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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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King Kenny wrote:
Draft players with good disposal, makes good decisions with ball in hand and has a high footy iq without the ball.

Not sure SoS needs a coach to do that.

Yes but SOS isn't the entire font of knowledge on what makes good decision making, what makes good disposal, what makes a high footy IQ.

The whole point of sabremetrics is to find new options that meet a series of criteria and then deploy scouts/video teams so they can be assessed. You need to craft the correct metrics to do this, and SOS will have his ideas, the coach will have his ideas, the general football community will have their ideas.

Then there will be people who stand outside these metrics who are talented, and that will either shift the current thinking or point out exceptions that should be identified and collated also, where possible.

I've held off posting this for a while but here's a great example of what detailed metrics can deliver you that previously was difficult to scout, in the form of a lecture delivered by Damien Comolli, mostly framed around his time working for Tottenham with the hindsight of today's analytics:

https://vimeo.com/127160940

I don't need to explain to you the benefits of structuring data for analysis and storage purposes, but that will provide you with some insight as to the kind of data that is proving valuable in every elite sport.

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 Post subject: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:29 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Fenway Sports Group use this methodology at Liverpool and obviously Boston Red Socks.

The database application used to establish the metrics is the same as what SoS and co went to Brisbane to discuss earlier this year, not just Aish.

So in summary, I believe SoS is the right person to make those calls, and is using technology to backup his decisions.

The question is then, when does gut feel come in? As the Liverpool example shows, it has worked for a sport outside of baseball with a pretty good strike rate. The key was Suarez and Sturridge as the A graders.


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 Post subject: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:31 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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In fact many lower league clubs around Europe use the Football Manager database as a scouting tool as its built from scouts reporting to Sigames. Now that is cool! Want to discuss a business opportunity Jimmae hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:37 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Suarez worked out OK for Liverpool but the buy price for him was insane at the time.

Gut feel comes into it at every point. If you can see something there, and can articulate such that others can also see it, then you need to look at the metrics to determine what they're missing, if anything.

That's why they're saturating stats with positional tracking, dynamic systems metrics and all that jazz, to see what influence a certain player is having with and without the ball. Then once you've identified what each player is doing and why, patterns emerge when you look at the whole picture (i.e. the game plan and its execution), which allows you to identify weaknesses and how you can cover for them with your existing player group, and what you can recruit to improve as well as a cost estimate for doing so.

Analytics, scouting and economics all rolled into one. This is why SOS needs to work synergistically with the coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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King Kenny wrote:
In fact many lower league clubs around Europe use the Football Manager database as a scouting tool as its built from scouts reporting to Sigames. Now that is cool! Want to discuss a business opportunity Jimmae hehe.

Very true, though a lot of the data SI Games are provided with (outside of the major leagues senior squads) is provided by amateur scouting reports.

Though only Everton have an exclusive rights deal to access the reports and raw data, at least last time I checked.

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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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King Kenny wrote:
Draft players with good disposal, makes good decisions with ball in hand and has a high footy iq without the ball.

Not sure SoS needs a coach to do that.

And ones that don't post pictures of their Todger.


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 Post subject: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:04 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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muzza wrote:
King Kenny wrote:
Draft players with good disposal, makes good decisions with ball in hand and has a high footy iq without the ball.

Not sure SoS needs a coach to do that.

And ones that don't post pictures of their Todger.


That player wouldn't have passed high iq without the footy :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:56 pm
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Is SOS now using this data analysis metric? How many other AFL clubs would be using it?


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 Post subject: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:09 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blu ... 3xjbs.html


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:36 pm 
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Robert Walls

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emtwenty wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Whenever the coach is appointed - I just want it to be early enough so he has a say in list management discussions. Don't want him coming in 3 days before trade period. It's too late to have meaningful input in current carlton players.

SOS is the list manager there is no need for the coach to have to much involvement.
Allowing coaches to much say leaves you with Tutt Jones Boeky etc and loses you Betts Waite Garlett etc

No point in appointing a list manager if the coach is going to have all the input


with a NEW coach it's different - SOS needs to know his game plan etc to draft properly IMO


We only need some simple rules for drafting
Low accurate kick
handball both hands accurately
psycho competitive spirit
future leader

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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:35 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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I want the program that told adelaide eddie was worth the money we wouldn't pay him.


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm not so sure I want that program given the jury is out on their list in its total. They decided Eddie Betts was the right fit for them to improve one aspect of their play.

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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:13 am 
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John James
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Did this software factor in that Eddie is probably around 45 years old now?! Longevity might be an issue...


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:28 am 
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Craig Bradley
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99prelim wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
Whenever the coach is appointed - I just want it to be early enough so he has a say in list management discussions. Don't want him coming in 3 days before trade period. It's too late to have meaningful input in current carlton players.

SOS is the list manager there is no need for the coach to have to much involvement.
Allowing coaches to much say leaves you with Tutt Jones Boeky etc and loses you Betts Waite Garlett etc

No point in appointing a list manager if the coach is going to have all the input


with a NEW coach it's different - SOS needs to know his game plan etc to draft properly IMO


We only need some simple rules for drafting
Low accurate kick
handball both hands accurately
psycho competitive spirit
future leader



don't discount peaheartedness and an unwillingness to play for the jumper. staples of the carlton diet.


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:56 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Braithy you forgot the most important one - kicks to the opposition spare defender everytime you go forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:00 am 
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Craig Bradley
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ah yes. that old chestnut.

it's the only time we're ever consistent with our disposal.


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:58 am 
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Bruce Doull
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emtwenty wrote:
Braithy you forgot the most important one - kicks to the opposition spare defender everytime you go forward.


"Ability to kick while eyes are closed" probably covers off on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:39 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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The ability to have your tackles brushed off by the opposition as if laid on by a 10 year old.

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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:57 am 
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Craig Bradley
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when is Mckay gonna get canned?

seriously. the guy has been a part of the most miserable part of our history. Has been continually ineffectual and incompetent, yet his name never comes up as exiting stage right.

i want to see everyone currently holding down any kind of position in our club for over 2-3 years get sacked, and replaced.

this should be so much more than just a head-coaching search. everything must go. if the board won't fall on their sword, it's the least they can do for this club. a total clean out, no expense spared.


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 Post subject: Re: Our new coach - 2016
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:07 am 
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formerly cj69

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Braithy wrote:
when is Mckay gonna get canned?

seriously. the guy has been a part of the most miserable part of our history. Has been continually ineffectual and incompetent, yet his name never comes up as exiting stage right.

i want to see everyone currently holding down any kind of position in our club for over 2-3 years get sacked, and replaced.

this should be so much more than just a head-coaching search. everything must go. if the board won't fall on their sword, it's the least they can do for this club. a total clean out, no expense spared.


Totally but unfortunately I think he is staying. Why I don't know. Getting him to review his department makes no sense.

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