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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Robert Walls
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I just ignore the "trade Plowman" posts.

I think he's a ripper. Not perfect - but bloody good.

Versatile, composed, balanced, good vision, tough as nails and does all the little things or now called "pressure acts" really well.

:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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bondiblue wrote:
steve wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Probably not the best time to post this just after the worst loss for the year but:
Daisy to go even though he has had a reasonable year.
Graham even though he is a soldier. He just can't manage it.


I wouldn't be surprised if they get 1 year deals. If the contract thread is correct, we've got 22 players across the list coming off contract, most of which won't be here in 2 years. Only 10 players are off contract next year and some of those are likely to get deals, so I reckon that we'll get rid of a lot this year and have a few 1 year contracts which will get sorted next year.

Looking at the 22 names, there's 9 in the likely column:
Armfield (confirmed) Senior list uncontracted
Jaksch (No senior games in 2017)Senior list. uncontracted
Gorringe (No senior games in 2017)Senior list. uncontracted
Korchek (No senior games and not close to it according to reports in the Talking Northern thread) ROOKIE LIST
Palmer (hardly played seniors in 2017) Senior List I read somewhere he's contracted in 2018???
Buckley (hardly played seniors in 2017)Senior list uncontracted
Sumner (not being picked at the end of the season, Lamb gone past him)?Senior list uncontracted
White (pushed out of first 22, time probably up)Senior List I read somewhere he's contracted in 2018???
Sheehan (Time to make the call?)ROOKIE LIST

Of the other 13:
Kreuzer, Casboult & Cunningham to be offered new contracts? Kreuzer and Casboult certainties, excluding the possibility that Casboult chases more coin elsewhere. Cunningham a question mark based on not being picked in the last few games when the cupboard was bare.

Of the remaining 10:
Boekhorst & Lamb played late season senior footy, so new contract (even just 1 year). Senior List Uncontracted.

Of the remaining 8:
LeBios, A. Silvagni, Gallucci & Glass McCasker - Not sure what the club would be thinking here, so could lose some from this list (I'm assuming that 1 or 2 might be delisted)

The remaining 4 players are:
Simpson, Rowe, Graham & Thomas. Assuming that 10 or 11 of the above players are delisted, that's probably enough. So these four may just get into the 1 year contract, depth player category. It would also provide the candidates for next year's clean out. Senior List. Uncontracted for 2018

Players out of contract in 2018 are:
J. Silvagni, Murphy, Docherty, Plowman & Wright (best 22, likely to be extended)
Polson, Pickett & Kerr (young players, probable/possible extensions)
Kerridge & Smedts (candidates for not being extended).

So we've got too many players on the list with contract expirations in 2017 that aren't long term list options and less so in 2018. One way of balancing this out will be to have a few 1 year extensions.

Given the lack of depth on our list, I reckon the club will try and be aggressive in turning players over again, somewhere in the 9-12 area. Given that we don't have a 2nd round pick, I'm guessing that we'll be looking to trade aggressively to turn so many players over. So players like Graham and Daisy may be on the cusp, but they might just scrape through. I think it's going to depend on whether we can trade for multiple picks/players cleverly.

Given the numbers, if Graham or Daisy don't make it, it's likely that one of the other names will.


22 players out of contract includes Senior players and Rookie players ??

9-10 players off the list including rookies is realistic.
Rookies vulnerable IMO is Gallucci, Le Bois JGM and Sheehan so 4 for sure. Korcheck is a different category rookie.
I wonder / doubt Sheehan is upgraded as Byrne was last year? Doubt it after dropping his bundle against the Dees. Alex Silvagni should be upgraded IMO.

Do you know for fact Palmer and White are off contract in 2018? I'm not sure. I've read they are contracted. White got 2 years (2017-8) ????
If that's the case, then I see Graham is vulnerable.

Point is we can get rid of a lot to make room to blood 9-10 senior and rookie players. :thumbsup:


22 includes all lists. It is based on the info in the contracts thread, so needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. We aren't de-listing contracted players, so if Palmer got a contract extension as part of the move then he'll be on the list next year.

I guess the main thing looking at the contracted players showed me was that we won't get rid of all of the players being thrown around this year in 1 draft. I think it also shows that we'll be very active in trade period. We'll need to move 9 or 10 off the list and so I think they will try and get some picks somehow.

It als probably means a decent number being delisted in 2018, moving back to a more normal draft position in 2019.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Just because someone mentions a player as a trade option, it doesn't mean they think that player is no good. For the record, I like Plowman as a player - but I would trade him if it unlocked another trade for a quality midfielder. I definitely wouldn't trade him lightly and it doesn't mean I don't rate him.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Robert Walls
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Just because someone mentions a player as a trade option, it doesn't mean they think that player is no good. For the record, I like Plowman as a player - but I would trade him if it unlocked another trade for a quality midfielder. I definitely wouldn't trade him lightly and it doesn't mean I don't rate him.


Yep fair call :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I like that in McKay's injury update video all the other players will be right for the start of pre-season, but Dylan Buckley will be 'back on his feet before you know it'.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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nck wrote:
I like that in McKay's injury update video all the other players will be right for the start of pre-season, but Dylan Buckley will be 'back on his feet before you know it'.

Yep raised my eyebrow too. Haha. Probably reading too much into it but interesting choice of words.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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One Buckley seems Gawn today. Thought it would be two

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Crippa wrote:
nck wrote:
I like that in McKay's injury update video all the other players will be right for the start of pre-season, but Dylan Buckley will be 'back on his feet before you know it'.

Yep raised my eyebrow too. Haha. Probably reading too much into it but interesting choice of words.


Yep noticed that too.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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bondiblue wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
i am not a fan of plowman,for me he is to SLOW,he could be used as a trade / good draft pick,we have other players on the list that could play his role. IMO



Recently I have been surprised to find Mr Plowman has a few supporters who don't rate him.
I accept that. Perception is reality.

He is not slow. He's got enough pace to play against talls and smalls, hence why he does.
He's played on a wing for GWS, even had a taste as a mid.
It is not because he's slow.

What is it about Mr Plowman I'm missing.
I've been curious since The Craniums post.

At the beginning of the season he was touted as The General of the backline.
He was the glue for Rowe, the newcomer Marchbank and Weiters.
He was the bona fide backman.

He is usually in the mix as the 3rd man up in team defence because he reads the play so well.
Many. like me believe Jones missed him on the weekend.

I have a theory that some fans have seen Williamson and they think he's passed Plowman.
That's all good, but Williamson needs to develop a right boot and learn to chase a bit better than he has been.
Williamson can't play against the bigger bodies Plowman does.
I think jamespul65 has an idea there's others who can play his role, but are they better?
Bottom line, Williamson is developing, not developed.

Plowman is new to our club, and has slotted in perfectly with our backline.
He's been targeted and recruited from GWS. He played only 2 years.
He fits the youth profile we want. Why would the club trade him?
No one would take him if he was too slow, and james wants a high draft pick for him. Confused. :?

I'm really curious from others why they feel Plowman is not dependable/ worthy of first 22.
What has he done wrong to feel that way?



It's not that I don't rate him, reckon he's a good honest player. I just think that others may go pat him. He may improve and prove me completely wrong. And if he does, that'll be great. I just think his disposal is average as his decision making. Players make mistakes, as we all do in life, but Lachie just seems to repeatedly make momentum killers. Don't think we de-list as he is always going to be solid. I just think with our wealth of key defenders, if all fit, he is no guarantee to get a gig. He'll always be in the 25. I think if we improve, he's not a walk up start

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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MPH78 wrote:
Crippa wrote:
nck wrote:
I like that in McKay's injury update video all the other players will be right for the start of pre-season, but Dylan Buckley will be 'back on his feet before you know it'.

Yep raised my eyebrow too. Haha. Probably reading too much into it but interesting choice of words.


Yep noticed that too.
Definitely... Didn't look good

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Like to see go,
Buckley, Armfield, White, Palmer, Gorringe, JGM, Gallucci, KJ and Korcheck.
Could be another 4 or 5..


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
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Tom Browne on Talking Footy saying that Thomas will be offered a one year deal when he has his exit interview tomorrow.
He also said that Gibbs had his interview yesterday and did not ask to be traded.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Just because someone mentions a player as a trade option, it doesn't mean they think that player is no good. For the record, I like Plowman as a player - but I would trade him if it unlocked another trade for a quality midfielder. I definitely wouldn't trade him lightly and it doesn't mean I don't rate him.

But it does mean you think he is surplus to our needs.

From where I am sitting a pick number 4 with great work ethic, good skills and is reliable is not surplus to our needs...indeed he is integral to our set up.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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muzza wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Just because someone mentions a player as a trade option, it doesn't mean they think that player is no good. For the record, I like Plowman as a player - but I would trade him if it unlocked another trade for a quality midfielder. I definitely wouldn't trade him lightly and it doesn't mean I don't rate him.

But it does mean you think he is surplus to our needs.


No it doesn't. It means I think if there is a club willing to pay us a fair price while a player has currency, and the deal will improve our list, we should do it.

I don't see him going anywhere, by the way.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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The_Cranium wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
i am not a fan of plowman,for me he is to SLOW,he could be used as a trade / good draft pick,we have other players on the list that could play his role. IMO



Recently I have been surprised to find Mr Plowman has a few supporters who don't rate him.
I accept that. Perception is reality.

He is not slow. He's got enough pace to play against talls and smalls, hence why he does.
He's played on a wing for GWS, even had a taste as a mid.
It is not because he's slow.

What is it about Mr Plowman I'm missing.
I've been curious since The Craniums post.

At the beginning of the season he was touted as The General of the backline.
He was the glue for Rowe, the newcomer Marchbank and Weiters.
He was the bona fide backman.

He is usually in the mix as the 3rd man up in team defence because he reads the play so well.
Many. like me believe Jones missed him on the weekend.

I have a theory that some fans have seen Williamson and they think he's passed Plowman.
That's all good, but Williamson needs to develop a right boot and learn to chase a bit better than he has been.
Williamson can't play against the bigger bodies Plowman does.
I think jamespul65 has an idea there's others who can play his role, but are they better?
Bottom line, Williamson is developing, not developed.

Plowman is new to our club, and has slotted in perfectly with our backline.
He's been targeted and recruited from GWS. He played only 2 years.
He fits the youth profile we want. Why would the club trade him?
No one would take him if he was too slow, and james wants a high draft pick for him. Confused. :?

I'm really curious from others why they feel Plowman is not dependable/ worthy of first 22.
What has he done wrong to feel that way?



It's not that I don't rate him, reckon he's a good honest player. I just think that others may go pat him....

NTTAWWT

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:09 am 
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Harry Vallence
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kezza wrote:
Tom Browne on Talking Footy saying that Thomas will be offered a one year deal when he has his exit interview tomorrow.
He also said that Gibbs had his interview yesterday and did not ask to be traded.


He's not going to request a trade while Adelaide are still in the finals!!

In saying that I have no idea if he wants to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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i follow the nfl and with there systems of drafting /recruiting, they would use a player like PLOWMAN to get picks or trade to get what is required for the club to make the team better. Lp his 22yrs ,190 odd cm.2 3 yrs experience, maybe a club might bite. I know people like plowman my friends included but i have seen times in games where he doesnt cut it , so if we trade if now we might get value / or he stays and becomes a good player either way we all WIN.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:20 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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jamespul65 wrote:
i follow the nfl and with there systems of drafting /recruiting, they would use a player like PLOWMAN to get picks or trade to get what is required for the club to make the team better. Lp his 22yrs ,190 odd cm.2 3 yrs experience, maybe a club might bite. I know people like plowman my friends included but i have seen times in games where he doesnt cut it , so if we trade if now we might get value / or he stays and becomes a good player either way we all WIN.


I've seen 22 players who don't cut it at times play for Carlton, including Cripps.

What they the other 99% of time is AFL standard.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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jamespul65 wrote:
i follow the nfl and with there systems of drafting /recruiting, they would use a player like PLOWMAN to get picks or trade to get what is required for the club to make the team better. Lp his 22yrs ,190 odd cm.2 3 yrs experience, maybe a club might bite. I know people like plowman my friends included but i have seen times in games where he doesnt cut it , so if we trade if now we might get value / or he stays and becomes a good player either way we all WIN.

You've been watching Moneyball.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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A couple for the FWIW file.
From BF, Vafa06 says that Gibbs is happy and will not be leaving. ericpascoe says that Sumner likely to be delisted and rookied if he comes back in good shape. Also saying that KJ and Palmer will be gone by the end of the week. Palmer contracted for 2018 but will be paid out.


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