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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Lets see how competitive we are against the Cats.

Could see us having an off game last week, lets see if we bring back our tackling pressure and sharpen up this week against another good opponent.

We are obviously pretty competitive against the bottom 10 teams but long way off top 8 atm obviously.

If we have everyone playing well we can still play some pretty exciting footy and keep building this year. I think effort and taking our opportunities when they come, I'll be happy if they give 100% each week.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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verbs wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
verbs wrote:
We are rebuilding, so five in a row is neither here nor there.

If you look at the group who are under 23, we have Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Byrne, Plowman, Sumner, C Curnow and possibly McKay as regular senior players over the next two years. On the fringes are Boekhorst, Graham, Dick and Jaksch and further outside are Silvagni, Cuningham, Gowers, Foster, Smith, Rainbow.

The next two drafts will be vital in shaping this group to be a top side. Right now we're a long way off.

I have been reading post like this since the early 2000's
It doesn't happen that way


It's how Geelong and then Hawthorn did it. Geelong took 8 years from when they first assembled their core group. Hawthorn took 8 years too, but had a surprise year in 2008.

It can happen other ways too, but this is the path we are taking, hence the 66 game rebuild. How successful we are will be determined after we've had the three drafts. Melbourne look to have nailed multiple drafts and are on the way up.

It may be a long haul but I like the concept. It's not guaranteed to bring a premiership but at least it's using a bit of thought.


Is melbournes draft success a matter of much better development? Look at watts. Nailing a draft means nothing , if it isnt backed up with proper development.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
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Sydney Blue wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
Sydney, that pressure should come to win 5 once we have a finals capable team. I thought we would be lucky to win 8 games this year, let alone 5 in a row.

Reality is we are ten goals off the top echelon.

Freo haven't won a game
Are they 10 goals off the top echelon.
You see not only is the playing group conditioned to losing it has filtered through the coaching staff the administration and the supporters.
The club accepts losing as part and parcel of where they are in the scheme of things. With that attitude they will never go anywhere.
People think that you bottom out build a list wait a few years and everything falls into place. Along the way you accept the belting all call it all part of the journey. But history will tell you that clubs that do this never succeed they languish in the middle of the table rising to the odd final them plummeting again .
The club needs to break this mould. Make every loss hurt and hurt like hell and break through.
Supporters who think we are rebuilding and things will be happy days in 2 to 3 years are dreaming.
Break the mould and start winning these games you are not expected to win and the tide will turn
That is Boltons biggest task


The Bulldogs were developing and underperforming for about 3 years. They're now quite a strong unit.

I think that's what Carlton fans are hoping for. Give the opposition some credit! They're 9 zip. You can only beat the teams you front up against, they've made 2 prelims in a row and will be right up there again.

We're coming from stone motherless last. 18th.

Perspective.

The bulldogs are this years AFL pets the AFL is bustling their butt to get them top 4
Easy draw and 7 to 8 additional frees per game plus the ones the umps let slide.
GWS without Davis Griffen and Hoskin Elliott made them look 2nd rate on the weekend.
GWS is the model on how to rise they were in the same position as the GC and are now miles in front of them.
GC waited for youth to develop GWS combined the youth and topped up with class. Not to disimilar to Hawthorn.
If you look at GWS it is Stevie J Mumford Scully Shaw Ward Davis Griffen that make them a success.


And who recruited those older players? I guess it was sos


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Taff wrote:
They are part of the reason. We lack class and skill and were always going to be found out against quality opposition. Bolton knows that. You will find he is a man of substance not slogans and meaningless cliches.

Very true. I expect him to endure, and not get caught up in the highs and lows, because that's what this reset is all about: the future of this footy club.

Let's keep looking for green shoots on this journey.

aboynamedsue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Phil Krakour looks like he's swallowed his brother Jimmy.


NTTAWWT

:yikes:

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25008
Location: Bondi Beach
Sydney Blue wrote:
verbs wrote:
We are rebuilding, so five in a row is neither here nor there.

If you look at the group who are under 23, we have Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Byrne, Plowman, Sumner, C Curnow and possibly McKay as regular senior players over the next two years. On the fringes are Boekhorst, Graham, Dick and Jaksch and further outside are Silvagni, Cuningham, Gowers, Foster, Smith, Rainbow.

The next two drafts will be vital in shaping this group to be a top side. Right now we're a long way off.

I have been reading post like this since the early 2000's
It doesn't happen that way


Yes it does at other clubs.
We got it wrong.
Like you, we have been scarred, deeply.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18005
Sydney Blue wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
Sydney, that pressure should come to win 5 once we have a finals capable team. I thought we would be lucky to win 8 games this year, let alone 5 in a row.

Reality is we are ten goals off the top echelon.

Freo haven't won a game
Are they 10 goals off the top echelon.
You see not only is the playing group conditioned to losing it has filtered through the coaching staff the administration and the supporters.
The club accepts losing as part and parcel of where they are in the scheme of things. With that attitude they will never go anywhere.
People think that you bottom out build a list wait a few years and everything falls into place. Along the way you accept the belting all call it all part of the journey. But history will tell you that clubs that do this never succeed they languish in the middle of the table rising to the odd final them plummeting again .
The club needs to break this mould. Make every loss hurt and hurt like hell and break through.
Supporters who think we are rebuilding and things will be happy days in 2 to 3 years are dreaming.
Break the mould and start winning these games you are not expected to win and the tide will turn
That is Boltons biggest task


The Bulldogs were developing and underperforming for about 3 years. They're now quite a strong unit.

I think that's what Carlton fans are hoping for. Give the opposition some credit! They're 9 zip. You can only beat the teams you front up against, they've made 2 prelims in a row and will be right up there again.

We're coming from stone motherless last. 18th.

Perspective.

The bulldogs are this years AFL pets the AFL is bustling their butt to get them top 4
Easy draw and 7 to 8 additional frees per game plus the ones the umps let slide.



Do you seriously believe the umpires give the Bulldogs more free kicks because the AFL tell them to?

Its because they're coached to be head duckers. Look at Toby McLean play. He's happy to be a head ducking cheat. He falls into the tackler as soon as he sees them. As of 2 weeks ago, the Bulldogs had more frees than anyone else in the AFL. 75% of those frees were for high tackles. Its a shit rule that is there to be exploited. And they are.
Thats why they're winning free kicks. Not because of any AFL directive.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:06 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21527
Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
Sydney, that pressure should come to win 5 once we have a finals capable team. I thought we would be lucky to win 8 games this year, let alone 5 in a row.

Reality is we are ten goals off the top echelon.

Freo haven't won a game
Are they 10 goals off the top echelon.
You see not only is the playing group conditioned to losing it has filtered through the coaching staff the administration and the supporters.
The club accepts losing as part and parcel of where they are in the scheme of things. With that attitude they will never go anywhere.
People think that you bottom out build a list wait a few years and everything falls into place. Along the way you accept the belting all call it all part of the journey. But history will tell you that clubs that do this never succeed they languish in the middle of the table rising to the odd final them plummeting again .
The club needs to break this mould. Make every loss hurt and hurt like hell and break through.
Supporters who think we are rebuilding and things will be happy days in 2 to 3 years are dreaming.
Break the mould and start winning these games you are not expected to win and the tide will turn
That is Boltons biggest task


The Bulldogs were developing and underperforming for about 3 years. They're now quite a strong unit.

I think that's what Carlton fans are hoping for. Give the opposition some credit! They're 9 zip. You can only beat the teams you front up against, they've made 2 prelims in a row and will be right up there again.

We're coming from stone motherless last. 18th.

Perspective.

The bulldogs are this years AFL pets the AFL is bustling their butt to get them top 4
Easy draw and 7 to 8 additional frees per game plus the ones the umps let slide.



Do you seriously believe the umpires give the Bulldogs more free kicks because the AFL tell them to?

Its because they're coached to be head duckers. Look at Toby McLean play. He's happy to be a head ducking cheat. He falls into the tackler as soon as he sees them. As of 2 weeks ago, the Bulldogs had more frees than anyone else in the AFL. 75% of those frees were for high tackles. Its a shit rule that is there to be exploited. And they are.
Thats why they're winning free kicks. Not because of any AFL directive.

2 of their first 3 goals came from very doubtful 50 metre penalties against GWS on Sunday.
It makes you want to vomit watching Bulldogs games
AFL wants them top 4 they are masters of the competition manipulation picked it up from the NRL and excelled at it

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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that's why you should watch from the grassy knoll SB.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:59 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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No no, lock it in. Its how it is

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:23 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9105
Location: Nth Fitzroy
I believe the AFL manipulate results any way they can. Every now and then a Melbourne based team gets thrown a bone. Like the all the MCG games given to the pies in 2010. Not sure about the Dogs at the moment but it does smell like it. The frees they get are crazy. Even invented ones like Casboult throwing the ball back to forcefully to the ump.

Nothing will compare to the run Sydney gets with result manipulation. Written into the tv rights id imagine.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21527
Location: North of the border
dannyboy wrote:
that's why you should watch from the grassy knoll SB.

Leave the Melbourne bubble for a while Danny and watch from afar its easier to see.
Ive never really taken to NRL but have picked the last 4 GF winners before the season started. Albeit my pick this year looks way off at the moment. But what i will tell you is the NRL are worried about the rise of GWS and the continued success of Sydney so you can put your house on NSW winning the State of Origin.
The AFL has devised a system where everyone is supposed to get a turn at winning. Its a little bit like the school playground where you all get a ribbon.
The only way to beat this system is to do something out of the ordinary much like Sydney did with Tippet and Buddy .The bombers tried to do a geelong but got caught where geelong didn't.
Gold coast and Melbourne got a sniff of it but managed to back peddle away.
Hawks stitched up Tassie plus dollars and clever recruiting.
If the Blues are ever going to be a successful club again they need to stop playing the AFL system and work outside it in spite of the AFL

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:06 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 934
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
Sydney, that pressure should come to win 5 once we have a finals capable team. I thought we would be lucky to win 8 games this year, let alone 5 in a row.

Reality is we are ten goals off the top echelon.

Freo haven't won a game
Are they 10 goals off the top echelon.
You see not only is the playing group conditioned to losing it has filtered through the coaching staff the administration and the supporters.
The club accepts losing as part and parcel of where they are in the scheme of things. With that attitude they will never go anywhere.
People think that you bottom out build a list wait a few years and everything falls into place. Along the way you accept the belting all call it all part of the journey. But history will tell you that clubs that do this never succeed they languish in the middle of the table rising to the odd final them plummeting again .
The club needs to break this mould. Make every loss hurt and hurt like hell and break through.
Supporters who think we are rebuilding and things will be happy days in 2 to 3 years are dreaming.
Break the mould and start winning these games you are not expected to win and the tide will turn
That is Boltons biggest task


The Bulldogs were developing and underperforming for about 3 years. They're now quite a strong unit.

I think that's what Carlton fans are hoping for. Give the opposition some credit! They're 9 zip. You can only beat the teams you front up against, they've made 2 prelims in a row and will be right up there again.

We're coming from stone motherless last. 18th.

Perspective.

The bulldogs are this years AFL pets the AFL is bustling their butt to get them top 4
Easy draw and 7 to 8 additional frees per game plus the ones the umps let slide.



Do you seriously believe the umpires give the Bulldogs more free kicks because the AFL tell them to?

Its because they're coached to be head duckers. Look at Toby McLean play. He's happy to be a head ducking cheat. He falls into the tackler as soon as he sees them. As of 2 weeks ago, the Bulldogs had more frees than anyone else in the AFL. 75% of those frees were for high tackles. Its a shit rule that is there to be exploited. And they are.
Thats why they're winning free kicks. Not because of any AFL directive.


Its not cheating though is it. It may not be pretty, it may not be what you like to see, but it is not cheating. The question should be asked, why arent all clubs doing it. In this even competition any edge should be exploited.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21527
Location: North of the border
padre wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
[quote="The Normal One"]Sydney, that pressure should come to win 5 once we have a finals capable team. I thought we would be lucky to win 8 games this year, let alone 5 in a row.

Reality is we are ten goals off the top echelon.

Freo haven't won a game
Are they 10 goals off the top echelon.
You see not only is the playing group conditioned to losing it has filtered through the coaching staff the administration and the supporters.
The club accepts losing as part and parcel of where they are in the scheme of things. With that attitude they will never go anywhere.
People think that you bottom out build a list wait a few years and everything falls into place. Along the way you accept the belting all call it all part of the journey. But history will tell you that clubs that do this never succeed they languish in the middle of the table rising to the odd final them plummeting again .
The club needs to break this mould. Make every loss hurt and hurt like hell and break through.
Supporters who think we are rebuilding and things will be happy days in 2 to 3 years are dreaming.
Break the mould and start winning these games you are not expected to win and the tide will turn
That is Boltons biggest task


The Bulldogs were developing and underperforming for about 3 years. They're now quite a strong unit.

I think that's what Carlton fans are hoping for. Give the opposition some credit! They're 9 zip. You can only beat the teams you front up against, they've made 2 prelims in a row and will be right up there again.

We're coming from stone motherless last. 18th.

Perspective.

The bulldogs are this years AFL pets the AFL is bustling their butt to get them top 4
Easy draw and 7 to 8 additional frees per game plus the ones the umps let slide.



Do you seriously believe the umpires give the Bulldogs more free kicks because the AFL tell them to?

Its because they're coached to be head duckers. Look at Toby McLean play. He's happy to be a head ducking cheat. He falls into the tackler as soon as he sees them. As of 2 weeks ago, the Bulldogs had more frees than anyone else in the AFL. 75% of those frees were for high tackles. Its a shit rule that is there to be exploited. And they are.
Thats why they're winning free kicks. Not because of any AFL directive.


Its not cheating though is it. It may not be pretty, it may not be what you like to see, but it is not cheating. The question should be asked, why arent all clubs doing it. In this even competition any edge should be exploited.[/quote]
The question that should be asked is that if everyone knows what they are doing why don't the umpires.
Why aren't they calling held or play on you ducked.
The entire football public can see it but the umpires don't.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18005
Sydney Blue wrote:
[
The question that should be asked is that if everyone knows what they are doing why don't the umpires.
Why aren't they calling held or play on you ducked.
The entire football public can see it but the umpires don't.


Because the interpretation of the rules allows the players to do it. The rules committee under the previous spell of Kevin Bartlett believe its OK to duck, weave and manoeuvre to beat a tackle. The umpires must umpire to the interpretation of the rules set buy the rules committee.
When I played in the dark ages, if you contributed to the tackle, it was play on. That interpretation has gone out the window because fools like Bartlett believe players should be able to duck and be rewarded.
He was a cheat when he played and he feels the need to have the game played to his behest still.

Until the AFL has the balls to stop rewarding players for contributing to the tackle, nothing will change. They believe the head is sacrosanct and this interpretation is a protective measure. I believe the interpretation encourages players to duck or fall into the tackle so its not protective, its a reward for inducing high contact.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I get that, but what happens when you don't punish a sloppy tackle? Say, a tackle that starts at the shoulder and slides up accidentally?

If you call play-on, then you're at the very least opening up an avenue for cheap hits to the head. Not everyone's going to do that, but there'll be enough for it to become a problem. I think it is OK to duck a tackle, because otherwise you take a weapon away from some of the smaller and lighter blokes in the competition, and that's bad for the game.

Initial and/or forceful contact to the head needs to penalised, but everyone needs to sit down and figure out what is an acceptable form of tackling in those circumstances rather than try and guess intent. The rule has been smoothed out for when players bend over to get the ball, so now it's just a case of ironing out players not taking their own weight once they feel contact.

Essentially:

If the player's legs drop or they duck before contact, they are fair game subject to a correct tackle, but if they drop their weight or duck after contact no penalty will apply to high contact that isn't initiated by a forceful strike or movement by the tackler.

So no one is guessing intent, they're just rewarding or punishing technique. The tackler isn't penalised unless they change their positioning in the tackle or re-tackle recklessly.

The only way that rule can be exploited is if players genuinely put their head in harm's way just to earn a free kick.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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jimmae wrote:
I get that, but what happens when you don't punish a sloppy tackle? Say, a tackle that starts at the shoulder and slides up accidentally?




If the tackler doesn't duck his head and its a high tackle, its a free kick. Simple
Why complicate it? If the tackler causes the high contact by poor technique, its a free kick. If the person being tackled ducks or drops his knees to induce high contact, play on.
Anything else is encouraging players to duck their heads which in turn creates high contact. Some AFL coaches are actually coaching their players to draw high contact.

Jimmae wrote:
I think it is OK to duck a tackle, because otherwise you take a weapon away from some of the smaller and lighter blokes in the competition, and that's bad for the game.


That makes no sense. Smaller or lighter players are no more inclined to duck their heads.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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That player from Brisbane buckled and uppercut his way to something like 6 FF on debut, most for too high. The interpretation is broken.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I agree Wojee. The rule currently rewards players inducing high contact. How is that protecting the head?

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The AFL are to blame for this crisis.

Carlton players must be aware of what Christensen and Mathieson will do during the round 11 match.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:44 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 934
Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
I get that, but what happens when you don't punish a sloppy tackle? Say, a tackle that starts at the shoulder and slides up accidentally?




If the tackler doesn't duck his head and its a high tackle, its a free kick. Simple
Why complicate it? If the tackler causes the high contact by poor technique, its a free kick. If the person being tackled ducks or drops his knees to induce high contact, play on.
Anything else is encouraging players to duck their heads which in turn creates high contact. Some AFL coaches are actually coaching their players to draw high contact.

Jimmae wrote:
I think it is OK to duck a tackle, because otherwise you take a weapon away from some of the smaller and lighter blokes in the competition, and that's bad for the game.


That makes no sense. Smaller or lighter players are no more inclined to duck their heads.


Of course smaller players are more inclined to duck their heads. What else are they going to do, raise their arms up above the tackle like cripps? That would work well. I dont see sandilands ducking his head- unless he is going under a bridge.


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