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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:41 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:40 pm
Posts: 826
Thanks for explaining that Muzza.

Nothing worse than a flower poo, poo head in the team.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21407
Location: North of the border
BigBlueWave wrote:
IMO When recruiting from other clubs the following rules must apply:

    1.A and B Graders ... Recruit
    2.Young players who have not performed but show potential ... Recruit
    3.Players with a few seasons under their belt but have been delisted ... Never Recruit

For example:

1. Applys to Marchbank
2. Applys to Pickett
3. Applys to Mullet/O'Shea/Shaw

Of course ... we have been stung by rule 2 before ... but we have also had gains.
Rule 3 is the most important. Invariably C Graders and List Cloggers.
Rule 1 Never had a serious injury and gets on the park
Rule 2 is currently playing AFL and not in reserves
Rule 3 Comes from a side that consistently plays finals

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:41 pm
Posts: 2385
Mots87 wrote:
Thanks for explaining that Muzza.

Nothing worse than a flower poo, poo head in the team.

Absolutely. A former number 3 draft pick who is essentially holding an entirely depleted backline together that is fielding numerous incoming balls as a consequence of a non-functioning midfield.....poo poo head.

But there are plenty of discussions within this site about this guy so I won’t begin another.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:40 pm
Posts: 826
I think he's doing a very good job too mate.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Mots87 wrote:
I think he's doing a very good job too mate.

:thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4623
The Normal One wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
IMO When recruiting from other clubs the following rules must apply:

    1.A and B Graders ... Recruit
    2.Young players who have not performed but show potential ... Recruit
    3.Players with a few seasons under their belt but have been delisted ... Never Recruit

For example:

1. Applys to Marchbank
2. Applys to Pickett
3. Applys to Mullet/O'Shea/Shaw

Of course ... we have been stung by rule 2 before ... but we have also had gains.
Rule 3 is the most important. Invariably C Graders and List Cloggers.


Or 3. Provides depth to ease the load when kids are out of form or injured. This is more our plan for recruiting them I believe. Cheap 1yr contracts that serve a purpose tactically, not strategically.
Exactly... and make sure it costs nothing.. (except a list spot of course)

Go Blues

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:44 am 
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formerly BlueRob
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm
Posts: 3072
billc3 wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
IMO When recruiting from other clubs the following rules must apply:

    1.A and B Graders ... Recruit
    2.Young players who have not performed but show potential ... Recruit
    3.Players with a few seasons under their belt but have been delisted ... Never Recruit

For example:

1. Applys to Marchbank
2. Applys to Pickett
3. Applys to Mullet/O'Shea/Shaw

Of course ... we have been stung by rule 2 before ... but we have also had gains.
Rule 3 is the most important. Invariably C Graders and List Cloggers.




Or 3. Provides depth to ease the load when kids are out of form or injured. This is more our plan for recruiting them I believe. Cheap 1yr contracts that serve a purpose tactically, not strategically.
Exactly... and make sure it costs nothing.. (except a list spot of course)

Go Blues



I would argue players like Mullet and O'Shea offer no depth at all.

If we must recruit players from other clubs ... B Graders please. NOT players that have been well tried and disposed of by other clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6926
agreed.

we have this tendency to think we can get mileage out of other team's discarded retreads. it's almost arrogant, and it never ends well.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
OShea is one of the worst players I have seen in my years watching Carlton AND THATS A LONG TIME - don't see what he gives to the team nor possibly what our young list can learn from him t - very ordinary skills and even worse very ordinary decision maker - I generally support what SOS has done but why we wasted a pre-season draft pick and didn't use this pick to get a kid that wasn't picked up in the draft baffles me - surely a young midfielder was the go not another HBF - THE FACT ALSO THAT HE KEEPS GETTING PICKED is astounding - yes those who say Simon white was better are right


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Posts: 24612
Location: Kaloyasena
Pretty much agree with you Frank.

However as weird as this sounds I think the reason we listed him via the Northern Blues - was in fact to try and attract ex-AFL players to Northern in order to demonstrate that there is a pathway from Northern to Carlton.

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 Post subject: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:32 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
I think others have said that we should focus on mature age players for the rookie list.

Surely this would be considered this year. So many good players who aren’t superstars, but would offer midfield depth at worst.

Time to invest in matured bodies in the midfield to fast track our rebuild.

Duigan, Carrots, Curnow etc all gambles we took that turned out ok. Duigan only for a couple of years, but won us a final.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:14 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Normal One wrote:
I think others have said that we should focus on mature age players for the rookie list.

Surely this would be considered this year. So many good players who aren’t superstars, but would offer midfield depth at worst.

Time to invest in matured bodies in the midfield to fast track our rebuild.

Duigan, Carrots, Curnow etc all gambles we took that turned out ok. Duigan only for a couple of years, but won us a final.

Are there any cheapies from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL we can look at with age still on their side (ala Tim Kelly)?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:58 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Usually around a third of the way through the season we start having threads/posts about which GWS players we are targeting for the trade period - but quiet this year or is it a bit early.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:08 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21407
Location: North of the border
AGRO wrote:
Usually around a third of the way through the season we start having threads/posts about which GWS players we are targeting for the trade period - but quiet this year or is it a bit early.



get out from under that Rock AGRO - Dylan Sheils is sign sealed and delivered :razz:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3441
The biggest question is, philosophically, what do we do with the top-5 draft pick we'll have access to?

Do we go with a talented junior and say that the rebuilding process is on-going? Or do we trade it out for a talented player who will make an immediate impact, thus declaring that we're looking to immediately begin contending?


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 Post subject: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:16 pm
Posts: 276
bluechampion wrote:
The biggest question is, philosophically, what do we do with the top-5 draft pick we'll have access to?

Do we go with a talented junior and say that the rebuilding process is on-going? Or do we trade it out for a talented player who will make an immediate impact, thus declaring that we're looking to immediately begin contending?


Or do we offer up our pick -1 or 2 realistically- for say pick 5 and a player? Or pick 5 and 6?

With a deep draft and lots of talent being talked about this year I would say trading pick 1 or 2 for two top 10 picks would be worth a long look at.




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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:35 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 6926
bluechampion wrote:
The biggest question is, philosophically, what do we do with the top-5 draft pick we'll have access to?

Do we go with a talented junior and say that the rebuilding process is on-going? Or do we trade it out for a talented player who will make an immediate impact, thus declaring that we're looking to immediately begin contending?



I think we are too far away from having the depth to succeed and contend anytime soon. we have so much deadwood in the club right now.

which would rule out trading the draft pick for an established player. we probably need another few high draft picks, but our cupboard is bare to get any. ifear it's gonna be priority pick or bust for us, this offseason.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:33 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2129
I have limited my footy watching this year to On The Couch & Bits and pieces of a game on tv maybe every week or so...

The reason why On The Couch is the only thing I will definitely watch is I like Gerard Healy. And I like him as throughout the years he has shown an interest in the welfare of Carlton.

He wrote that article Blue Bears, which is available on the Blueseum.
http://www.blueseum.org/article211-The-Blue-Bears

Anyway, at the very end of On The Couch he broached the subject of Carlton.
He seemed genuinely concerned. His solution was if a team has been out of the finals for 3 or 4 years they get an extra pick at the end of the 1st Round.

I like the fact he is thinking about Carlton, but let's face facts. The draft doesn't solve anything under the present system. It would only really work if they gave a priority pick at the top of the draft, but they won't go back to this due to the perception of cheating. Anyway, more young kids thrown into a young team...it doesn't solve the inequity of a system that props up Tier 1 clubs.

I still haven't seen anyone answer why does Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney make the finals nearly EVERY year? I thought the AFL "equalised" comp. required teams to "rebuild".
Gerard is the type of thinker - concerned for the welfare of the game - that could answer this question.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:53 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Blisstonia.
tap in 79 wrote:
I have limited my footy watching this year to On The Couch & Bits and pieces of a game on tv maybe every week or so...

The reason why On The Couch is the only thing I will definitely watch is I like Gerard Healy. And I like him as throughout the years he has shown an interest in the welfare of Carlton.

He wrote that article Blue Bears, which is available on the Blueseum.
http://www.blueseum.org/article211-The-Blue-Bears

Anyway, at the very end of On The Couch he broached the subject of Carlton.
He seemed genuinely concerned. His solution was if a team has been out of the finals for 3 or 4 years they get an extra pick at the end of the 1st Round.

I like the fact he is thinking about Carlton, but let's face facts. The draft doesn't solve anything under the present system. It would only really work if they gave a priority pick at the top of the draft, but they won't go back to this due to the perception of cheating. Anyway, more young kids thrown into a young team...it doesn't solve the inequity of a system that props up Tier 1 clubs.

I still haven't seen anyone answer why does Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney make the finals nearly EVERY year? I thought the AFL "equalised" comp. required teams to "rebuild".
Gerard is the type of thinker - concerned for the welfare of the game - that could answer this question.


12 different clubs have won flags in the last 20 years.

Back in the "good old days", Carlton won 7 flags in 20 years, Collingwood made 40 GFs in 100 years, Hawks made 7 GFs in a row, and 50% of teams in a 12 team comp - St Kilda, Footscray, Geelong, Melbourne, Fitzroy and South Melbourne didn't win a flag between them in a 40 year period.

No-one had an issue when it was us benefiting.

I suggest you find another hobbyhorse, or stop yelling at clouds.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2018
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
tap in 79 wrote:
I have limited my footy watching this year to On The Couch & Bits and pieces of a game on tv maybe every week or so...

The reason why On The Couch is the only thing I will definitely watch is I like Gerard Healy. And I like him as throughout the years he has shown an interest in the welfare of Carlton.

He wrote that article Blue Bears, which is available on the Blueseum.
http://www.blueseum.org/article211-The-Blue-Bears

Anyway, at the very end of On The Couch he broached the subject of Carlton.
He seemed genuinely concerned. His solution was if a team has been out of the finals for 3 or 4 years they get an extra pick at the end of the 1st Round.

I like the fact he is thinking about Carlton, but let's face facts. The draft doesn't solve anything under the present system. It would only really work if they gave a priority pick at the top of the draft, but they won't go back to this due to the perception of cheating. Anyway, more young kids thrown into a young team...it doesn't solve the inequity of a system that props up Tier 1 clubs.

I still haven't seen anyone answer why does Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney make the finals nearly EVERY year? I thought the AFL "equalised" comp. required teams to "rebuild".
Gerard is the type of thinker - concerned for the welfare of the game - that could answer this question.


I watch OTC for the same reason.

He's a thinker of the game and highly respected by everyone.

I was lucky to have known Gerard from down the Peninsula. He came over to our place a few times after a surf, and even back then in the 80's he was always a thinker about his game and The game.

Great article too. Funny how things turned out. We got Judd too early....but then again he gave the club some belief, and added a pinch of professionalism. Pity we didnt have a couple more class players to help our cause.

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