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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
cortez wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
If we finish last or 17th, does Bolton remain as coach?
(FWIW I think he should have 2019 to show clear improvement ie 8+ wins)

One would hope so. If we go through another sakcing and the BS that comes with it, we're back we're we started.


Yes, we have to stay the course. Bolton has to stay as coach, unless next year is a complete disaster he's there for 2020 too. The club needs stability.


The Richmond flog did okay.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
Still can't work it out though.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/long-c ... b4d9c6c9ca

If Bolton listens to Mark Maclure then I give it away.

If Bolton wants some outside advice, go talk to Malcolm Blight about confidence and positive play.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21544
Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
[Who is to say that the rebuild is just not another Messiah approach.
Chances are it wont work and we go through years of pain for nothing


I would have thought a total rebuild with youth is the total opposite to a messiah approach. :?
Can anyone explain what Ive missed?
The rebuild is just another goose that is going to lay the golden egg.
We tried Pagan that didn't work
We ran with Ratten and got Judd and didn't work either
Then Malthouse
Now it is the rebuild that will lead to the promise land.

It's just another Messiah complex . Youth will lead us to glory

MLG announced this rebuild at the beginning of Malthouse's last year.
People have conveniently forgotten that the 66 games have come and gone and the club is still heading south

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Embracing youth is a Messiah complex?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: riding shotgun on Agros Karma Train
Wojee wrote:
Embracing youth is a Messiah complex?
Yeah that part made sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10400
Location: Coburg
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
[Who is to say that the rebuild is just not another Messiah approach.
Chances are it wont work and we go through years of pain for nothing


I would have thought a total rebuild with youth is the total opposite to a messiah approach. :?
Can anyone explain what Ive missed?
The rebuild is just another goose that is going to lay the golden egg.
We tried Pagan that didn't work
We ran with Ratten and got Judd and didn't work either
Then Malthouse
Now it is the rebuild that will lead to the promise land.

It's just another Messiah complex . Youth will lead us to glory

MLG announced this rebuild at the beginning of Malthouse's last year.
People have conveniently forgotten that the 66 games have come and gone and the club is still heading south

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


so do nothing...

or do something different...

but
do not do what we are currently doing which is exactly the same as what we have done no matter how different it is?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
Posts: 4919
We could always try the brown paper bags again.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 23921
good for the environment.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
woof wrote:
We could always try the brown paper bags again.


Plenty of AFL endorsed brown paper bags getting around nowadays. Might as well, but first you have to get players to come.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 14730
Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Don't do anything, just complain about what we've done in the past

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Essendon* cheated, simple as that


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:00 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
[Who is to say that the rebuild is just not another Messiah approach.
Chances are it wont work and we go through years of pain for nothing


I would have thought a total rebuild with youth is the total opposite to a messiah approach. :?
Can anyone explain what Ive missed?
The rebuild is just another goose that is going to lay the golden egg.
We tried Pagan that didn't work
We ran with Ratten and got Judd and didn't work either
Then Malthouse
Now it is the rebuild that will lead to the promise land.

It's just another Messiah complex . Youth will lead us to glory

MLG announced this rebuild at the beginning of Malthouse's last year.
People have conveniently forgotten that the 66 games have come and gone and the club is still heading south

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Going into this year is you knew by round 5 we had the players missing that we do, what would you be expecting?

Also your whole post makes no sense. A messiah is based on an individual leading us to glory, what we are trying now isn’t that


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:38 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21544
Location: North of the border
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
[Who is to say that the rebuild is just not another Messiah approach.
Chances are it wont work and we go through years of pain for nothing


I would have thought a total rebuild with youth is the total opposite to a messiah approach. :?
Can anyone explain what Ive missed?
The rebuild is just another goose that is going to lay the golden egg.
We tried Pagan that didn't work
We ran with Ratten and got Judd and didn't work either
Then Malthouse
Now it is the rebuild that will lead to the promise land.

It's just another Messiah complex . Youth will lead us to glory

MLG announced this rebuild at the beginning of Malthouse's last year.
People have conveniently forgotten that the 66 games have come and gone and the club is still heading south

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Going into this year is you knew by round 5 we had the players missing that we do, what would you be expecting?

Also your whole post makes no sense. A messiah is based on an individual leading us to glory, what we are trying now isn’t that
In this case the individual is the rebuild.
For some reason people think that slashing the list and going to the draft is the only solution to the promise land
If this was the case a year or so back we had 4 pick one and 2 pick twos .
We should have been dominating.
Since Pagan came in we have been slashing and burning the list almost every year.
We have been letting experience walk out the door on the premise that they would not lead us to the next premiership.
This club has slashed enough it is time they stop blaming the list and work with that list to get them playing better footy.
4 x No 1 and not one of them has taken the competition by storm. It either says the draft assessment is wrong or the development is wrong
I am convinced it is the latter.
Sydney Hawks and Geelong have so very ordinary players but none of them have 4 number ones like we had.
Going to the draft and topping up on youth will only work if you have the system in place for them to develop further.
Carlton obviously hasn't otherwise this top end would not go backwards once it arrived.
The players need job security and as 42 players will tell you that doesn't happen at Carlton and hasn't since Pagan walked in the door

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:32 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4627
I reckon the bunch there now have job security...we'll see

Go you good things

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 15582
Location: Upper Swan.
bluegirl72 wrote:
good for the environment.
:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:19 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
If we can hold onto Docherty, Williamson, Cripps, Marchbank, SPS, Dow, Curnow and a few others for 3 more years and get some good senior players in through trades, and then do another 44-66 game build we will be fully rebuilt.

Original 66 game rebuild seemed a little optimistic.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14638
Location: Sydney
club29 wrote:
If we can hold onto Docherty, Williamson, Cripps, Marchbank, SPS, Dow, Curnow and a few others for 3 more years and get some good senior players in through trades, and then do another 44-66 game build we will be fully rebuilt.

Original 66 game rebuild seemed a little optimistic.


And then after 3 years plus 66 games, Docherty will be in his 30's and it'll be time to rebuild again. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:28 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
GreatEx wrote:
club29 wrote:
If we can hold onto Docherty, Williamson, Cripps, Marchbank, SPS, Dow, Curnow and a few others for 3 more years and get some good senior players in through trades, and then do another 44-66 game build we will be fully rebuilt.

Original 66 game rebuild seemed a little optimistic.


And then after 3 years plus 66 games, Docherty will be in his 30's and it'll be time to rebuild again. :D[/quotefir

First part yes but not the second.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28227
club29 wrote:
If we can hold onto Docherty, Williamson, Cripps, Marchbank, SPS, Dow, Curnow and a few others for 3 more years and get some good senior players in through trades, and then do another 44-66 game build we will be fully rebuilt.

Original 66 game rebuild seemed a little optimistic.


Weitering not in your grouping there... ?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Sydney Blue wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
[Who is to say that the rebuild is just not another Messiah approach.
Chances are it wont work and we go through years of pain for nothing


I would have thought a total rebuild with youth is the total opposite to a messiah approach. :?
Can anyone explain what Ive missed?
The rebuild is just another goose that is going to lay the golden egg.
We tried Pagan that didn't work
We ran with Ratten and got Judd and didn't work either
Then Malthouse
Now it is the rebuild that will lead to the promise land.

It's just another Messiah complex . Youth will lead us to glory

MLG announced this rebuild at the beginning of Malthouse's last year.
People have conveniently forgotten that the 66 games have come and gone and the club is still heading south

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Going into this year is you knew by round 5 we had the players missing that we do, what would you be expecting?

Also your whole post makes no sense. A messiah is based on an individual leading us to glory, what we are trying now isn’t that
In this case the individual is the rebuild.
For some reason people think that slashing the list and going to the draft is the only solution to the promise land
If this was the case a year or so back we had 4 pick one and 2 pick twos .
We should have been dominating.
Since Pagan came in we have been slashing and burning the list almost every year.
We have been letting experience walk out the door on the premise that they would not lead us to the next premiership.
This club has slashed enough it is time they stop blaming the list and work with that list to get them playing better footy.
4 x No 1 and not one of them has taken the competition by storm. It either says the draft assessment is wrong or the development is wrong
I am convinced it is the latter.
Sydney Hawks and Geelong have so very ordinary players but none of them have 4 number ones like we had.
Going to the draft and topping up on youth will only work if you have the system in place for them to develop further.
Carlton obviously hasn't otherwise this top end would not go backwards once it arrived.
The players need job security and as 42 players will tell you that doesn't happen at Carlton and hasn't since Pagan walked in the door

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


There is some truth to what you are saying no doubt. Between 2008-13 we had a relatively stable list though, when we were happy with our core side. Also that invoices giving job security by giving multiple year contracts to guys who didn’t deserve them (Davies, Bootsma, Warnock, Graham etc)

I agree we have to stop chopping and changing, but the idea this time we would do that after we had got enough young talent in. We are in the process of that now, so stopping now would be another example of a muddled mindset.

Good clubs hold their nerve in situations like this, we have a history of not doing that previously.

I’m not really sure what you are advocating we do now, I think what we will be doing is trying to develop what we have and add more young talent via the draft and trades.

I don’t think we need to deviate from that and offer mullet, kerridge, O’Shea and graham 2-3 year contracts


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