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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:04 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Ive been looking forward to the draft period since August!

Bring it on


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:05 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Talrahir wrote:
club29 wrote:
Im pretty happy with the year. The new crew of players are at the club. Need to keep phasing out the old and the hopeless.

I am a little worried about how easily our gameplan got picked apart by teams that showed a bit of dash. Turning our inside 50's into their goals.
Hopefully Bolton is on to it and knows exactly what is required to keep our score against down.

Next year can easily produce a lot less wins than this year. After that we should start to see improvement with results.


I think a massive contributor to this was the lack of marking targets in the forward line, and small pressure forwards swarming on the loose ball. It would too often be bombed in long (in hope). Marked by an opposition defender (usually an extra defender playing deep) who then rebounds out of the defensive 50 to running players who catch our zone out of formation. They get out the back and score easily. Just guessing of course. I'm not a footy coach or anything like that.

Perhaps, with a hungry C.Curnow up and going, big Harry McKay, SoJ after another pre-season....and then throw in Levi who no longer has 3 defenders hanging off him... If I was ultimately optimistic, I'd also get excited by Sumner with a pre-season under his belt, dashing at the foot of the packs if the ball isn't marked. Having those extra 2 marking targets is going to stretch the opposition defenders, making it easier all round. Even someone like Wright will end up with more output... I'm sure we'll bring in a someone new this draft as well. At the moment, we're a one trick pony in the forward line. Bomb it long to Casboult in the square, or, in congestion, handball it out to someone free on the 50 arc who takes a long shot under pressure. Both low percentage plays with this years available players.

Ok, after reading what I just wrote, and reflecting on your comments, I guess I'm trying to say that I think the cattle we have available next year will make the forward line more effective, preventing the quick rebound out, like we saw this year. That being said, the long bomb into the forward line (every single time) is a predictable gameplan, and needs to be changed, as you said! as I'm sure it will be.

I'm definately optimistic about seeing more improvement again next year.


I think you're right on both fronts forward marking targets and swarming small forwards ala 3 Amigos

Our inside 50's were generally good.
Our conversion was generally bad.
Our marking forwards..well there was only 1 and he isn't a reliable kick.
Small forwards are Wright, Lamb and Sumner and they lack the pace and elusiveness Betts Garlett and Yarran had.
The reality is we need express speed to bring pressure and none of our current 3 have that speed...IMO
I know Sumner didn't have a full preseason so I'm hoping he has more pace than what he's shown thus far at Carlton

I don't think McKay will feature much next year. Too young, too skinny and will need more muscle and stamina.
McKay didn't get much of a chance to develop in 2016. Needs to develop. Unproven
IMO SOj and CC proved they can mix it with the big boys.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:09 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Backing up my thoughts on BB above for a team that was said pre-season to have the worst list of any we did okay if you look at things without emotion didn't we.


Murphy and Byrne will be like new recruits. Runners x 2


McKay and JGM will have had the benefits of a year of AFL development. Talls x 2


Plus draft and trading.


Look for improvement in 2017 if Simmo can hold his form. He is the only older player where age is a worry at this time.


The players on the sidelines have potential. Murhy is a proven performer and we missed his pace and line breaking badly.
You'd think Byrne will miss most of 2016 given an ACL is a 12 month injury

My hopes are with Glass and McKay, but neither showed they can dominate VFL this year, so I'm expecting 2017 to continue their development in the VFL
If they do improve over summer.....watch out!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:17 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
bluedog wrote:
May have been a 'reset' year (will have that confirmed in 3, 4, 5, 6 years...) but on its own, was quite a failure.

Wins against Brisbane, Essendon***, Melbourne, Port, Geelong, Collingwood and Freo.


I predicted before the season started, based on the list, the new coach's statements and the overall feeling around the joint that with a good run on the injury front, we could finish as high as 10th.

Had we won the two games against 17th and 18th as we should have, we might have finished 12th, depending on percentage. I would have taken that seeing as we went without Murphy for half the season, Curnow, who looked promising and McKay for the year.

In the first half of the year we beat Essendon** and Brisbane. In the last three weeks they beat us easily. In other words, either we went downhill against them as yardsticks or they improved more than we did over the course of the year.

The season to me was a season in two halves. In the first half we played with verve, derring-do and ran the football until it all clicked and we won those games we won with run and carry and pressure on the ball and the man. I think that surprised everybody, perhaps including the match committee because for some reason, unexplained by all and a mystery, therefore to most, we changed our way of playing to the old style of chippy chippy turnover and maintained it for the rest of the season with just one notable exception, against a team we had beaten during the year. So for me the first half of the season was a step forward and the second part a step backwards.
I have been critical of Bolton's game plan in the second half to the point where people have told me they are sick of reading about it so I won't go on about it here BUT.....

There have been some really good outcomes for the year, notwithstanding the poor win/loss ration of the second half of the season. 1-11 is not good. Had we started 1-10 and then finished 6-11 people would have been screaming for someone's head in June and calling for a canonization in September, I suppose.

The emergence of Weitering, Docherty, Byrne, Silvagni and cameos by Curnow and Cunningham is what we were all looking for. Whilst I think it is too early to be hailing McKay as the future savior of the forward line, he may turn out OK.

Elite players we have but few. Cripps may well turn out to be the best player ever to play for Carlton.
Gibbs had a good year but I wish he would vomit after every game.
Murphy had a horror year but will be like a new recruit next year.


The second tier players were generally more consistent. Simpson elevated himself to perhaps the best player in the team after Cripps and Docherty. He will be almost impossible to replace, not just for his stats but the way he gets them.
Touhy had a good year.
Armfield is a burst player and played like one. Great soldier but his time is coming.
Ed Curnow may be the most underrated player on the list. He does a great job week after week shutting down the opposition's best midfielder.
The recruits from GWS had a mixed bag but Plowman and Phillips are probably the best of them.
Buckley finished off well and if he takes that form into the preseason and beyond he will be a good player but he has to back himself and the coach has to release him.
Boekhurst is an enigma. He can play, is quick and a great user of the ball but he can't get hold of it! I think he is on thin ice.
Wright was a good pick up. Sumner will make it but he needs to take a hit when his turn comes. I think Kerridge was a good get as well, despite his sometime wayward kicking.
Kreuzer was Kreuzer. You get what you get. He is not the answer in the ruck, though. Tall midfielder maybe.

The rest you can throw a blanket over in terms of whether they stay or go.

The season as a whole was an advance on last year and that is what we are looking for. It's up to SOS now to play the hand he has as best as he can.

I am an advocate for trading Gibbs. I know I am in the minority but if we want to trade into the first round we have to provide something worth a first round pick and Gibbs is about it. Maybe Touhy but I think Touhy will stay. And Gibbs for that matter.

I may have come across as very negative over the past month or so since I got back from Australia. I was hit for six by the crap performance I saw against Collingwood and the crap way they were playing since then. I have been watching footy now for 55 years, since I was ten years old. I played for twenty years and I have coached a bit. Not footy but other sport at high level and I think I am a hard marker. You have to put up with that mindset if you read my posts. Also you young whippersnappers might have ten years to wait for the next coming but not all of us are as young. The advantage of old age, though is that I have seen the shit days before 1968 and I have seen the glory days and now the shit again. It irritates me to see a club like Hawthorn usurp our mantle when they were a rabble fifteen years ago.

Next year we have to jump again. We will have four new recruits in Murphy, Curnow, Cunningham and McKay. We will get pick 5 whom I hope is a super quick, tall, outside midfielder who kicks goals. I would also like to see us pick up a gun forward. Someone like Patton or Lynch, Moore or Daniher who can grab a game by the throat and turn it. There must be one out there. Maybe it's McKay but his NB form doesn't suggest it, even on the back of a year off with injury. Not Vickery. Reiwoldt I could cope with but.

We simply can NOT allow Brisbane, Essendon** and Freo to overtake us or we will end up 15-18 again.

Thanks to everybody on TC for making the distance between Mexico and Carlton seem so much less than it is. I have enjoyed reading your stuff, I have enjoyed sparring with some of you and I don't mean anything personally, nor do I take it personally. At the end of the day we all see the club through different eyes but we all love the club and we all want success.

Here's to a great off season and improvement in 2017.


Agree with every point you make.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:35 am 
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John Nicholls
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
bluedog wrote:
May have been a 'reset' year (will have that confirmed in 3, 4, 5, 6 years...) but on its own, was quite a failure.

Wins against Brisbane, Essendon****, Melbourne, Port, Geelong, Collingwood and Freo.


I predicted before the season started, based on the list, the new coach's statements and the overall feeling around the joint that with a good run on the injury front, we could finish as high as 10th.

Had we won the two games against 17th and 18th as we should have, we might have finished 12th, depending on percentage. I would have taken that seeing as we went without Murphy for half the season, Curnow, who looked promising and McKay for the year.

In the first half of the year we beat Essendon*** and Brisbane. In the last three weeks they beat us easily. In other words, either we went downhill against them as yardsticks or they improved more than we did over the course of the year.

The season to me was a season in two halves. In the first half we played with verve, derring-do and ran the football until it all clicked and we won those games we won with run and carry and pressure on the ball and the man. I think that surprised everybody, perhaps including the match committee because for some reason, unexplained by all and a mystery, therefore to most, we changed our way of playing to the old style of chippy chippy turnover and maintained it for the rest of the season with just one notable exception, against a team we had beaten during the year. So for me the first half of the season was a step forward and the second part a step backwards.
I have been critical of Bolton's game plan in the second half to the point where people have told me they are sick of reading about it so I won't go on about it here BUT.....

There have been some really good outcomes for the year, notwithstanding the poor win/loss ration of the second half of the season. 1-11 is not good. Had we started 1-10 and then finished 6-11 people would have been screaming for someone's head in June and calling for a canonization in September, I suppose.

The emergence of Weitering, Docherty, Byrne, Silvagni and cameos by Curnow and Cunningham is what we were all looking for. Whilst I think it is too early to be hailing McKay as the future savior of the forward line, he may turn out OK.

Elite players we have but few. Cripps may well turn out to be the best player ever to play for Carlton.
Gibbs had a good year but I wish he would vomit after every game.
Murphy had a horror year but will be like a new recruit next year.


The second tier players were generally more consistent. Simpson elevated himself to perhaps the best player in the team after Cripps and Docherty. He will be almost impossible to replace, not just for his stats but the way he gets them.
Touhy had a good year.
Armfield is a burst player and played like one. Great soldier but his time is coming.
Ed Curnow may be the most underrated player on the list. He does a great job week after week shutting down the opposition's best midfielder.
The recruits from GWS had a mixed bag but Plowman and Phillips are probably the best of them.
Buckley finished off well and if he takes that form into the preseason and beyond he will be a good player but he has to back himself and the coach has to release him.
Boekhurst is an enigma. He can play, is quick and a great user of the ball but he can't get hold of it! I think he is on thin ice.
Wright was a good pick up. Sumner will make it but he needs to take a hit when his turn comes. I think Kerridge was a good get as well, despite his sometime wayward kicking.
Kreuzer was Kreuzer. You get what you get. He is not the answer in the ruck, though. Tall midfielder maybe.

The rest you can throw a blanket over in terms of whether they stay or go.

The season as a whole was an advance on last year and that is what we are looking for. It's up to SOS now to play the hand he has as best as he can.

I am an advocate for trading Gibbs. I know I am in the minority but if we want to trade into the first round we have to provide something worth a first round pick and Gibbs is about it. Maybe Touhy but I think Touhy will stay. And Gibbs for that matter.

I may have come across as very negative over the past month or so since I got back from Australia. I was hit for six by the crap performance I saw against Collingwood and the crap way they were playing since then. I have been watching footy now for 55 years, since I was ten years old. I played for twenty years and I have coached a bit. Not footy but other sport at high level and I think I am a hard marker. You have to put up with that mindset if you read my posts. Also you young whippersnappers might have ten years to wait for the next coming but not all of us are as young. The advantage of old age, though is that I have seen the shit days before 1968 and I have seen the glory days and now the shit again. It irritates me to see a club like Hawthorn usurp our mantle when they were a rabble fifteen years ago.

Next year we have to jump again. We will have four new recruits in Murphy, Curnow, Cunningham and McKay. We will get pick 5 whom I hope is a super quick, tall, outside midfielder who kicks goals. I would also like to see us pick up a gun forward. Someone like Patton or Lynch, Moore or Daniher who can grab a game by the throat and turn it. There must be one out there. Maybe it's McKay but his NB form doesn't suggest it, even on the back of a year off with injury. Not Vickery. Reiwoldt I could cope with but.

We simply can NOT allow Brisbane, Essendon*** and Freo to overtake us or we will end up 15-18 again.

Thanks to everybody on TC for making the distance between Mexico and Carlton seem so much less than it is. I have enjoyed reading your stuff, I have enjoyed sparring with some of you and I don't mean anything personally, nor do I take it personally. At the end of the day we all see the club through different eyes but we all love the club and we all want success.

Here's to a great off season and improvement in 2017.


Agree with every point you make.


Enjoy reading all your work BS. Like you I left dismayed watching the Collingwood game live and the disappointing end to the season. I have been spoiled by the heady time post 1968 till 2000 and will continue to follow and support our iconic club. We all call it as we see it. Enjoy that Mexican sunshine.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:50 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Not that it matters much, but we won quite a few more games than most on here thought we would.

I thought the defence was pretty good this year. Even in games like the loss to North, you could see they were doing things right, but were overwhelmed by the midfield & forward line getting beaten.

We looked good in that run of wins when we were kicking short into 50, but then seemed to revert to type as the year went on & bombed it long...well that's just my simplistic view. Where's jimmae to out stat me

Unlike the top squads we are still very fragile when we lose players to injury, & have been for years. Just got to keep cleaning out...

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:34 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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moshe25 wrote:
cimm1979 wrote:
Rexy wrote:
There's been numerous signs from Bolton this year that he's the real deal re ridding the list of poor attitudes.

That's the positive for me.


Contrast that to Damien Hardwicks year and even yesterday .

He's made excuses for his team, laughed and joked about the season and goes on to say how good the list is and virtually guaranteed playing finals next year.

His team were humiliated yesterday and he turns up at the presser like he's high!

The Tiger fans are pulling their hair out.

:thumbsup:


I wonder how their fans feel when they check out the AFL website and see the Richmond players out there before everyone else in their mad monday outfits, lining up at the pub....

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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AFLCA Votes

P Cripps 60
Gibbs 54
K Simpson 31
Docherty 27
E Curnow 15
M Murphy 13
D Thomas 9
Tuohy 9
Kreuzer 9
Casboult 8
Weitering 6
Everitt 4
Kerridge 4
Armfield 2
Buckley 1

Cripps total puts him 23rd in the league.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:41 pm 
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John Nicholls

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We only lost to the Hawks by 19pts and had to play them on their home ground where they never lose. Not sure the Coll v Hawks game yesterday should play on anybodies emotions.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:14 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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club29 wrote:
We only lost to the Hawks by 19pts and had to play them on their home ground where they never lose. Not sure the Coll v Hawks game yesterday should play on anybodies emotions.


Don't forget the Sydney game but then again what about the Essendon* or StKilda or Brisbane games......


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:47 am 
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Ken Hunter
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-31/season-review-carlton

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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what concerns me about 2016 is the manor in which we lost our games they where all similar the opposition run and spread from our foward line and we are left to look like witched hats,Secondly we didnt introduce enough kids or try players in different position always the same merry go round . Hawks and syd played 7 new players this year.Anyway pick 5 .


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Highlight of every year since 2000

GMCbris wrote:
Ive been looking forward to the draft period since August!

Bring it on


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:01 am 
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Bruce Doull
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jamespul65 wrote:
what concerns me about 2016 is the manor in which we lost our games



We were in a pretty good place at the time

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:51 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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CK95 wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
what concerns me about 2016 is the manor in which we lost our games



We were in a pretty good place at the time

Appropriate, since our stocks are quite baron.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:31 am 
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Ken Hunter
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moshe25 wrote:
CK95 wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
what concerns me about 2016 is the manor in which we lost our games



We were in a pretty good place at the time

Appropriate, since our stocks are quite baron.


Earl-y days yet in the rebuild, have heart.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:41 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Interested in The Duke's thoughts...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Unlikely until to-Knight when back online


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Look it is pretty simple.

We have our defensive structures right and when our squad, with very limited ability, plays to their potential, we are competitive.

We lack pace and anyone with quality kicking skills in the midfield, meaning that our very poor forward line has little chance to convert. Our forwards need the ball delivered perfectly as there is very little creativity in there.

Going forward, we need to look at high quality, pacey midfielders that can deliver the ball with accuracy and penetration into the forward line. That would solve many of our woes. I have faith Silvagni and Curnow will provide creativity going forward- making 30/70 situations into 50/50 situations etc, but they need some time. McKay will also be a go to forward, but again he needs time. Deliver the ball well to those boys and they will progress very quickly. Ben Silvagni will be at the club in 2018, so between the two Silvagni boys, McKay and Curnow, there will be more than enough talent in 2019 etc.

We go tot he draft looking for quality mids.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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6.08/10 for me....!


kindest regards tommi

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