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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:48 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
DocSherrin III wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
please explain to me why footscary have Darymple and Jason MacCartney?
what role does Darymple perform which is separate from Jason MacCartney?


http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/team/ ... -personnel


Thanks Doc
I knew the difference
Just wanted to test whether posters here that are trying to play the man not the issue
Footscray have a better football department than us imo
Director of football is interesting....equivalent to our brilliant adrian gleeson..

Ben graham even more interesting
Nfl experience would be second to none
But don't worry folks...jennie pratt thinks that we should be recruiting more star players


Last edited by Mosquito Fleet on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:49 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25092
Location: Bondi Beach
scottopee wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
When talls Rowe Casboult White become depth players we should have a pretty good spine.
IF we can get Marchbank Stewart and Corr on board whilst McKay develops then our spine is set.
Gives us Weitering and Marchbank as swingmen, as well as increasing our pace and mobility from talls.

When midfield-forwards Thomas Sumner Lamb become depth players we should have a good forwardline.
IF we can get Pickett Hrovat Hoskin-Elliot/Ellis-Yeolman and add a 2016 first round mid whilst Curnow and Silvagni develop around them our forwardline improves as does our midfield depth.

IF pick 5 helps us get the above mentioned and we can receive a pick 14-16 for the 5, I think we have expedited our rebuild, and are on par with the depth of all the teams outside the 8.

From there we can add class from the 2017 and 2018 drafts along with a FA star in the mould of a Fyfe.

We could be ready to fire for finals from 2018 onwards.

A great trading period in the next fortnight can set us up quicker than some think.

The Dogs have shown how quickly things can turn around.
We weren't too far off the pace in about five games, some of them top teams.
We do need an elite outside mid with run. We have Gibbs who is elite but not quick. The Dogs won the prelim AND the GF on the back of Johannisen (sp) run and carry late in the games.


The dogs drafted themselves to success picked the players they wanted not take heap of other teams cast offs hoping some become stars.


I see what you're saying but the Doggies didn't have the opportunities the GWS present, but when they did, they took Boyd. Gordon knew Boyd was gettable before Griffen left.

I agree with the need for outside speed ie JJ Norm Smith. Incredibly Doggies got him on the rookie list in 2010. Picken was recruited in 2008 as a rookie.

We tried to build a list around Juddy and the No 1 drafts...and still had holes everywhere let alone a lack of depth with our KP's.

Doggies have 4 x FS. They have been very lucky with their 3rd rounders and rookies. We can too if that's the way to go. A lot of luck required looking for 2 in the bush.

We lack a spine. We have aging and sub par KPs Rowe, Casboult, White, Kreuzer with back ups in Jones, Gorringe and Jaksch. We need to replace all of them. There's a lot of them.

Talls are hard to get. How long do you think it would take to replace/ upgrade on those 8 mentioned from the draft, along with midfielders.

There's an opportunity for SOS to take advantage of the plethora of talls the GWS can't keep, and perhaps a super zippy Pickett packaged with them.

I believe Cuningham, Murphy, Docherty and Boekhurst provide outside speed and Byrne will add to them when he's fit. All are babies except for Murphy, but he will be like a new recruit next year.

We can load up and go focus on mids over the 2017 and 2018 drafts. I'd like to see the spine sorted and build from there. That's just me..only if they are bonafide KPs.

Marchbank and Corr for example are mobile KPs. I don't think we need gorillas with team defense working.
Stewart is a KP who can kick. There's nothing wrong with these talls if they are bonafide guns. I'll leave that to SOS.

There's no guarantees we can get the talls we want in any future draft unless we take them earlier than they are valued. I can see us having to trade for talls anyway and that will cost us more than the current unique GWS situation presents.

There no right or wrong. None of us are Nostradamus. Just different angles for success. We lack depth.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:53 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
Bondi

We lack everything.

On and off the field


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:08 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
And who said Dalrymple didn't report to McCartney?

And even if he didn't, that's a matter for the Doggies. As List Manager, McCartney would have to liaise with the recruiting manager, that's just obvious.

Without knowing details, I'd suspect Dalrymple looks at u18 and u16 draft prospects almost exclusively.

If SOS thinks he can make the calls himself, no real issue there.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:26 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
CarltonClem wrote:
And who said Dalrymple didn't report to McCartney?

And even if he didn't, that's a matter for the Doggies. As List Manager, McCartney would have to liaise with the recruiting manager, that's just obvious.

Without knowing details, I'd suspect Dalrymple looks at u18 and u16 draft prospects almost exclusively.

If SOS thinks he can make the calls himself, no real issue there.


oh yes there is a real issue mate

talent identification and recruiting is a full time job

you visit the kids family
yoiu visit the kids school
you visit the kids old footy club
you follow up on the kids character references
you speak to any doctor
you go interstate and watch the kids play - back of beyond
all the above is just for one player
you don't just solely rely upon the gws list
you don't look at standard afl videos as our past recruiters have alleged to have done
its a full time job that sos cannot do - he is the list manager

don't worry, the board have made the decision that we don't need a recruiter


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:58 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 1030
trublu wrote:
Have also heard that some at the club are bothered by SOS not valuing picks outside 40 so much so they are questioning the ability to spot talent late in the draft. At a board meeting late last year, where he was asked to attend and fronted the board to discuss his strategy and process he was questioned why he does not rate or look for picks between 30+ and a board member suggested the club should look at finding a talented person to become head recruiter to which SOS disagreed


So why do we currently have 2 3rd round picks this year if SOS doesn't rate them?

And is anyone seriously unhappy with Jack at 53 or whatever it was last year?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
And who said Dalrymple didn't report to McCartney?

And even if he didn't, that's a matter for the Doggies. As List Manager, McCartney would have to liaise with the recruiting manager, that's just obvious.

Without knowing details, I'd suspect Dalrymple looks at u18 and u16 draft prospects almost exclusively.

If SOS thinks he can make the calls himself, no real issue there.


oh yes there is a real issue mate

talent identification and recruiting is a full time job

you visit the kids family
yoiu visit the kids school
you visit the kids old footy club
you follow up on the kids character references
you speak to any doctor
you go interstate and watch the kids play - back of beyond
all the above is just for one player
you don't just solely rely upon the gws list
you don't look at standard afl videos as our past recruiters have alleged to have done
its a full time job that sos cannot do - he is the list manager

don't worry, the board have made the decision that we don't need a recruiter


All that is predicated on there being 1 recruiter per club. I think you'll find there are a team of recruiters that do all that... The list manager manages and makes the final call.

Efficient delegation is what it is...

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 2477
CarltonClem wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
And who said Dalrymple didn't report to McCartney?

And even if he didn't, that's a matter for the Doggies. As List Manager, McCartney would have to liaise with the recruiting manager, that's just obvious.

Without knowing details, I'd suspect Dalrymple looks at u18 and u16 draft prospects almost exclusively.

If SOS thinks he can make the calls himself, no real issue there.


oh yes there is a real issue mate

talent identification and recruiting is a full time job

you visit the kids family
yoiu visit the kids school
you visit the kids old footy club
you follow up on the kids character references
you speak to any doctor
you go interstate and watch the kids play - back of beyond
all the above is just for one player
you don't just solely rely upon the gws list
you don't look at standard afl videos as our past recruiters have alleged to have done
its a full time job that sos cannot do - he is the list manager

don't worry, the board have made the decision that we don't need a recruiter


All that is predicated on there being 1 recruiter per club. I think you'll find there are a team of recruiters that do all that... The list manager manages and makes the final call.

Efficient delegation is what it is...


Incorrect


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
trublu wrote:
Have also heard that some at the club are bothered by SOS not valuing picks outside 40 so much so they are questioning the ability to spot talent late in the draft. At a board meeting late last year, where he was asked to attend and fronted the board to discuss his strategy and process he was questioned why he does not rate or look for picks between 30+ and a board member suggested the club should look at finding a talented person to become head recruiter to which SOS disagreed



If we assume the above is all true:


Mistake No.1

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:13 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 1030
Blue Vain wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
trublu wrote:
Have also heard that some at the club are bothered by SOS not valuing picks outside 40 so much so they are questioning the ability to spot talent late in the draft. At a board meeting late last year, where he was asked to attend and fronted the board to discuss his strategy and process he was questioned why he does not rate or look for picks between 30+ and a board member suggested the club should look at finding a talented person to become head recruiter to which SOS disagreed



If we assume the above is all true:


Mistake No.1


Exactly. Probably safer to assume the opposite is true. And funny how the board is ok to conduct this supposed interrogation but are useless at everything else.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:21 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Trublu when is Marchbank rejecting us and picking stk?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24634
Location: Kaloyasena
Blue Vain wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
trublu wrote:
Have also heard that some at the club are bothered by SOS not valuing picks outside 40 so much so they are questioning the ability to spot talent late in the draft. At a board meeting late last year, where he was asked to attend and fronted the board to discuss his strategy and process he was questioned why he does not rate or look for picks between 30+ and a board member suggested the club should look at finding a talented person to become head recruiter to which SOS disagreed



If we assume the above is all true:


Mistake No.1



I understood that SOS was going to have his mate Paul Brodie appointed as Head Recruiter as soon as his suspension (for illegal AFL betting) was completed, which was immediately after this years draft.

Although I stand to be corrected.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18022
Yes, I believe that was the plan.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:08 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
trublu wrote:
Have also heard that some at the club are bothered by SOS not valuing picks outside 40 so much so they are questioning the ability to spot talent late in the draft. At a board meeting late last year, where he was asked to attend and fronted the board to discuss his strategy and process he was questioned why he does not rate or look for picks between 30+ and a board member suggested the club should look at finding a talented person to become head recruiter to which SOS disagreed



If we assume the above is all true:


Mistake No.1



I understood that SOS was going to have his mate Paul Brodie appointed as Head Recruiter as soon as his suspension (for illegal AFL betting) was completed, which was immediately after this years draft.

Although I stand to be corrected.


We did not participate in the draft last year after pick 23 (I'm not including Jack)... I think every other club except Adelaide did, with almost every club also debuting a draftee after we pulled up stumps.

Either SOS decided there wasn't any talent worth selecting or wasn't able to identify the talent and decided not to try...

I could be wrong, but there might have been only player drafted in the 20s by GWS that played in their Preliminary final side... and Brodie was around then.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 1030
Quote:

We did not participate in the draft last year after pick 23 (I'm not including Jack)... I think every other club except Adelaide did, with almost every club also debuting a draftee after we pulled up stumps.

Either SOS decided there wasn't any talent worth selecting or wasn't able to identify the talent and decided not to try...

I could be wrong, but there might have been only player drafted in the 20s by GWS that played in their Preliminary final side... and Brodie was around then.


That's true but 23 was our 4th pick, most clubs would have had either one or no picks by then so they had to pick at least twice more. And why do you not count Jack? Run that draft again and a bid would come a lot earlier. We still turned over 16 players from memory, in a rebuild that can't be judged for at least another couple of years.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
AK43 wrote:
Quote:

We did not participate in the draft last year after pick 23 (I'm not including Jack)... I think every other club except Adelaide did, with almost every club also debuting a draftee after we pulled up stumps.

Either SOS decided there wasn't any talent worth selecting or wasn't able to identify the talent and decided not to try...

I could be wrong, but there might have been only player drafted in the 20s by GWS that played in their Preliminary final side... and Brodie was around then.


That's true but 23 was our 4th pick, most clubs would have had either one or no picks by then so they had to pick at least twice more. And why do you not count Jack? Run that draft again and a bid would come a lot earlier. We still turned over 16 players from memory, in a rebuild that can't be judged for at least another couple of years.


All you did was support my argument because you totally missed the point.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:09 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 21075
Location: Missing Kouta
ColourMan wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Mosquito Fleet wrote:
trublu wrote:
Have also heard that some at the club are bothered by SOS not valuing picks outside 40 so much so they are questioning the ability to spot talent late in the draft. At a board meeting late last year, where he was asked to attend and fronted the board to discuss his strategy and process he was questioned why he does not rate or look for picks between 30+ and a board member suggested the club should look at finding a talented person to become head recruiter to which SOS disagreed



If we assume the above is all true:


Mistake No.1



I understood that SOS was going to have his mate Paul Brodie appointed as Head Recruiter as soon as his suspension (for illegal AFL betting) was completed, which was immediately after this years draft.

Although I stand to be corrected.


We did not participate in the draft last year after pick 23 (I'm not including Jack)... I think every other club except Adelaide did, with almost every club also debuting a draftee after we pulled up stumps.

Either SOS decided there wasn't any talent worth selecting or wasn't able to identify the talent and decided not to try...

I could be wrong, but there might have been only player drafted in the 20s by GWS that played in their Preliminary final side... and Brodie was around then.

No logic in your views on SOS taking four picks before the second round. A lot of the "GWS four" were worth second round picks or later.

Not too mention a talent laden GWS squad who have to reduce their cap and list. They can write their own ticket with the academy and trading.

Derp.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
So the free trade period has started.
Vickery to Hawks touted.
The silence from the club has been complete for a couple of weeks. Apart from the season reports on all players and one or two puff pieces about families and women players, there has been nothing.
I wouldn't have expected any comment regarding trades but I am hoping that there will be goods news happening there sooner rather than later.

The talk of us trading the #5 for Marchbank is all over the place. i am not sure I would be happy with that. Yeah, we need talls but we need mids as well. There seem to be a plethora of great mids inside the top ten by all reports so we should grab one while we have the chance.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:45 pm 
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John James

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:14 pm
Posts: 630
Location: Caroline Springs
FWIW, Poster on CSC just saw Bolton and Mckay at Docklands meeting with jay Shultz. Came with photo for evidence.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 14615
Location: Sydney
Never seen Marchbank play, but if a player can be taken at #6, play 7 games in 2 years and suffer 2 serious injuries including a shoulder recon, and then be worth a #5 pick, then those must have been 7 bloody brilliant games. Surely any deal that involves giving up the #5 would not be a straight swap, but involve some improvement to our later picks?

Jay Schulz would be a free agent signing, right? If he can get back to last year's form or earlier, then not a bad guy to have around for a couple of years while our young forwards develop.


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