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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:53 pm 
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John James

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:14 pm
Posts: 630
Location: Caroline Springs
thegezman wrote:
Given we were "shocked" not to get any compo for Waite , I'd say we won't know what pick we would get for Kruzer until after the fact.



It all goes on lenth of the deal. If what they are saying is correct, 4 yrs at $700 plus K, Then that would be band 1 compo Pick Pick 2


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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I have a feeling the AFL will somehow screw up out of Pick 2 for Kreuz.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:28 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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So based on the "calculation " what should we have gotten for Waite?...or did we always "know" we would get nothing?

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:34 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 265
Location: Melbourne
Absolutely no way we'd get 1&2.

Not with Brisbane crying out for help and Carlton sitting around with both thumbs up their arse watching the house burn down.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
Toranasaurus wrote:
Absolutely no way we'd get 1&2.

Not with Brisbane crying out for help and Carlton sitting around with both thumbs up their arse watching the house burn down.


the same brisbane beat us twice this year.

we obviously need it more than they do.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4578
Location: Blisstonia.
billc3 wrote:
So based on the "calculation " what should we have gotten for Waite?...or did we always "know" we would get nothing?


Absolutely nothing. 32, 2 years, not massive coin. Club was either naive, or just wanting to make a point.

Plenty of FA's have gone for nothing. Richmond received zilch for Matt White who was much younger and signed a 3 year contract.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 265
Location: Melbourne
Yeah in reality world we'd be fairly compensated.

In AFL world I'm not comfortably satisfied.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 12481
Location: Brisbane
Whilst we may have deserved it, is it totally valid, seeing that many an Essendon* player quite possibly should not have even been allowed to play this season?

#clutchingatstraws

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Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 397
Location: Melbourne
doofdoof wrote:
famousblueraincoat wrote:
They wont give us pick 2. They just wont.

We need a priority pick though..


From AFL Site

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

If it is a decent contract, say 4 years at 700 then we'll get pick 2.


You left off the AFL fine print which states......"In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result."

So could it be anomalous that an ageing, injury prone player could really be worth more than any other Free Agent since the inception of free agency?, maybe it is anomalous that Kruezer could be worth pick 2 and Buddy pick 19?


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 Post subject: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:38 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
Blue Tongue wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
famousblueraincoat wrote:
They wont give us pick 2. They just wont.

We need a priority pick though..


From AFL Site

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

If it is a decent contract, say 4 years at 700 then we'll get pick 2.


You left off the AFL fine print which states......"In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result."

So could it be anomalous that an ageing, injury prone player could really be worth more than any other Free Agent since the inception of free agency?, maybe it is anomalous that Kruezer could be worth pick 2 and Buddy pick 19?

Well, if they are going to somehow let Frawley get pick three and Kruezer not pick 2, our management should be told beforehand. The AFL has set up the compensation system, they should be upfront about what they will do.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:47 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Looking @ past FA transactions. The trigger for band 1 seems to be 550k for 4 years.
Frawley is on that @ Hawthorn and it got Melb band 1.
Dal Santo is on 425ish @ norf but he is older and got STK band 3 (I'm pretty sure).
Daisy @ 625k for 4 years got Pies band 1.

Matty has offers infront of him that will trigger band 1. SOS knows that. Hence why Matty remains unsigned.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19223
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
emtwenty wrote:
Looking @ past FA transactions. The trigger for band 1 seems to be 550k for 4 years.
Frawley is on that @ Hawthorn and it got Melb band 1.
Dal Santo is on 425ish @ norf but he is older and got STK band 3 (I'm pretty sure).
Daisy @ 625k for 4 years got Pies band 1.

Matty has offers infront of him that will trigger band 1. SOS knows that. Hence why Matty remains unsigned.


What about wage inflation due to the new TV deal?

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Effes wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Looking @ past FA transactions. The trigger for band 1 seems to be 550k for 4 years.
Frawley is on that @ Hawthorn and it got Melb band 1.
Dal Santo is on 425ish @ norf but he is older and got STK band 3 (I'm pretty sure).
Daisy @ 625k for 4 years got Pies band 1.

Matty has offers infront of him that will trigger band 1. SOS knows that. Hence why Matty remains unsigned.


What about wage inflation due to the new TV deal?


It'll definitely be interesting to see if the AFL change their 'formula' as wages do begin to go up on average as the cap increases.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:11 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:26 am
Posts: 14695
Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
They'll certainly be keeping their random formula generator under wraps

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Essendon* cheated, simple as that


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:24 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 12481
Location: Brisbane
Please help me.

Should I be concerned with the Blues getting the spoon?

Unfair comp, with teams not playing each other twice.

It's messing with my mind a little.


Filth-supporting brother texts today, saying he's baking a cake and was wondering if I had any spoons.

I replied, 'No. But if it's cupcakes your baking, I've got plenty of cups."

It was the best I could come up with. :yikes:

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:52 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 4678
Location: Melbourne
bluedog wrote:
Please help me.

Should I be concerned with the Blues getting the spoon?

Unfair comp, with teams not playing each other twice.

It's messing with my mind a little.


Filth-supporting brother texts today, saying he's baking a cake and was wondering if I had any spoons.

I replied, 'No. But if it's cupcakes your baking, I've got plenty of cups."

It was the best I could come up with. :yikes:



Forget the unfair comp. But yes, you should be concerned with us getting the wooden spoon. Its disgraceful.


But I'm more concerned with so many people celebrating us getting the #1 pick - like that's gonna help us.


(We have 3 x #1 picks on our list - look how that's helped us?)

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:02 am 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:15 am
Posts: 3175
Location: The Wild West
ryan2000 wrote:
bluedog wrote:
Please help me.

Should I be concerned with the Blues getting the spoon?

Unfair comp, with teams not playing each other twice.

It's messing with my mind a little.


Filth-supporting brother texts today, saying he's baking a cake and was wondering if I had any spoons.

I replied, 'No. But if it's cupcakes your baking, I've got plenty of cups."

It was the best I could come up with. :yikes:



Forget the unfair comp. But yes, you should be concerned with us getting the wooden spoon. Its disgraceful.


But I'm more concerned with so many people celebrating us getting the #1 pick - like that's gonna help us.


(We have 3 x #1 picks on our list - look how that's helped us?)


Having access to the best talent in the draft always helps.

The circumstances now are completely different to 2005-2007. Our No.1 picks would have thrived in the right environment and the club has done it's best to provide this with all the recent changes.

The pick will be worth it in the long run. No glory in finishing second last.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:05 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
toddkurnski wrote:
Blue Tongue wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
famousblueraincoat wrote:
They wont give us pick 2. They just wont.

We need a priority pick though..


From AFL Site

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

If it is a decent contract, say 4 years at 700 then we'll get pick 2.


You left off the AFL fine print which states......"In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result."

So could it be anomalous that an ageing, injury prone player could really be worth more than any other Free Agent since the inception of free agency?, maybe it is anomalous that Kruezer could be worth pick 2 and Buddy pick 19?

Well, if they are going to somehow let Frawley get pick three and Kruezer not pick 2, our management should be told beforehand. The AFL has set up the compensation system, they should be upfront about what they will do.

This!
If he gets a contract offer, the AFL should tell us what pick we would get (in writing, triplicate, signed in blood) as part of our decision making process. I would let him go for pick two but no way for pick twenty.

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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:22 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
emtwenty wrote:
Looking @ past FA transactions. The trigger for band 1 seems to be 550k for 4 years.
Frawley is on that @ Hawthorn and it got Melb band 1.
Dal Santo is on 425ish @ norf but he is older and got STK band 3 (I'm pretty sure).
Daisy @ 625k for 4 years got Pies band 1.

Matty has offers infront of him that will trigger band 1. SOS knows that. Hence why Matty remains unsigned.


Pick 25 for Dal Santo


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 Post subject: Re: The Wooden Spoon
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:43 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2129
Mark J wrote:
Blue Boys wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
Blue Boys wrote:
Another number 1 draft pick that we'll most likely fu(k up, we are a rabble.


We are a rabble because Brisbane won? :?


We are a rabble because we will finish last. Am I being unfair or over critical?


Yep rabble in recent times
What would Melbourne, Bulldogs,Saints supporters give to have our history?

So we finished last, someone has too.
These early picks may help us turn it around!


Unfortunately the AFL only "gives" one good draft pick to a rabble. Pick 1..we need Pick 2, 10, 20 or whatever we can get.

This is an 18 team game...one draft pick isn't going to turn around a sinking ship. Even in the NBA a top 1 draft pick doesn't turn around those teams and they are five or seven players or whatever it is in that game.

I have said it before and I will say it again - Carlton needs to start begging the AFL for assistance.


Extra draft picks, financial aid...whatever it is.
Pride comes before a fall. Well the fall has already happened. Extra pick in the pre-season draft, extra pick in the rookie draft...ask for it. I see no indication from the Carlton management that they are aware of how dire Carlton's situation is. Where was the complaint about Carlton paying "equalisation' taxes. None. Just nothing.



Geelong got there on the back of the father-son loophole...getting Bartel and Ablett (pick 40) etc in the same draft. Hawthorn got there on the back of numerous gifts from the AFL- including paying them extra money from the AFL's coffers to play at the MCG...Carlton needs to be given gifts from the AFL as they give to Sydney, Brisbane, Hawthorn etc...get it now. This club might not be around in 10 years time. The gifts need to start now.


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