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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:23 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am
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That's not positivity....that's getting his ducks in order for a rant at the end of the season :wink:

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:04 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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teagueyubeauty wrote:
That's not positivity....that's getting his ducks in order for a rant at the end of the season :wink:


My mistake :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:30 am 
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Robert Walls
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robertbb wrote:
No club, including the dominant ones in the last decade, have nailed all their picks all the time. List management is as much about turning players over and recycling players until you find a few, as it is getting picks 100% right all of the time.

Footy isn't my line of work, but it seems to me that successful lists are built by:

1) Bringing in quality draft picks and hitting more than you miss (Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Boekhurst... and likely McKay who would have probably gone top 3 this year if he was a week older)
2) Giving opportunities to players who have all the physical attributes but perhaps were set back by injury or denied opportunity by a club with depth (think KJ, Gorringe and the GWS four)
3) Astute trading (think Menzel for Kerridge and Pick 28)
4) Creating a culture and environment that entices players to want to come to your club (Docherty mainly picked us because he's a die hard fan, but it's an example of what can be achieved when a player nominates your club. One possible win this year may yet be Tomlinson assuming he does the same)
5) Managing the cap to allow a star free agent or two to slot in when the foundations are built

I would argue that we've been executing on points 1, 2 and 3 very well. Points 4 and 5 will take a few years. Accordingly I renewed my captains club membership and am on board for the ride.


Great post!
I agree with most of your points... however not sure about point #2.

I think it's worth remembering that the first group of GWS players (KJ/Whiley/Dick) were offloaded by SOS (when he was at GWS)... whereas the second group were brought in to Carlton by SOS.
Obviously with GWS it's a unique situation because they need to turn over so much of their list...
But I will be very interested to see how SOS and the coaches manage KJ and Whiley/Dick, and whether they can maximise their potential.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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GWS were always going to be selling off talent; they'd had huge concessions (still do) and have contracting list requirements.

If we wind up with KJ, Sumner, Plowman and McKay for 2014 Pick 28, 2015 Pick 28 and Henderson, that's a great deal.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25008
Location: Bondi Beach
Its going to take time to get us back up the top.
Whilst we aim to get there so are others, but there's also those at the top who will fall.

The 66 week thingy is something I've given a bit of thought to.

I believe and can see it can turn around, and like all recruits there's no guarantee they will become stars, but I think 66 games is enough with a bit of luck to get us back up the top from a few successes and a few failures, but we have to get our round 1 and 2 picks spot on, and trade a couple of beauties in and a attract a FA with the space Thomas will create.

I expect Byrne and Sheehan to be elevated at the end of the year.
I expect we end with a Pick 1 or 2, plus an early 2nd rounder.
I expect we get something valuable traded in too; maybe a CHF or a CHB.
I expect Casboult to be traded (if we can get his value up this year)...maybe a 2nd rounder or player swap.

I expect Plowman and Sumner to come good.
I expect Weitering and Cripps to be stars.
I expect Cuningham and Curnow to find a spot in the 22 by year's end.
I expect Jaksch will find fitness during the year, and is developed to break into the team.

I expect McKay to build strength this year and have a great preseason and play next year. He's a big boy and can run and present.
More importantly. he can kick long and straight unlike Casboult.

I expect to delist Tutt, Dick, Armfield, Foster and Whiley, maybe Viojo/Walker/Simpson...and Wood from Rookies leaving 3 rookie spots for at least one ruck to develop.

The following year I expect to delist Jones, Rowe, Jamison, White, Walker and Lamb.
So the struggling oldies will have been cleared out for at least 2 good draftees (1st & 2nd round).
I expect a great Trade for the midfield
I expect a great FA either KP or midfield.
I expect Glass to be promoted too because he can really build up over the next 2 years, and from what Ive seen of him he looks very capable FB.

So by 2018 season we will have a very good list with a good spine after turning over another 15 players in 2 years, if not more.

By end of 2018 players on the chopping block will be Everitt, Thomas, Gorringe, Curnow (old age), Buckley, Wright, Smith, Graham....in other words it wont take too long to turn the list over to get what we need.

Bolton and SOS will control all that, along with a new Recruitment Manager and the Board has nothing to do with that other than keeping our club going and brand growing in the northern suburbs, amongst the female species....Blue Skies.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:58 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Shuddup bondi. It's all doom and gloom.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:03 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25008
Location: Bondi Beach
dane wrote:
Shuddup bondi. It's all doom and gloom.



Yeah, but that was the past.

Things can change pretty quickly....if a couple of years is considered quick.

We've already recruited Weitering Cripps Jaksch Plowman Docherty McKay Curnow Kerridge Boekhurst Cuningham Sumner Wright Korchek and one of Viojo/ Gowers/Foster has to come good given that mirror Kernahan broke 7 years ago....

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:35 pm
Posts: 1234
Bluey44 wrote:
robertbb wrote:
No club, including the dominant ones in the last decade, have nailed all their picks all the time. List management is as much about turning players over and recycling players until you find a few, as it is getting picks 100% right all of the time.

Footy isn't my line of work, but it seems to me that successful lists are built by:

1) Bringing in quality draft picks and hitting more than you miss (Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Boekhurst... and likely McKay who would have probably gone top 3 this year if he was a week older)
2) Giving opportunities to players who have all the physical attributes but perhaps were set back by injury or denied opportunity by a club with depth (think KJ, Gorringe and the GWS four)
3) Astute trading (think Menzel for Kerridge and Pick 28)
4) Creating a culture and environment that entices players to want to come to your club (Docherty mainly picked us because he's a die hard fan, but it's an example of what can be achieved when a player nominates your club. One possible win this year may yet be Tomlinson assuming he does the same)
5) Managing the cap to allow a star free agent or two to slot in when the foundations are built

I would argue that we've been executing on points 1, 2 and 3 very well. Points 4 and 5 will take a few years. Accordingly I renewed my captains club membership and am on board for the ride.


Great post!
I agree with most of your points... however not sure about point #2.

I think it's worth remembering that the first group of GWS players (KJ/Whiley/Dick) were offloaded by SOS (when he was at GWS)... whereas the second group were brought in to Carlton by SOS.
Obviously with GWS it's a unique situation because they need to turn over so much of their list...
But I will be very interested to see how SOS and the coaches manage KJ and Whiley/Dick, and whether they can maximise their potential.


I don't think SOS had anything to do with the Dick trade.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Back in reality
Doubly true considering he was a delisted free agent signing via the Swans.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:17 pm
Posts: 1639
Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Blue Boys wrote:
Bluey44 wrote:
robertbb wrote:
No club, including the dominant ones in the last decade, have nailed all their picks all the time. List management is as much about turning players over and recycling players until you find a few, as it is getting picks 100% right all of the time.

Footy isn't my line of work, but it seems to me that successful lists are built by:

1) Bringing in quality draft picks and hitting more than you miss (Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Boekhurst... and likely McKay who would have probably gone top 3 this year if he was a week older)
2) Giving opportunities to players who have all the physical attributes but perhaps were set back by injury or denied opportunity by a club with depth (think KJ, Gorringe and the GWS four)
3) Astute trading (think Menzel for Kerridge and Pick 28)
4) Creating a culture and environment that entices players to want to come to your club (Docherty mainly picked us because he's a die hard fan, but it's an example of what can be achieved when a player nominates your club. One possible win this year may yet be Tomlinson assuming he does the same)
5) Managing the cap to allow a star free agent or two to slot in when the foundations are built

I would argue that we've been executing on points 1, 2 and 3 very well. Points 4 and 5 will take a few years. Accordingly I renewed my captains club membership and am on board for the ride.


Great post!
I agree with most of your points... however not sure about point #2.

I think it's worth remembering that the first group of GWS players (KJ/Whiley/Dick) were offloaded by SOS (when he was at GWS)... whereas the second group were brought in to Carlton by SOS.
Obviously with GWS it's a unique situation because they need to turn over so much of their list...
But I will be very interested to see how SOS and the coaches manage KJ and Whiley/Dick, and whether they can maximise their potential.


I don't think SOS had anything to do with the Dick trade.


Another Malthouse / McKay special ... didn't want to give Waite two years but they had no problem giving Dick 2 and Jones 3 :screwy:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1623
bondiblue wrote:
Its going to take time to get us back up the top.
Whilst we aim to get there so are others, but there's also those at the top who will fall.

The 66 week thingy is something I've given a bit of thought to.

I believe and can see it can turn around, and like all recruits there's no guarantee they will become stars, but I think 66 games is enough with a bit of luck to get us back up the top from a few successes and a few failures, but we have to get our round 1 and 2 picks spot on, and trade a couple of beauties in and a attract a FA with the space Thomas will create.

I expect Byrne and Sheehan to be elevated at the end of the year.
I expect we end with a Pick 1 or 2, plus an early 2nd rounder.
I expect we get something valuable traded in too; maybe a CHF or a CHB.
I expect Casboult to be traded (if we can get his value up this year)...maybe a 2nd rounder or player swap.

I expect Plowman and Sumner to come good.
I expect Weitering and Cripps to be stars.
I expect Cuningham and Curnow to find a spot in the 22 by year's end.
I expect Jaksch will find fitness during the year, and is developed to break into the team.

I expect McKay to build strength this year and have a great preseason and play next year. He's a big boy and can run and present.
More importantly. he can kick long and straight unlike Casboult.

I expect to delist Tutt, Dick, Armfield, Foster and Whiley, maybe Viojo/Walker/Simpson...and Wood from Rookies leaving 3 rookie spots for at least one ruck to develop.

The following year I expect to delist Jones, Rowe, Jamison, White, Walker and Lamb.
So the struggling oldies will have been cleared out for at least 2 good draftees (1st & 2nd round).
I expect a great Trade for the midfield
I expect a great FA either KP or midfield.
I expect Glass to be promoted too because he can really build up over the next 2 years, and from what Ive seen of him he looks very capable FB.

So by 2018 season we will have a very good list with a good spine after turning over another 15 players in 2 years, if not more.

By end of 2018 players on the chopping block will be Everitt, Thomas, Gorringe, Curnow (old age), Buckley, Wright, Smith, Graham....in other words it wont take too long to turn the list over to get what we need.

Bolton and SOS will control all that, along with a new Recruitment Manager and the Board has nothing to do with that other than keeping our club going and brand growing in the northern suburbs, amongst the female species....Blue Skies.



Great summation bondiblue and I concur the reset will not be easy and where cooming from a long way back, but Bolton & SOS are inspirations, professional and enthusiastic, love there mission and will put us on the right path.
Of course Luck has a part in it too, but overall there's light at the end of the tunnel , lets be very patient. Go baggers

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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If tonight is a guide, can we expect Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuz, Simpson, Thomas, Jamo and Rowe to be 'future endeavoured' at the end of the year?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Back in reality
Donstuie wrote:
If tonight is a guide, can we expect Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuz, Simpson, Thomas, Jamo and Rowe to be 'future endeavoured' at the end of the year?

Rowe and Simpson are out of contract and Kreuzer is being used incorrectly, but I have never seen a team run out a regular season game the way the Suns did, they were insane

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Trade Gibbs..............

21 possessions tonight - none of them damaging. Just lazy and goes about it half-assed!

Imagine if we get the #1 draft pick again this year - FIVE #1 picks in the same team??? We'd be a flower laughing stock (moreso than we already are!)


And somebody please tell me that Dale Thomas is into his final year????

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:07 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Half Back Flanker...
We are a professional football team that delivered another wooden spoon last season.

So we went back to the draft, and we still do not appear to have one player on our list that is a half decent forward.

Not one...

Not in the seniors or the Bullants. Because if we did - he would be getting a game.

Not one player on our list, who might be playing down back, has been moved on to the forward line to see how things go.

Even if Simmo or Gibbs were rotating through the forward line, we could say "well at least we are trying something different".

This once great club, with all its expertise and experience, has chosen to bounce back from a wooden spoon & enter a new season with no forward...

We can not be serious...

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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:09 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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You cannot be serious.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Harry McKay says hi , pretty nice of him to go out of his way to do so with the sore back and all.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
Liam Jones says hi

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
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it is hilarious that all our injuries are forwards


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 Post subject: List Management 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:21 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Clayman wrote:
Liam Jones says hi


:garthp:

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