he's not tall, he's not small. not fast etc. no booming kick out of defense like say suckling. he is quite vanilla, but yes, he does a job.

can you name one of the top 6 teams where he'd be getting a game? our end game (after this torridly shitty rebuild) is to be one of the best teams in the afl. right now, I can't see him being a top 6 defender on an elite team. hope that changes, but his physical tools (imo) just aren't there.



it's a good point someone made about our GWS rejects we've picked up. the good ones like marchbank are constantly banged up, and the rest are real middle of the road (kennedy, plowman etc) to down right ordinary - sumner, jacksh etc


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:44 am 
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Rod Ashman
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smithy wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Plowman is not the issue on our list.


He most certainly is one of the issues, too small and weak to be a key back, too slow and cumbersome to play on smalls.
If he is carrying an injury he gets a pass but if he is fully fit then the game has past him by.
A shame because he looked very good in the St.Kilda JLT game, but since then he's been disgusting.


I disagree totally. From the games I have seen he works to the team structure and is one of a number playing team defence. He is not slow, he is just not explosive. Graham is slow and Plowman easily outdoes him for pace.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:50 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Who knows who Plow would play for - remember Laidler - from us to Sydney...it always depends on what a team thinks they need. I think he would end up at a lot of other clubs (even Richmond or Adelaide) biut I cannot prove it (just as you cannot prove he would not) but I think Plow has done a terrific job in a backline that has not functioned well - some see his mistakes (Hi Agro) somne see that in almost every instance where the Carlton backs are there in numbers, Plow is one of them, supporting, talking, assisting. I think he is a ripper. A superstar - no but a dependable backman who will play the role week in week out doing whatever/playing on whoever,. and always trying to work to the team's good, not his own. Essendon* could use a few like him.

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