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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:46 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Blue Vain wrote:
It was interesting watching the players and coaches respond today to what was happening on the field.
St Kilda played a 5 man forward line in the first half and the space seemed to work well for them. Savage was also very influential as their 7th defender.
After half time it went back to 6 man forward lines apiece and our backs were forced to play more of a man on man defence because the ball was coming in under little pressure, especially when Gorringe was in the ruck.

Interestingly in the last quarter we played an 8 or 9 man defence at the centre bounces with 2 of our defenders coming in off the back of the square without a lot of success. The most interesting aspect was watching the interaction of the players. There was some "robust" conversations between a number of the players and at times, there was total confusion.
At one stage one of the players (I can't recall who) was pushed back as a 9th defender and Simpson told him to push out to the wing and pick up a player who was on his own. Walker, who was standing at half back yelled out to the player to overrule Simpson. He player stood there thinking WTF is going on.
Walker then proceeded to run in off the back of the square before the umpire bounced the ball and gave away a penalty.
Bolton talks about equilibrium. There wasn't a lot of that out there today. More a lack of direction and leadership.

The most enjoyment for me was watching Sam Docherty. He is just an absolute gun. Tough, courageous, smart. Simmo rightly gets plenty of plaudits but Docherty is just as influential, but he also plays on an opponent which makes him twice as valuable IMO. He is our real leader IMO and the other unofficial leader which may surprise most is Levi Casboult.
He loves dishing out a bit of pain and the players seem to love the physical presence he offers.


:clap: :clap:

Very accurate insights on Docherty, Levi, and the effectiveness of the spare defenders (Savage/Simpson)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:55 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:40 pm
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Well said BV. I said when we first got Doc he would be a beauty for us. He hasn't let me down.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
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Location: Perth
Wouldn't be surprised if Bolts was behind Dunstall giving us a much deserved clip on OTC tonight.

Separately, they showed some footage of Steven streaming away from congestion multiple times with zero resistance. The ease this was done with is very damning for our players and coaches. Especially with how poor we were the week before in this regard.

Will be watching with interest after the bye to see how we address and rectify this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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The lack of pressure and accountability was very unlike us in 2016. It also had nothing to do with leg speed when you aren't willing to run hard both ways. Not sure why we played the way we did, hopefully BB does, but it was the old Carlton on Sunday. No run and carry, no support or real team defence.

Our midfield setups and clearance just exasperated the lack of team effort. This area however has been an issue for us this year.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:49 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 934
kingkerna wrote:
I think you'll find that Curnow copped a concussion that went unnoticed. Two hits in the first left him dazed

Noticed that too


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1650
tap in 79 wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I don't disagree, but I (and others) would like to hear about different topics from time to time.



I don't have different topics. I just have anger with a situation that sees the club I love being disemboweled.

I don't have the desire to post about Kreuzer, ruckmen problems, speed, midfield depth etc.


Keep it coming Tap. Maintain the Rage!

Flags won by the Lions in the last 15 years: 3
Flags won by the Blues in the last 15 years: 0

Wooden Spoons won by the Lions in the last 15 years: 0
Wooden Spoons won by the Blues in the last 15 years: 4

&&&& the Lions & &&&& the Hawks & every other club l say.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:08 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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That was a highly articulate outburst, Vyvyan.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:54 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Thought Docherty and Plowman were pretty good.
Liked the effort and intensity from Lamb and Armfield.
Like how Cripps fights the games out, and finds a way to contribute.

But overall a really poor effort. Simply didn't match the intensity of the opposition.
Got smashed out of the centre again.
Got tactically found out. Players didn't seem to know how to move the ball, or stop the opposition doing so. You could see the players losing confidence as a result. Lots of fumbling and skill errors as the game went on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:58 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
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I think the entire club from the coach down had their eye on the bye too early. The one week at a time philosophy went out the window.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:29 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Clayman wrote:
I think the entire club from the coach down had their eye on the bye too early. The one week at a time philosophy went out the window.


Players maybe, but all the talk was focused on fixing the level of intensity after the Lions game.

I just think we were tired. As others have said, we lack midfield depth and its caught up with us.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Admit I was a tad flat post game.
Can anyone articulate why we started out with the chipping stlye?
Was it a coach directive..over confidence from players..or just areaction to the saints style from the get go.
It was not the same style that I have been loving to watch at any rate. Pretty disappointing.
I think credit is due to the saints for their energy and determination considering their losses.
I found myself mentally calculating who was out. Phillips murph and charlie curnow would have maybe changed things.
Gorringe ... Still very much a development player. Seems in the light of everitt to me. (Meh!)
Hoping it was across the board exhaustion from the efforts of the past few weeks re most of the team.
I reckon we can come back and give GWS a scare if the above missing 3 are back.
Bondi...you were right..I was wrong re walks. So disappointed..but there it is.
I think its time for KJ or Jack to come in.
:)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:57 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25008
Location: Bondi Beach
Rod Waddell wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I don't disagree, but I (and others) would like to hear about different topics from time to time.



I don't have different topics. I just have anger with a situation that sees the club I love being disemboweled.

I don't have the desire to post about Kreuzer, ruckmen problems, speed, midfield depth etc.


Keep it coming Tap. Maintain the Rage!

Flags won by the Lions in the last 15 years: 3
Flags won by the Blues in the last 15 years: 0

Wooden Spoons won by the Lions in the last 15 years: 0
Wooden Spoons won by the Blues in the last 15 years: 4

&&&& the Lions & &&&& the Hawks & every other club l say.


Good on you

I hope this gains momentum.

I don't like to sound like a winger but enough is enough.

Browny has put the AFL on notice regarding the 2016 draw.
What about the 2015 draw where the AFL had the 2014 wooden spooners (Carlton) play the premiers (Hawthorn) twice.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:10 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25008
Location: Bondi Beach
bluegirl72 wrote:
Admit I was a tad flat post game.
Can anyone articulate why we started out with the chipping stlye?
Was it a coach directive..over confidence from players..or just areaction to the saints style from the get go.
It was not the same style that I have been loving to watch at any rate. Pretty disappointing.
I think credit is due to the saints for their energy and determination considering their losses.
I found myself mentally calculating who was out. Phillips murph and charlie curnow would have maybe changed things.
Gorringe ... Still very much a development player. Seems in the light of everitt to me. (Meh!)
Hoping it was across the board exhaustion from the efforts of the past few weeks re most of the team.
I reckon we can come back and give GWS a scare if the above missing 3 are back.
Bondi...you were right..I was wrong re walks. So disappointed..but there it is.
I think its time for KJ or Jack to come in.
:)


Great post...not the Bondi part, as I'm sure everyone has noticed Jamison and Walker over the last 2 years.
Both heading in the same direction towards the end. Both great servants etc etc. Body or mind can't do it anymore.
I think for Jamo its the former and for Walks it is the latter.

That chipping wasn't free flowing as we have come to expect and get excited by.
I thought at the time our players decided to change the 'tempo of the game because the Saints like all winning teams this year played with an attacking, fast paced , play on at all times type of game.

I wonder if the coaches asked the players to take the game on. If they did, then it is obvious the players were flat and lacked the intensity which bamboozled the Cats.

Saints played against us like we played against the Cats. In their face, playing on a plenty, fast temp game which broke down the defencive zones.

I wonder if BV's observations re set ups was where we lost the game. Did Richardson fnd a way to break down our zones. Possibly.

My view is that every team in the AFL has lost games because the opposition were 5% more intense and committed for longer in the game.
Carlton were tired, not broken.
I'm sure we will have a few surprise wins agaionst teams above us in the 2nd half of the season.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:21 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
TomAlvin'sWig wrote:
pinnell wrote:
Kruez is a B grader at best. A few good games here and there but all B graders do that. Doesn't want the ball in the air which is a liability for a bloke his size (unless he has skills and can run)


A ruck version of Cloke. Just not enough resilience to go with the smarts. Does he play like a 32 year old, 2 then miss 2 to keep his body right?


Kreuzer is the best we've got at the centre bounce when Philips isn't playing.
I think he looks like a 32 yo out there, and I don't think he's going to have a break out year, more likely a break down year.
Love the heart of Kreuze, and at times see his value, but just saying as I'm seeing it. I still believe Philips is our No 1 ruck and Kreuzer is a ruck rover.

I've said it since I started posting on TC back in 2002, you can't go into a GF with 1 bonafide ruckman, so you need 2!
If Kreuzer can't work within that paradigm, that's his limitation, because if he goes down in a GF and Casboult has to ruck, he will run out of puff, as does Kreuzer, and we will lose our KPF for it. Too risky, when you don't get a 2nd chance.

Love it or not, all I'm saying is we need to replace Kreuzer in the future for one reason or another.

Lets see if the MC decide to bring in Philips now he's overcome his hammy injury and had it tested in the VFL.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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5 in a row at Etihad, takes it's toll on any team. Still an unlikely 3 from 5 not too bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Bookie wrote:
5 in a row at Etihad, takes it's toll on any team. Still an unlikely 3 from 5 not too bad.


Etihad is a harder playing surface, an awful ground. They'll welcome the chance to have a good run at the G. Will need more speed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
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Clayman wrote:
I think the entire club from the coach down had their eye on the bye too early. The one week at a time philosophy went out the window.


excuses excuses and more excuses- tell that to Hawthorn going for 4 premierships in a row


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:23 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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TomAlvin'sWig wrote:
Bookie wrote:
5 in a row at Etihad, takes it's toll on any team. Still an unlikely 3 from 5 not too bad.


Etihad is a harder playing surface, an awful ground. They'll welcome the chance to have a good run at the G. Will need more speed.


I didn't want to raise this as an issue or excuse.........but I'm so glad others have!!!!! I have no doubt it took it's toll.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Saints were simply manic with their offensive and defensive pressure. Would've beaten anyone.

Move on...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:56 pm
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SurreyBlue wrote:
TomAlvin'sWig wrote:
Bookie wrote:
5 in a row at Etihad, takes it's toll on any team. Still an unlikely 3 from 5 not too bad.


Etihad is a harder playing surface, an awful ground. They'll welcome the chance to have a good run at the G. Will need more speed.


I didn't want to raise this as an issue or excuse.........but I'm so glad others have!!!!! I have no doubt it took it's toll.


Princes Park anyone? :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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