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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:56 am 
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formerly cj69

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By the end of the year we could easily have a line up like the following:

B: Buckley Jamison Jaksch
HB: Yarran Rowe Tuohy

Foll: Kruezer Gibbs Murphy
C: Boekhurst Cripps Simpson

HF: Bell Henderson Armfield
F: Menzel Casboult Everitt

Int: Docherty Graham Byrne Curnow

Others: Armfield Walker Thomas Whiley Walsh Smith White DVR Sheehan Giles (Judd/Carrazzo retired)

Add picks 4, 9 (Henderson), 22, 40 & 58 plus one or two more and we are in a good spot. Just need to get the selections right.

Looking at that we need to get the best available with first three picks then look at a fwd/ruck and some more midfield run and good ball use. Our defence has enough options. Imagine adding a Brayshaw, Heeney or a Hogan type to that list? 3 years of draft picks along with 1-2 free agents in years 2 & 3 and we could be back up in the top very quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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B: Buckley Jamison Jaksch
HB: Yarran Rowe Tuohy

Foll: Kruezer Gibbs Murphy
C: Boekhurst Cripps Simpson

HF: Bell Henderson Armfield
F: Menzel Casboult Everitt

Int: Docherty Graham Byrne Curnow

So four changes on the weekend's team?

Out

Carrazzo
Wood
White
Walker

In

Jamison
Jaksch
Boekhurst
Byrne

That could happen in the next 3 weeks...

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:11 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Pretty balanced from you cj69.

Where are the kids?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:45 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..would prefer to not lose Hendo..

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:57 am 
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Craig Bradley
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dane wrote:
Pretty balanced from you cj69.

Where are the kids?


The future, mate. The future.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:09 am 
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Rod Ashman
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At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:17 am 
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formerly cj69

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muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


I'm hoping Docherty goes into the middle. I think he would do well and we have enough running defenders.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:26 am 
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Harry Vallence
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ThePsychologist wrote:
muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


I'm hoping Docherty goes into the middle. I think he would do well and we have enough running defenders.


To Gibbs like for me lacks a burst of speed more of a cruiser around the ground. Best suited where he can read the play perfect for HB.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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scottopee wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


I'm hoping Docherty goes into the middle. I think he would do well and we have enough running defenders.


To Gibbs like for me lacks a burst of speed more of a cruiser around the ground. Best suited where he can read the play perfect for HB.


I think you'll find its pronounced Hhkreuzer.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:42 pm 
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John Nicholls
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scottopee wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


I'm hoping Docherty goes into the middle. I think he would do well and we have enough running defenders.


To Gibbs like for me lacks a burst of speed more of a cruiser around the ground. Best suited where he can read the play perfect for HB.


Ratten played Gibbs as a HB sweeper. He knew that's where he's more suited. I've also heard some say too much time in that position is what stifled his development.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:00 pm 
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Ken Hands

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muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


Agree would love to see him on a wing delivering into the forward line.

One of the other Irish boys can take his spot down back.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Gibbs is a classic midfield architect...see Andrea Pirlo in world soccer. Playmaker, sets up others. Let him play between the arcs and finding space I50

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:27 am 
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Bruce Doull
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A few people were raising eyebrows about my suggestion of either a re-rookie for Giles or 39th spot on the list.

Here's where my thinking is at:

Senior Delistings: Judd, Watson, Warnock, Holman, Carrazzo, Ellard

Senior Additions: Silvagni, Rice, Sheehan, Byrne, Mature ruckman (ideally 22-25 year old)

Rookie Delistings: Wood, Johnson, Russell

On the chopping block: Dick, Tutt, White, Rowe, Jones

Now Watson, Wood, Holman, Russell and Johnson could all turn that around still, and we might get no takers for the last list of names given. Hendo might get traded, Jamison and Walker might be stuffed, and so on.

However, if everything goes as expected, Giles is out of contract and if we want to make 5 picks on draft day he's top of the list before trades and the option of dead weight in TPP that comes with delisting someone who has terms for 2016. If Henderson goes and we get two picks back, or a pick and a player, then he's again high up on that list.

We could shuffle around things using the rookie list some more, keep Sheehan, Wood & Byrne all on there for a 3rd year, but Walsh, Fields and Gowers look like they could have an impact in 2016, so they should be afforded to fight it out for at least one nominated role in the pre-season, while Byrne & Sheehan deserve reward for effort. Wood does too, but perhaps he can find that in free agency while we rejuvenate our ruck stocks.

Considering we need to develop a young ruckman (and there's a wagon load of them in the 18-21 bracket who could be picked up late in the rookie draft to develop), and that we need to speculate some rough talent with x-factor and speed into the team long term, I think it's important that we have room to move in the rookie draft to do as much as we can there, so 1 ruck pick and 2 project picks sound great to me.

Giles is right on the margin, and I wouldn't blame the club one bit if he's delisted: they've got work to do and need list space to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:13 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Agro jr wrote:
malleefowl wrote:
We are not in the position of picking up a Dean Rice, a Greg Williams or a Bradley Hogg to add to our Sticks, SOS, Braddles, Kouta, Ratts and Harry Madden. They are the core of a club that you build a quality team around. We don't have them yet. We have to find our next Sticks (12 years), SOS (17 years), Braddles (17 years), Kouta (16 years), Ratts (14 years) and Harry Madden (14 years). Get it?



Not sure if even old George still has another 5-7 years left in him. By my calculations that'd take him past 50.

My bad. You can see what happens in 20 years without a premiership can't you? We start to go senile and end up with dimentia. Make that Rodney Hogg then. :wink: Sorry Matty. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:43 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 am
Posts: 2345
jimmae wrote:
A few people were raising eyebrows about my suggestion of either a re-rookie for Giles or 39th spot on the list.

Here's where my thinking is at:

Senior Delistings: Judd, Watson, Warnock, Holman, Carrazzo, Ellard

Senior Additions: Silvagni, Rice, Sheehan, Byrne, Mature ruckman (ideally 22-25 year old)

Rookie Delistings: Wood, Johnson, Russell

On the chopping block: Dick, Tutt, White, Rowe, Jones

Now Watson, Wood, Holman, Russell and Johnson could all turn that around still, and we might get no takers for the last list of names given. Hendo might get traded, Jamison and Walker might be stuffed, and so on.

However, if everything goes as expected, Giles is out of contract and if we want to make 5 picks on draft day he's top of the list before trades and the option of dead weight in TPP that comes with delisting someone who has terms for 2016. If Henderson goes and we get two picks back, or a pick and a player, then he's again high up on that list.

We could shuffle around things using the rookie list some more, keep Sheehan, Wood & Byrne all on there for a 3rd year, but Walsh, Fields and Gowers look like they could have an impact in 2016, so they should be afforded to fight it out for at least one nominated role in the pre-season, while Byrne & Sheehan deserve reward for effort. Wood does too, but perhaps he can find that in free agency while we rejuvenate our ruck stocks.

Considering we need to develop a young ruckman (and there's a wagon load of them in the 18-21 bracket who could be picked up late in the rookie draft to develop), and that we need to speculate some rough talent with x-factor and speed into the team long term, I think it's important that we have room to move in the rookie draft to do as much as we can there, so 1 ruck pick and 2 project picks sound great to me.

Giles is right on the margin, and I wouldn't blame the club one bit if he's delisted: they've got work to do and need list space to do it.


1. White is contracted.
2. Wood is also contracted.
3. I think that Category B rookies have a minimum of 2 years. May only be for Internationals though but if so, Russell stays on.

Haven't done the whole exercise yet but moving on Holman & Johnson at this stage makes no sense.
There are others that will go well before them via de-listing or trading. Johnson has shown plenty as is still only 19. What are we going to get that's better?
It would mean having to have him on the main list though and the problem may present there if we stay strict on our 38/6 split.

Given the nature of Giles' injury, who knows? Would be unfortunate but like O'Keeffe it may end up just too hard to hold the spot open in hope.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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I wouldn't put Dick on the chopping block.












Someone had to say it.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:35 am 
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Craig Bradley
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moshe25 wrote:
I wouldn't put Dick on the chopping block.












Someone had to say it.



dick has been a bit limp lately.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:38 am 
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Craig Bradley
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ThePsychologist wrote:
muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


I'm hoping Docherty goes into the middle. I think he would do well and we have enough running defenders.



i see docherty as a fulltime halfback and the perfect replacement for simpson.

courageous, reads the play well, intercept mark potential and can run hard over short distances. perfect to set up our rebound.

there's running defenders, sure. but at some point you need one elite one, like we've had with simpson for the last decade. doc can be elite there.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:21 am 
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Bruce Doull
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harker wrote:
1. White is contracted.
2. Wood is also contracted.
3. I think that Category B rookies have a minimum of 2 years. May only be for Internationals though but if so, Russell stays on.

Haven't done the whole exercise yet but moving on Holman & Johnson at this stage makes no sense.
There are others that will go well before them via de-listing or trading. Johnson has shown plenty as is still only 19. What are we going to get that's better?
It would mean having to have him on the main list though and the problem may present there if we stay strict on our 38/6 split.

Given the nature of Giles' injury, who knows? Would be unfortunate but like O'Keeffe it may end up just too hard to hold the spot open in hope.

1. The 'chopping block' list was players to try and trade or delist despite the TPP hit; they're all contracted I believe.

2. You're correct; my bad! Guess he'll be upgraded then instead of us getting a better backup ruck.

3. I don't think there's any provisions that guarantee multiple-year contracts for rookies in the current CBA. I believe the standard contract is a rolling one-year deal with a max of three years on the rookie list in any one stint, and any immediate moving costs are covered before and after the contract.

After reading back through the current CBA, I can tell you that there are three possible list configurations:

38 senior, 6 category A, 3 category B, 2 nominated rookie slots
39 senior, 5 category A rookie, 3 category B rookie, 1 nominated rookie slot
40 senior, 4 category A rookie, 3 category B rookie

Based on that, Byrne will stay as a rookie next season, and Russell may as well depending on if we unearth anything better as far as Cat B goes (unless he fails to improve at all), but also Wood and Sheehan are highly likely to be promoted.

I think there's better AFL HFF prospects out there than Johnson, though I agree that Holman is showing improvement.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:32 am 
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formerly cj69

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Braithy wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
muzza wrote:
At some point soon they have to let Tuohy off the leash and into the middle. Someone can then fill that hole in the back line and learn there.


I'm hoping Docherty goes into the middle. I think he would do well and we have enough running defenders.



i see docherty as a fulltime halfback and the perfect replacement for simpson.

courageous, reads the play well, intercept mark potential and can run hard over short distances. perfect to set up our rebound.

there's running defenders, sure. but at some point you need one elite one, like we've had with simpson for the last decade. doc can be elite there.


Docherty would be good wherever he plays. In his first year at Carlton he played a lot through the middle and did well. Considering the amount of running defenders we have (Yarran, Sheehan, Byrne, Buckley, Simpson, DVR, Tuohy, Walker) I'd like to see him back there as it's a position where we lack talented depth.

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