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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:35 am 
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Harry Vallence

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There is still one tag he's gotta release, Curnow to the VFL permanently where his fumbling and horrible kicking won't be noticed as much.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:57 am 
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Bruce Doull
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bosman wrote:
If Barker can get them playing like this every week, would be a certain coach next year....

Hope not. That's what the Carlton of the past 10 years would do though. Saves them actually having to do a proper search.

The players are currently in their "ding dong the witch is dead" phase and are running like gazelles. No matter what, the club needs to do the right thing for once and hire the best guy for the job after a thorough search and interview process, and if that reveals Barker to be the guy for the job, then so be it.

Personally I would prefer someone from outside the club with a completely fresh perspective and new ideas, and Barker has been present for too many of this club's poor on (including his own) and off field decisions for my liking.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:02 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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How bloody refreshing was it to hear the senior coach in his post match press conference admit they got something wrong during the game. (Referring to the White/Walker rotation). Fantastic to hear the coaching group review their own performance and admit their mistakes. Without that honestly, there won't be improvement.
You could wait 100 years to hear Malthouse admit his mistakes. (And there were shitloads of them).

Credit to Barker. Its a simple strategy but when you have more numbers and ascendancy at the contest, it's imperative you utilise those numbers to spread from the contest. Instead of the moronic coaching of Malthouse that directed the players to kick the ball from the contest to where the opposition had the ascendancy. :screwy:

Watching Carlton players running the ball in numbers and drawing their opponents before releasing it to their team mates was magnificent.
It also frustrates the hell out of me because we've wasted the past 2 years of development playing @#$%&! disgraceful, bloody minded football. It will take a bit of time but we will only see improvement from here. It was also fantastic hearing Barker credit the leaders for driving the increase in effort. Listening to Murphy after the game, I have no doubt the leaders will now be given the opportunity to grow and make a real contribution.

A burden has been lifted from the club and I hope it never has the opportunity to stick it's head back in our doors again.

Good @#$%&! riddance.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:25 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
How bloody refreshing was it to hear the senior coach in his post match press conference admit they got something wrong during the game. (Referring to the White/Walker rotation). Fantastic to hear the coaching group review their own performance and admit their mistakes. Without that honestly, there won't be improvement.
You could wait 100 years to hear Malthouse admit his mistakes. (And there were shitloads of them).

Credit to Barker. Its a simple strategy but when you have more numbers and ascendancy at the contest, it's imperative you utilise those numbers to spread from the contest. Instead of the moronic coaching of Malthouse that directed the players to kick the ball from the contest to where the opposition had the ascendancy. :screwy:

Watching Carlton players running the ball in numbers and drawing their opponents before releasing it to their team mates was magnificent.
It also frustrates the hell out of me because we've wasted the past 2 years of development playing @#$%&! disgraceful, bloody minded football. It will take a bit of time but we will only see improvement from here. It was also fantastic hearing Barker credit the leaders for driving the increase in effort. Listening to Murphy after the game, I have no doubt the leaders will now be given the opportunity to grow and make a real contribution.

A burden has been lifted from the club and I hope it never has the opportunity to stick it's head back in our doors again.

Good @#$%&! riddance.


hey BV,
What are your thoughts regarding Andy walker?
I find him a real puzzle.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:29 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Donstuie wrote:

Personally I would prefer someone from outside the club with a completely fresh perspective and new ideas, and Barker has been present for too many of this club's poor on (including his own) and off field decisions for my liking.




personally, i'd just prefer we win. whoever is coaching us, i want to win. if barker is that guy, so be it. he shouldn't be judged on anything the club did when he was a line coach. a line coach primarily reads from the senior coach's handbook. and under malthouse in particular, who was a micro-manager and control freak, the line coaches were afforded little input. they just passed on the instructions.

sure do a process to find our next coach, but at the end of that process, if barker is the right guy to take us forward, why wouldn't we get behind him? his resume reads every bit as good as dew's as far doing his time in winning programs under excellent head coaches.

i guess what i'm saying is judge barker on his time as headcoach ... not his time working underneath someone else's grand plan.

so far barker is accountable for his actions, and refuses to get excited about honourable losses. he seems to have a hunger to win and a vision for how it's going to happen.

it's refreshing. be interesting to see if it's just a honeymoon phase or something more permanent.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:30 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Blue Vain wrote:
How bloody refreshing was it to hear the senior coach in his post match press conference admit they got something wrong during the game. (Referring to the White/Walker rotation). Fantastic to hear the coaching group review their own performance and admit their mistakes. Without that honestly, there won't be improvement.
You could wait 100 years to hear Malthouse admit his mistakes. (And there were shitloads of them).

Credit to Barker. Its a simple strategy but when you have more numbers and ascendancy at the contest, it's imperative you utilise those numbers to spread from the contest. Instead of the moronic coaching of Malthouse that directed the players to kick the ball from the contest to where the opposition had the ascendancy. :screwy:

Watching Carlton players running the ball in numbers and drawing their opponents before releasing it to their team mates was magnificent.
It also frustrates the hell out of me because we've wasted the past 2 years of development playing @#$%&! disgraceful, bloody minded football. It will take a bit of time but we will only see improvement from here. It was also fantastic hearing Barker credit the leaders for driving the increase in effort. Listening to Murphy after the game, I have no doubt the leaders will now be given the opportunity to grow and make a real contribution.

A burden has been lifted from the club and I hope it never has the opportunity to stick it's head back in our doors again.

Good @#$%&! riddance.


:clap:

The absolutely galling part is how much we paid the bloke who oversaw such tripe.
And the mates be brought along on big coin as well.

Spot on about admitting responsibility. Who me????? Mike never made mistakes.

Still, like the players, we need to look ahead.
Feels like a weight has been lifted off everyone's shoulders.
Let's hope the boys keep playing that way.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17998
bluegirl72 wrote:
What are your thoughts regarding Andy walker?
I find him a real puzzle.


I'm not overly surprised by Walkers form. IMHO, he's always been an average kick and shoulder injuries have impacted on his marking and ability to spoil the ball.
His true value is his speed and endurance. For a 6'3" player, he has burst from the contest and he can run all day. That has been taken away from him currently due to a significantly reduced pre-season/early season. Injury has robbed him of the opportunity to get miles in his legs and I'd suggest he's currently on a significantly reduced program due to his knee.
That will only amplify any skill deficiencies.
He would be struggling for a bit of confidence like most of our players and he's also carrying the burden of his body letting him down. Without his athleticism, he's been robbed of his one strength.
I wouldn't give up on him. He's a good player when he is fit and healthy.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
We still suck at zone defending;


Why would you be surprised at that? You can't set a zone when 3 or 4 of your players are running around tagging.
If we want to set up a pure zone, the 18 players on the field have to guard specific space, not players. Any compromise is simply opening up avenues for the opposition to use.
We haven't set up a reasonable zone or press for 3 years.

I'd be giving Barker kudos for releasing the tags and allowing the players the opportunity to set up properly, not blaming him. It will just take a bit of time to re-adjust.

All fair points, just a bit despondent about how dependent we are on Simpson's ability to read the play and move into space and then close as needed.

It's not rocket science but we seem to have players who are genuinely poor at this, as if they need to look at their own feet to keep themselves balanced rather than look forward and see where the ball is coming from and cut off the percentage passes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
What are your thoughts regarding Andy walker?
I find him a real puzzle.


I'm not overly surprised by Walkers form. IMHO, he's always been an average kick and shoulder injuries have impacted on his marking and ability to spoil the ball.
His true value is his speed and endurance. For a 6'3" player, he has burst from the contest and he can run all day. That has been taken away from him currently due to a significantly reduced pre-season/early season. Injury has robbed him of the opportunity to get miles in his legs and I'd suggest he's currently on a significantly reduced program due to his knee.
That will only amplify any skill deficiencies.
He would be struggling for a bit of confidence like most of our players and he's also carrying the burden of his body letting him down. Without his athleticism, he's been robbed of his one strength.
I wouldn't give up on him. He's a good player when he is fit and healthy.


ta for that. :smile:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jimmae wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
We still suck at zone defending;


Why would you be surprised at that? You can't set a zone when 3 or 4 of your players are running around tagging.
If we want to set up a pure zone, the 18 players on the field have to guard specific space, not players. Any compromise is simply opening up avenues for the opposition to use.
We haven't set up a reasonable zone or press for 3 years.

I'd be giving Barker kudos for releasing the tags and allowing the players the opportunity to set up properly, not blaming him. It will just take a bit of time to re-adjust.

All fair points, just a bit despondent about how dependent we are on Simpson's ability to read the play and move into space and then close as needed.

It's not rocket science but we seem to have players who are genuinely poor at this, as if they need to look at their own feet to keep themselves balanced rather than look forward and see where the ball is coming from and cut off the percentage passes.


All part of the deprogramming .

MM gave half the team a footballing lobotomy.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:37 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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If every decision we've made over the last 15 years regarding coaching appointments has been the wrong decision, wouldn't be worth considering the whole idea of going through a thorough process to find the best possible coach is the wrong decision, and the obvious choice should be Barker. And true to form we've backed ourselves into a corner by stating to the football world we will go through a thorough process when all along the right person for the job is already coach and we'll be making an absolutely monumental error (again) by bringing someone else in.

Quote:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1650
idle wrote:
If every decision we've made over the last 15 years regarding coaching appointments has been the wrong decision, wouldn't be worth considering the whole idea of going through a thorough process to find the best possible coach is the wrong decision, and the obvious choice should be Barker. And true to form we've backed ourselves into a corner by stating to the football world we will go through a thorough process when all along the right person for the job is already coach and we'll be making an absolutely monumental error (again) by bringing someone else in.

Quote:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


Is that like we had Lyon & Woosha as assistants all those years ago


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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idle wrote:
If every decision we've made over the last 15 years regarding coaching appointments has been the wrong decision, wouldn't be worth considering the whole idea of going through a thorough process to find the best possible coach is the wrong decision, and the obvious choice should be Barker. And true to form we've backed ourselves into a corner by stating to the football world we will go through a thorough process when all along the right person for the job is already coach and we'll be making an absolutely monumental error (again) by bringing someone else in.

Quote:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


So we should stick to the opposite of every instinct we have?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:43 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:37 am
Posts: 770
Blue Vain wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
What are your thoughts regarding Andy walker?
I find him a real puzzle.


I'm not overly surprised by Walkers form. IMHO, he's always been an average kick and shoulder injuries have impacted on his marking and ability to spoil the ball.
His true value is his speed and endurance. For a 6'3" player, he has burst from the contest and he can run all day. That has been taken away from him currently due to a significantly reduced pre-season/early season. Injury has robbed him of the opportunity to get miles in his legs and I'd suggest he's currently on a significantly reduced program due to his knee.
That will only amplify any skill deficiencies.
He would be struggling for a bit of confidence like most of our players and he's also carrying the burden of his body letting him down. Without his athleticism, he's been robbed of his one strength.
I wouldn't give up on him. He's a good player when he is fit and healthy.



I couldn't agree more BV , I always use Walker's kicking kicking as a barometer of where he is at , it's always the first to go for him. Has been injured the last 2 years, which restricts his biggest asset, as you said , his running . Hopefully the club use the rest of this year to do the best thing ( whatever plan or program that is) for walks, Kreuz, Hendo etc, so they are 100% ready to go next year, if not traded.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:52 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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kennyhunter wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
How bloody refreshing was it to hear the senior coach in his post match press conference admit they got something wrong during the game. (Referring to the White/Walker rotation). Fantastic to hear the coaching group review their own performance and admit their mistakes. Without that honestly, there won't be improvement.
You could wait 100 years to hear Malthouse admit his mistakes. (And there were shitloads of them).

Credit to Barker. Its a simple strategy but when you have more numbers and ascendancy at the contest, it's imperative you utilise those numbers to spread from the contest. Instead of the moronic coaching of Malthouse that directed the players to kick the ball from the contest to where the opposition had the ascendancy. :screwy:

Watching Carlton players running the ball in numbers and drawing their opponents before releasing it to their team mates was magnificent.
It also frustrates the hell out of me because we've wasted the past 2 years of development playing @#$%&! disgraceful, bloody minded football. It will take a bit of time but we will only see improvement from here. It was also fantastic hearing Barker credit the leaders for driving the increase in effort. Listening to Murphy after the game, I have no doubt the leaders will now be given the opportunity to grow and make a real contribution.

A burden has been lifted from the club and I hope it never has the opportunity to stick it's head back in our doors again.

Good @#$%&! riddance.


:clap:

The absolutely galling part is how much we paid the bloke who oversaw such tripe.
And the mates be brought along on big coin as well.

Spot on about admitting responsibility. Who me????? Mike never made mistakes.

Still, like the players, we need to look ahead.
Feels like a weight has been lifted off everyone's shoulders.
Let's hope the boys keep playing that way.



How about sheeting the blame for this debacle where it truly lies, and that is with the group of bananas that were responsible for the appointment in the first place.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:05 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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BigKev wrote:
idle wrote:
If every decision we've made over the last 15 years regarding coaching appointments has been the wrong decision, wouldn't be worth considering the whole idea of going through a thorough process to find the best possible coach is the wrong decision, and the obvious choice should be Barker. And true to form we've backed ourselves into a corner by stating to the football world we will go through a thorough process when all along the right person for the job is already coach and we'll be making an absolutely monumental error (again) by bringing someone else in.

Quote:
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


So we should stick to the opposite of every instinct we have?


That's the theory I'm suggesting. Its worked for George Costanza ....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:15 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
What are your thoughts regarding Andy walker?
I find him a real puzzle.


I'm not overly surprised by Walkers form. IMHO, he's always been an average kick and shoulder injuries have impacted on his marking and ability to spoil the ball.
His true value is his speed and endurance. For a 6'3" player, he has burst from the contest and he can run all day. That has been taken away from him currently due to a significantly reduced pre-season/early season. Injury has robbed him of the opportunity to get miles in his legs and I'd suggest he's currently on a significantly reduced program due to his knee.
That will only amplify any skill deficiencies.
He would be struggling for a bit of confidence like most of our players and he's also carrying the burden of his body letting him down. Without his athleticism, he's been robbed of his one strength.
I wouldn't give up on him. He's a good player when he is fit and healthy.

He had his best year up forward. He kicked straight and at one stage IIR had something like 11-1.
He also marked everything that came near him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LhdJ5O4OGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7lBOtuTrRU

It was after his run of injuries. Your first line doesn't ring true.

He kicked his GOTY nomination from half back when he ran through an entire team and kicked from just outside 50. That was after his string of injuries too, if I'm not mistaken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R35FSrzvgHM

To me he is wasted where he is and isn't able to run. I agree with you there. I would play him in the forward line or give him a similar role that Everitt seems to have as a roaming winger/forward.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:50 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2432
AGRO wrote:
kennyhunter wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
How bloody refreshing was it to hear the senior coach in his post match press conference admit they got something wrong during the game. (Referring to the White/Walker rotation). Fantastic to hear the coaching group review their own performance and admit their mistakes. Without that honestly, there won't be improvement.
You could wait 100 years to hear Malthouse admit his mistakes. (And there were shitloads of them).

Credit to Barker. Its a simple strategy but when you have more numbers and ascendancy at the contest, it's imperative you utilise those numbers to spread from the contest. Instead of the moronic coaching of Malthouse that directed the players to kick the ball from the contest to where the opposition had the ascendancy. :screwy:

Watching Carlton players running the ball in numbers and drawing their opponents before releasing it to their team mates was magnificent.
It also frustrates the hell out of me because we've wasted the past 2 years of development playing @#$%&! disgraceful, bloody minded football. It will take a bit of time but we will only see improvement from here. It was also fantastic hearing Barker credit the leaders for driving the increase in effort. Listening to Murphy after the game, I have no doubt the leaders will now be given the opportunity to grow and make a real contribution.

A burden has been lifted from the club and I hope it never has the opportunity to stick it's head back in our doors again.

Good @#$%&! riddance.


:clap:

The absolutely galling part is how much we paid the bloke who oversaw such tripe.
And the mates be brought along on big coin as well.

Spot on about admitting responsibility. Who me????? Mike never made mistakes.

Still, like the players, we need to look ahead.
Feels like a weight has been lifted off everyone's shoulders.
Let's hope the boys keep playing that way.



How about sheeting the blame for this debacle where it truly lies, and that is with the group of bananas that were responsible for the appointment in the first place.


Jimmbo's about the only poster who doesn't hold the muppets on the board ultimately responsible.
And if we're not careful they will get away with it again.
But Mike has to be held accountable for his shit performance as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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kennyhunter wrote:
Jimmbo's about the only poster who doesn't hold the muppets on the board ultimately responsible.

Please don't put words in my mouth, that statement could not be any further from the truth.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:20 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Posts: 11671
kennyhunter wrote:
AGRO wrote:
kennyhunter wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
How bloody refreshing was it to hear the senior coach in his post match press conference admit they got something wrong during the game. (Referring to the White/Walker rotation). Fantastic to hear the coaching group review their own performance and admit their mistakes. Without that honestly, there won't be improvement.
You could wait 100 years to hear Malthouse admit his mistakes. (And there were shitloads of them).

Credit to Barker. Its a simple strategy but when you have more numbers and ascendancy at the contest, it's imperative you utilise those numbers to spread from the contest. Instead of the moronic coaching of Malthouse that directed the players to kick the ball from the contest to where the opposition had the ascendancy. :screwy:

Watching Carlton players running the ball in numbers and drawing their opponents before releasing it to their team mates was magnificent.
It also frustrates the hell out of me because we've wasted the past 2 years of development playing @#$%&! disgraceful, bloody minded football. It will take a bit of time but we will only see improvement from here. It was also fantastic hearing Barker credit the leaders for driving the increase in effort. Listening to Murphy after the game, I have no doubt the leaders will now be given the opportunity to grow and make a real contribution.

A burden has been lifted from the club and I hope it never has the opportunity to stick it's head back in our doors again.

Good @#$%&! riddance.


:clap:

The absolutely galling part is how much we paid the bloke who oversaw such tripe.
And the mates be brought along on big coin as well.

Spot on about admitting responsibility. Who me????? Mike never made mistakes.

Still, like the players, we need to look ahead.
Feels like a weight has been lifted off everyone's shoulders.
Let's hope the boys keep playing that way.



How about sheeting the blame for this debacle where it truly lies, and that is with the group of bananas that were responsible for the appointment in the first place.


Jimmbo's about the only poster who doesn't hold the muppets on the board ultimately responsible.
And if we're not careful they will get away with it again.
But Mike has to be held accountable for his shit performance as well.

He has been hasn't he?

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