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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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We are going to lose plenty more games this year.
This was disappointing, not for the loss but because we didn't turn up to play. I mentioned this to Blue Beatle two minutes in when the level of intensity was just not there. I thiought we would win this one.
Challenge for the coach.
It's good that we have the bye coming up. It will give us time to dissect everything and continue on the journey.

To me it showed we need mids and mids. Quick ones with foot skills. We were beaten all over the ground for pace and our foot skills were pretty ordinary.

If someone had asked me to accept 6-6, I'd have taken it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:45 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
jim wrote:
Kreuzer is no good when he shares the ruck duties, stars when he does it on his own most of the day. Been the same for a long time. Ruck/rover type ruckman that needs to stay on the ball. Hence rather one ruckman so we can bring other type of players in, like Jaksch and Silvagni, who continue to kick lots of goals in the VFL. Be nice to bring Phillips in, given his form, but not sure if it helps us overall if it hurts Krezuer's game.


He was trounced today. Simple as that.
his main opponent got 32 hitouts, 14 to advantage.
Now I know you think hitouts to advantage aren't a real stat but when they translate to easy inside 50's and goals you should start believing in them.

Here is the reality.

Kreuzer might be the spirit of Carlton but he is NOT a tap ruckman and when the opposition is cutting your midfield to ribbons because you're being beaten convincingly in the ruck, being good at hustling, pushing, shoving and the rest of the things he does well is not enough. Gorringe dod not fire a shot in anger in the ruck today either, whereas the forst gamer from STK had a few touches and bobbed up for a goal. Gorringe is better at being a forward but he is no ruck or relieving ruck.

Kreuzer did not take one mark today. he had two frees where he was pushed under the ball.

Phillips was BOG in the twos yesterday so he must come in but for whom? He IS a tap ruckman, albeit not the best in the comp by a long shot. Gorringe will have to go for Phillips, I imagine but that means we still have Kreuzer as th #1 ruck and that is a worry.

If we know we are going to get beaten in the hitouts most weeks, we eed to set up the midfield for a losing ruck, which means we need to set up someone goal side of say, Stephens so he doesn't just waltz through the square, across the F50 and have 14 score involvements.

We all love Kreuzer but a tap ruckman he is not. We need to re-invent him as a ruck rover or a slow midfielder and let Phillips take the bounces.


The operative word...TODAY! "Today" is one game.

Very good against Collingwood and Port rucking on his own, especially around the ground. And we know he was very good those games. That's how he's always been when rucking on his own. I would happily sacrifice a few taps for that output around the ground. Way more important. Share him with someone and everything turns to shit.

A 2nd ruckman just clogs up space we can use for another type of player. Not needed when we can just take one ruck, ruck Casboult and bring the likes of Jaksch and SOSOS in. 2 rucks means either one rests at FF, where key forwards are no good, that hurts our forward line alot, or we play two key forwards and two ruck, which hurts our run. I know which way was best, as was borne out on the Collingwood and Port games. That's more the reality. Kreuzer has been a much better player for years when he rucks on his own, especially for his around the ground output. That has been obvious surely for years.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jim wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
jim wrote:
Kreuzer is no good when he shares the ruck duties, stars when he does it on his own most of the day. Been the same for a long time. Ruck/rover type ruckman that needs to stay on the ball. Hence rather one ruckman so we can bring other type of players in, like Jaksch and Silvagni, who continue to kick lots of goals in the VFL. Be nice to bring Phillips in, given his form, but not sure if it helps us overall if it hurts Krezuer's game.


He was trounced today. Simple as that.
his main opponent got 32 hitouts, 14 to advantage.
Now I know you think hitouts to advantage aren't a real stat but when they translate to easy inside 50's and goals you should start believing in them.

Here is the reality.

Kreuzer might be the spirit of Carlton but he is NOT a tap ruckman and when the opposition is cutting your midfield to ribbons because you're being beaten convincingly in the ruck, being good at hustling, pushing, shoving and the rest of the things he does well is not enough. Gorringe dod not fire a shot in anger in the ruck today either, whereas the forst gamer from STK had a few touches and bobbed up for a goal. Gorringe is better at being a forward but he is no ruck or relieving ruck.

Kreuzer did not take one mark today. he had two frees where he was pushed under the ball.

Phillips was BOG in the twos yesterday so he must come in but for whom? He IS a tap ruckman, albeit not the best in the comp by a long shot. Gorringe will have to go for Phillips, I imagine but that means we still have Kreuzer as th #1 ruck and that is a worry.

If we know we are going to get beaten in the hitouts most weeks, we eed to set up the midfield for a losing ruck, which means we need to set up someone goal side of say, Stephens so he doesn't just waltz through the square, across the F50 and have 14 score involvements.

We all love Kreuzer but a tap ruckman he is not. We need to re-invent him as a ruck rover or a slow midfielder and let Phillips take the bounces.


The operative word...TODAY! "Today" is one game.

Very good against Collingwood and Port rucking on his own, especially around the ground. And that's how he's always been when rucking on his own. I would happily sacrifice a few taps for that output around the ground. Way more important. Share him with someone and everything turns to shit.

A 2nd ruckman just clogs up space we can use for another type of player. Not needed when we can just take one ruck, ruck Casboult and bring the likes of Jaksch and SOSOS in. 2 rucks means either one rests at FF, where key forwards are no good, that hurts our forward line alot, or we play two key forwards and two ruck, which hurts our run. I know which way was best, as was borne out on the Collingwood and Port games. That's more the reality. Kreuzer has been a much better player for years when he rucks on his own, especially for his around the ground output. That has been obvious surely for years.


Basically agree Jim but I don't think they want to ruck Casboult for a little while due to his leg.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Now I know you think hitouts to advantage aren't a real stat but when they translate to easy inside 50's and goals you should start believing in them.

You've forgotten the exchange we had the other day about this. :P

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:04 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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Felt very similar to the north game in terms of centre clearances.

North had big key position players too though hence we got smashed that night.

Our defense were at least able to be competitive at times today. Docherty was very good again.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:13 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:17 pm
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I went to the game and after our disappointing win over rubbish Brisbane i thought this would be a danger game and it was. The things which made us bad came back to haunt us again today. Rubbish disposal, lack of manning up and inability to handle pressure resulting in our game falling apart. Hopefully today was just a reality check and we learn from it as on the whole there has been a great deal of improvement this year. On a side note was something that i found irritating which was that with every second goal that the saints kicked they would have the club song blaring over the ground. To me playing the song apart from when the team is coming out or when they win is just arrogance. There are plenty of other ways to build atmosphere and support at the game.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:27 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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I don't like to blame 'bad days' or congratulate 'good days'. You do what you're told and you're paid for that.

Lamb - his job is to make all 60/40 opportunities turn in to goals. He does this.

Kreuzer - beaten by Hickey... Hickey is a next generation ruckman and stat accumulator who I rate highly. Krooze lowered his colours. Bolton I'm sure is watching the type of opponents that K struggles with.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Gotta say the so called fan engagement today after some goals was overstepping the line in some cases. That annoying bloody singing goes for too long. Players shouldn't be subjected to that.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Shit day.

Crap seat in the pocket staring into the sun all day. Morons left right and centre. That crappy saints chant that sounded like a soccer game. Crap result.

MCC or nothing for me now. Getting old, no tolerance for flower.

Close the freakin roof.

Girl at the 4 n 20 stand....wouldn't sell me one of the 100 pies in the warmer at 3 qtr time because they "just closed".

Rant over.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Kruez can't jump.....and that's a big problem!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Mark J wrote:
Kruez can't jump.....and that's a big problem!



He was hobbling before the game

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:55 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Shit day.

Crap seat in the pocket staring into the sun all day. Morons left right and centre. That crappy saints chant that sounded like a soccer game. Crap result.

MCC or nothing for me now. Getting old, no tolerance for flower.

Close the freakin roof.

Girl at the 4 n 20 stand....wouldn't sell me one of the 100 pies in the warmer at 3 qtr time because they "just closed".

Rant over.

I was also staring into the sun, three rows from the front. Was one of the most aggravating days I've had at the footy. As soon as I saw that the roof was open I was worried.
Playing them on the g can't happen soon enough for me.
This loss feels dirty.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:03 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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We've come from the lowest depths imaginable, and I'm not talking about last years wooden spoon either.

Think about what this club has been through for the last 15+ years. From the administration down, we've been to hell and back MORE than once.

Laying blame aside, facts are facts, as a club, or more importantly as a work environment absolutely dismal.

But things are on up. There's no denying it now. We've got a united Carlton (that in of itself is a miracle) and we've all witnessed a small glimpse of what's to come.

A little perspective is needed today. And though disappointed with the loss, I am by no means shattered as I have been over the last 15+ years with the Carlton horror show.

Keep those cigars wrapped and the port in the cabinet.

Tick tock ...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
They shut us down, and picked us apart at the same time. We've been able to trap the ball inside 50 most of this season, but today they weaved their way out.

I said to my brother this will end up being good for us. Someone has put time into us, picked apart our game plan and now we have to come up with an effective Plan B. Hopefully the same thing happens the rest of this season. The more we are challenged, the more we can learn.

Bingo, took players to places they didn't want to be, stopped our run across and out of HB. We stopped looking and bombed.

First 10 min after half time, when.We should have been up, saints were clinical and that was the end of the game

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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kingkerna wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Shit day.

Crap seat in the pocket staring into the sun all day. Morons left right and centre. That crappy saints chant that sounded like a soccer game. Crap result.

MCC or nothing for me now. Getting old, no tolerance for flower.

Close the freakin roof.

Girl at the 4 n 20 stand....wouldn't sell me one of the 100 pies in the warmer at 3 qtr time because they "just closed".

Rant over.

I was also staring into the sun, three rows from the front. Was one of the most aggravating days I've had at the footy. As soon as I saw that the roof was open I was worried.
Playing them on the g can't happen soon enough for me.
This loss feels dirty.



Shit stadium

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Shit day.

Crap seat in the pocket staring into the sun all day. Morons left right and centre. That crappy saints chant that sounded like a soccer game. Crap result.

MCC or nothing for me now. Getting old, no tolerance for flower.

Close the freakin roof.

Girl at the 4 n 20 stand....wouldn't sell me one of the 100 pies in the warmer at 3 qtr time because they "just closed".

Rant over.

I was also staring into the sun, three rows from the front. Was one of the most aggravating days I've had at the footy. As soon as I saw that the roof was open I was worried.
Playing them on the g can't happen soon enough for me.
This loss feels dirty.



Shit stadium


No - Shit managment.

I quite like Etihad............ but it has never been managed properly.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:35 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Etihad is a crap stadium..from a football ,club and financial perspective. No club has won a premiership with etihad as a home ground bar Essendon* in the grounds 1st year in 2000


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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No - Shit stadium.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Shit day.

Crap seat in the pocket staring into the sun all day. Morons left right and centre. That crappy saints chant that sounded like a soccer game. Crap result.

MCC or nothing for me now. Getting old, no tolerance for flower.

Close the freakin roof.

Girl at the 4 n 20 stand....wouldn't sell me one of the 100 pies in the warmer at 3 qtr time because they "just closed".

Rant over.


They need those pies for next week

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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You win some, you lose some.


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