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Taff
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:01 am 
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John Nicholls
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Braithy wrote:
here's hoping you're right. time will reveal all.



As always.

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99prelim
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
moshe25 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.



it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.
Yes, but same is true of an AFL playing experienced coach. Tony Shaw, Tim Watson, Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Brett Ratten, Murray Wiedeman, Bill Goggin, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Knights, Darrell Baldock, Bob Skilton. These are just completely off the top of my head - all were guns, most were premiership players, most were duds as coaches losing their players at some point.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Stop grandstanding with your statistical acumen

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Sydney Blue
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21550
Location: North of the border
moshe25 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.



it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.
Yes, but same is true of an AFL playing experienced coach. Tony Shaw, Tim Watson, Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Brett Ratten, Murray Wiedeman, Bill Goggin, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Knights, Darrell Baldock, Bob Skilton. These are just completely off the top of my head - all were guns, most were premiership players, most were duds as coaches losing their players at some point.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Barrass
Walls
Matthews
Roos
Blight
Nichols
Blight
Even Jezza
And Bomber Thompson was no mug player



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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GWS
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18658
Location: threeohfivethree
Sydney Blue wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.



it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.
Yes, but same is true of an AFL playing experienced coach. Tony Shaw, Tim Watson, Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Brett Ratten, Murray Wiedeman, Bill Goggin, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Knights, Darrell Baldock, Bob Skilton. These are just completely off the top of my head - all were guns, most were premiership players, most were duds as coaches losing their players at some point.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Barrass
Walls
Matthews
Roos
Blight
Nichols
Blight
Even Jezza
And Bomber Thompson was no mug player



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Great stats there Syd! :lol:

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Blue Vain
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18031
The Blight brothers hey?

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Sydney Blue
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21550
Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
The Blight brothers hey?
It was a Blight on my post

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bluedog
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 12593
Location: Brisbane
Here's a little song I wrote
I coach the Blues; we got no hope
I worry - once happy

Image

Image


Players injured all over the place
Club's a shambles, big disgrace
I worry - we're crappy

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

Members stalled at 50 grand
I think we need a helping hand
Please hurry - be snappy

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

Little SOS dropped to the twos
Another team that always lose
No depth - unhappy

Women's team, they just as bad
Captain Davey, she so mad
Wants out - so catty

Crippa gonna be next skip
Rest of team like Titanic ship
No icebergs - just slacky

Andy Mac was once a vet
A better football manager, you'd never get
Except maybe, Josh Caddy

As I said we ain't that great
17 just have to wait
Be patient- sooooooooooooooo patient...

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.
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bluedog
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 12593
Location: Brisbane
Inspired by Bobby McFerrin's sister and Carlton's VFLW coach, Shannon McFerran

Image

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.
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Braithy
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:36 pm 
Online
Craig Bradley
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 7235
bluedog wrote:
Here's a little song I wrote
I coach the Blues; we got no hope
I worry - once happy

Players injured all over the place
Club's a shambles, big disgrace
I worry - we're crappy

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

Members stalled at 50 grand
I think we need a helping hand
Please hurry - be snappy

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

Little SOS dropped to the twos
Another team that always lose
No depth - unhappy

Women's team, they just as bad
Captain Davey, she so mad
Wants out - so catty

Crippa gonna be next skip
Rest of team like Titanic ship
No icebergs - just slacky

Andy Mac was once a vet
A better football manager, you'd never get
Except maybe, Josh Caddy

As I said we ain't that great
17 just have to wait
Be patient- sooooooooooooooo patient...

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo


haha

I propose we play this at home games before the opening bounce.
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25302
Location: Bondi Beach
bluedog wrote:
Here's a little song I wrote
I coach the Blues; we got no hope
I worry - once happy

Image

Image


Players injured all over the place
Club's a shambles, big disgrace
I worry - we're crappy

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

Members stalled at 50 grand
I think we need a helping hand
Please hurry - be snappy

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo

Little SOS dropped to the twos
Another team that always lose
No depth - unhappy

Women's team, they just as bad
Captain Davey, she so mad
Wants out - so catty

Crippa gonna be next skip
Rest of team like Titanic ship
No icebergs - just slacky

Andy Mac was once a vet
A better football manager, you'd never get
Except maybe, Josh Caddy

As I said we ain't that great
17 just have to wait
Be patient- sooooooooooooooo patient...

Blue ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo oooo oooo ooo


Enjoyed the sing a long

Pretty much sums up things at present

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25302
Location: Bondi Beach
#IBELIEVE

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moshe25
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:22 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
99prelim wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.



it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.
Yes, but same is true of an AFL playing experienced coach. Tony Shaw, Tim Watson, Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Brett Ratten, Murray Wiedeman, Bill Goggin, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Knights, Darrell Baldock, Bob Skilton. These are just completely off the top of my head - all were guns, most were premiership players, most were duds as coaches losing their players at some point.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Stop grandstanding with your statistical acumen
:grin-

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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moshe25
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:23 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
Sydney Blue wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.



it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.
Yes, but same is true of an AFL playing experienced coach. Tony Shaw, Tim Watson, Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Brett Ratten, Murray Wiedeman, Bill Goggin, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Knights, Darrell Baldock, Bob Skilton. These are just completely off the top of my head - all were guns, most were premiership players, most were duds as coaches losing their players at some point.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Barrass
Walls
Matthews
Roos
Blight
Nichols
Blight
Even Jezza
And Bomber Thompson was no mug player



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Those Blights were both good players...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/
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Sydney Blue
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21550
Location: North of the border
It might be just a coincidence but currently the two side winless on the bottom of the ladder have coaches that have never played AFL/VFL
and I have had just a brief look and there hasn't been any coach that has won a premiership that has not played the game at the highest level

Sure there has been plenty of coaches that were great players that failed but the stats the other way are far worse

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Blue Boys
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:35 pm
Posts: 1234
Sydney Blue wrote:
It might be just a coincidence but currently the two side winless on the bottom of the ladder have coaches that have never played AFL/VFL
and I have had just a brief look and there hasn't been any coach that has won a premiership that has not played the game at the highest level

Sure there has been plenty of coaches that were great players that failed but the stats the other way are far worse

Yep that’s a reasonable stat, one that the club were probably aware of when the recruited bolts as head coach. Given Carlton’s current squad and injuries I couldn’t imagine we would be in a better place if we had another coach in place. Our list is a long way away from being in premiership contention, and I wouldn’t be blaming bolts for the state of our list.
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Heavs
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 17508
Location: Left Cuckistan
Sydney Blue wrote:
It might be just a coincidence but currently the two side winless on the bottom of the ladder have coaches that have never played AFL/VFL
and I have had just a brief look and there hasn't been any coach that has won a premiership that has not played the game at the highest level

Sure there has been plenty of coaches that were great players that failed but the stats the other way are far worse


Why's it not an issue in the NRL?

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The Duke
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Posts: 34527
Location: The Brown Wedge
Blue Boys wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
It might be just a coincidence but currently the two side winless on the bottom of the ladder have coaches that have never played AFL/VFL
and I have had just a brief look and there hasn't been any coach that has won a premiership that has not played the game at the highest level

Sure there has been plenty of coaches that were great players that failed but the stats the other way are far worse

Yep that’s a reasonable stat, one that the club were probably aware of when the recruited bolts as head coach. Given Carlton’s current squad and injuries I couldn’t imagine we would be in a better place if we had another coach in place. Our list is a long way away from being in premiership contention, and I wouldn’t be blaming bolts for the state of our list.


Yeah nah I disagree. Bolts has now been to the draft/trade period 3 times. I suggest that every player on our list has had his contract renewed or extended in that time. That makes every player HIS player.

Bolts is also responsible for the players de-listed, traded and drafted. He's responsible for the game plan and morale - for better or for worse.

Sure, call it a young and emerging list, but if you're not happy with quality of the list, you can't blame anyone but the current coaching dept.

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The Duke
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Posts: 34527
Location: The Brown Wedge
Heavs wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
It might be just a coincidence but currently the two side winless on the bottom of the ladder have coaches that have never played AFL/VFL
and I have had just a brief look and there hasn't been any coach that has won a premiership that has not played the game at the highest level

Sure there has been plenty of coaches that were great players that failed but the stats the other way are far worse


Why's it not an issue in the NRL?


Statistics prove that other sports are not comparable to the VFL/AFL.

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jim
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:18 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8213
Sydney Blue wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.



it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.
Yes, but same is true of an AFL playing experienced coach. Tony Shaw, Tim Watson, Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Brett Ratten, Murray Wiedeman, Bill Goggin, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Knights, Darrell Baldock, Bob Skilton. These are just completely off the top of my head - all were guns, most were premiership players, most were duds as coaches losing their players at some point.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Barrass
Walls
Matthews
Roos
Blight
Nichols
Blight
Even Jezza
And Bomber Thompson was no mug player



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Clarko, Bevo, Parko, Yabby Jeans, Jewell, Kennedy.

Anyway, shit or good player, playing ability has very little to do with your ability to coach. Two entirely separate entities/abilities.
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jim
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8213
Sydney Blue wrote:
It might be just a coincidence but currently the two side winless on the bottom of the ladder have coaches that have never played AFL/VFL
and I have had just a brief look and there hasn't been any coach that has won a premiership that has not played the game at the highest level

Sure there has been plenty of coaches that were great players that failed but the stats the other way are far worse


Hardly ever has a coach who has not played at the highest level gone on to have longevity. Might be that little bit less respect for them dishing out orders when they haven't played. Don't know for sure but that must be close to a reason beyond a coincidence. That history was my only reservation when we got Bolton.

Neil Craig did but at the time Adelaide were very SA centric and didn't take to Victorian coaches for a long time.
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