If you haven't coached an AFL team, I don't think you're in a position to tell whether someone who hasn't played AFL can coach AFL players.

#braithylogic

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I was around the Lions a bit earlier this decade, they had a line coach - who was a good friend i grew up playing juniors with. He didn't have AFL experience, he had qld, and NT, made a bunch of rep teams etc and could have made the AFL if not for injury.

but still, the hurdles he faced communicating his message in the AFL environment was an uphill battle. some kids would take it onboard and grow and be better players for it. but the majority didn't. he always identified that when backs were to the wall, him not having that afl experience damaged his credibility within the playing group.

Can you name any non playing afl/ vfl players who have rung up success in coaching AFL?

Can you name a club other than carlton who have tried two non-AFL playing coaches (brittain and bolton)?

I dont subscribe to the notion if you havent played at the top level you cant coach. Its just too dogmatic.

you are talking like all we have to do is see this thing out and success is guaranteed. but it is not. what if bolton isn't the right coach? by how many months or years will that delay us?

the rebuild is essential. no question ... but there's genuine questions as to whether we have the right staff on board to deliver it.

match committee selections
line coaching
game day strategy
development of youth

a reserves strategy which translates into seniors football.


as a club we're in a bit of a crisis. the women poorly underperformed. the reserves are woeful. really hard to watch woeful, and the seniors are on track to be the worst AFL team ever.

if this was year one of the rebuild, I'd not bat an eyelid. if it was year two, i'd start to get that gut feeling that maybe our current staff ins't the right mix. tinkering may be needed.

the fact it's year three and we've actually taken a few steps back from last season, and i'm pretty concerned. I'm concerned there is a detachment between coach and players and the tangible issue that we have a guy who's never played AFL footy steering the ship.

how long do we persist with bolton, when in year three he is yet to tick off a KPI?

some players are stagnating in their development, while others are taking backwards steps. last season we played committed football where we never lay down for no one. when the player's onfield commitment wanes (as ours is) historically speaking, it's an indicator that the coach may have lost the group, or they don't believe in his tactics.


i think there are many people here who conflate the issue of our absolute need to rebuild, with the fact that Bolton must be that guy to rebuild us. i think we have 50% of the forward strategy in place.

the rebuild and injection of draft picks and turning over the deadwood which has anchored the club is 110% the right path we have to take. and not deviate from that path bcos of public or media pressure.

but i don't feel like we have the right coach implementing our rebuild. an unknown quantity of a coach, who's never head coached a seniors AFL team before, and hasn't played a single game of AFL footy, should have our alarm bells ringing.


I'd just hate to see us as a club blindly following this rebuild path and backing the coaching 100% when there are problems within the club and coaching. the noticeable drop off since Neill Craig has left, the fair and just questioning into is Bolton the right coach, and the development of our gun draft picks are three big issues, but there are more.

I kinda disagree with this whole bit that bolton talks about this is Carlton's first proper rebuild. It is not. Why did we tank 3 seasons in a row to get Murhpy, Kruezer and Gibbs? was that not by definition a total rebuild?

I have one question for MLG or Judd or anyone else on our board.

we'd all agree that Kreuzer, Gibbs and Murphy and those high draft picks from that era never lived up to our expectations of them as No1 picks. The never delivered us more than semi final football. which we all quite fairly deem as a failure.

So, what has the club done, and what development strategies has it put into place to ensure this next batch of elite picks do not follow the first? ie failure.

So that's where your idea comes from.

Sample isn't big enough.

I dont subscribe to the notion if you havent played at the top level you cant coach. Its just too dogmatic.

you are talking like all we have to do is see this thing out and success is guaranteed. but it is not.

...

i think there are many people here who conflate the issue of our absolute need to rebuild, with the fact that Bolton must be that guy to rebuild us. i think we have 50% of the forward strategy in place.

...

the rebuild and injection of draft picks and turning over the deadwood which has anchored the club is 110% the right path we have to take. and not deviate from that path bcos of publicy of a coach, who's never head coach

....
I have one question for MLG or Judd or anyone else on our board.

we'd all agree that Kreuzer, Gibbs and Murphy and those high draft picks from that era never lived up to our expectations of them as No1 picks. The never delivered us more than semi final football. which we all quite fairly deem as a failure.

So, what has the club done, and what development strategies has it put into place to ensure this next batch of elite picks do not follow the first? ie failure.

The idea that you have to have played at the top level to be a good coach is stupid. Look at football (soccer) - just in the top 10 of the English Premier League alone you have the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez who were all lower-division nobodies as players. As managers, All four have either won or made the final of the Champions League.

Love the passion Braithy

We all want the same outcome, albeit perhaps via different means.

Not for one minute is the club saying sit tight all will be fine. Do you think anyone of those involved have ever at any stage of their success sat back and blindly said all will be fine? Each of them at every stage of their success assesses and reassesses the path that is being trod.

Not one person in position of authority is conflating need for rebuild with blind faith in any individual, not in Bolton, not in anyone. Ever.

The past development, treatment or recruitment policy is irrelevant.

It is history. It guides but doesn't define your future. Aggregating each of the various failures of the past 16 years is as irrelevant as also aggregating the previous 15 in order to include 2 premierships in the data set.

There have been multiple failings - many as a result of injuries. Our list isn't deep, our talent pool doesn't run deep, when 8 of your top 24 are out injured there is guaranteed to be failings.

Great questions / concerns.

Cheers

OR

it's far from stupid. to get your manager's licence in the world game is a completely different task to AFL ... by the time these managers get to big clubs and win titles and trophies they're already among the best few managers in the world (and the players know this). the world of football management or NFL coaching is an apples & oranges argument.


AFL is so much more small time and insular than football. most of the kids playing have never travelled, never lived, don't have much experience in anything. they have a pack mentality where they follow (often blindly). so you only need a few players not to be onboard with a rookie coach, and things head south pretty quick.

Conversely, I could come up with a raft of ordinary players who became gun coaches, the likes of Tom Hafey, Mick Malthouse, Denis Pagan, Alan Joyce, etc.

If you really investigated, I think you'd find that there's no correlation, just like all the other, more advanced "big time", professional sports have found. In fact, I believe it's your kind of thinking about this that actually KEEPS the AFL small time.

The skill sets of playing and coaching have virtually nothing in common with each other. Similar to acting vs directing, programming vs project management, and research vs academic management. The quicker Australia jumps on board, the quicker we'll grow!

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oh, but i never said anywhere, that gun players become excellent coaches. my whole point was, playing in the AFL gives you credibility and a level of respect from your group that you do not receive if you haven't played an AFL game.

as for coaching. don't confuse any of this with my thinking or what i believe. for the record i don't agree with it ( i find it limited and narrow-minded thinking), i'm just saying it exists. i know it exists, because players and coaches have told me it exists.

what i believe is best for cfc though ...

... it's like the day you walk in as HC of an AFL team without AFL playing experience, it's an immediate handicap with the playing group. imo, we are a team which really don't need further handicaps right now.