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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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No1Blue wrote:
It was Ratts recruiting department, the likes of Rogers and Hughes who recruited them.


Ratten must have been a captain coach then. I was probably in a coma around the 2003/2004 period.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:09 pm 
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Carl's latest article says the club won't resign him on his current pay scale.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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John James wrote:
Carl's latest article says the club won't resign him on his current pay scale.

And that's the way it should be.

Well done to the club, they're sitting down and doing analytics at all levels, and they're going to reap the rewards for that.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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verbs wrote:
I reckon Malthouse would've had us playing finals if he'd had Ratten's list.


Mine is a slightly different take on that Verbs. I reckon that if Malthouse had taken over as coach at the end of 2007 then we would have a different list in 2008-2015. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have made more out of the opportunity to build a team for sustained success during that period. We'll never know obviously, but I reckon we'd be a different place as a club right now.

Anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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aboynamedsue wrote:
verbs wrote:
I reckon Malthouse would've had us playing finals if he'd had Ratten's list.


Mine is a slightly different take on that Verbs. I reckon that if Malthouse had taken over as coach at the end of 2007 then we would have a different list in 2008-2015. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have made more out of the opportunity to build a team for sustained success during that period. We'll never know obviously, but I reckon we'd be a different place as a club right now.

Anyway.


Makes sense he would've done a better job than Ratten given he's had vastly more experience at doing something like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:39 pm 
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Don't think Malthouse would have worked well with our list around 2009 to 2011. We were at our best when played a daring game style and the likes of Garlett, Betts and Yarran got on the end of it. Remember that Geelong game in 2009?

Malthouse had a slow ball movement with no play through the corridor. He wasn't a suitable appointment for our list.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:43 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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No1Blue wrote:
BV What you and a lot of blues fans on this forum seem to so easily forget are a number of different points and logic that you just can't see...


2. You never mentioned Ratts recruiting and development record: how many gems in there?? We picked up bower, Davies, Kerr, McCarthy , Mitchell, bootsma, Benjamin, Lucas, Joseph, only good things Ratts did recruitment was an established star in Judd who was brought in by the pratts, yarran with pick 6. Garlett as a rookie, most of our other senior players were established from the pagan days... Our recruiting was pathetic.


OK I'll play your silly game and pretend the coach does the recruiting. Some of those players were recruited before Ratten got to the club and others were re-signed or drafted under Malthouses reign but you're not big on truth and facts are you?

No1Blue wrote:
3. As it turns out we lost something like 9 games by less than 2 kicks last year as well.


6 actually but once again you're not great with the truth.

No1Blue wrote:
4. Mick's record: Mick record speaks for itself, 3 flags overall, 4 grand finals during his time at coll,numerous succesful rebuilds. And the players love him.


I'm sure they love their Mothers as well. Would you like to sign them to coach as it's such an important criteria for you?

No1Blue wrote:
You make some logical points BV but when analyzing your posts on here it just appears that you just don't like grumpy Mick, he offends you.


Yeah, yeah, when you've got nothing it comes back to me being a Mick hater. :lol: Just like I was a Pagan hater when I thought he was past it, just like I was a Lance hater when I thought he was lazy and just like I was called a Waitey hater because I thought he was undisciplined.

Thanks for imparting your "logic" on us No.1Blue.
:thumbsup:

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Well, at the interview Malthouse would have confirmed the way he wanted the team to do, who can do what, who will have to go and who we should get in.....


But what would I know

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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John James wrote:
Don't think Malthouse would have worked well with our list around 2009 to 2011. We were at our best when played a daring game style and the likes of Garlett, Betts and Yarran got on the end of it. Remember that Geelong game in 2009?

Malthouse had a slow ball movement with no play through the corridor. He wasn't a suitable appointment for our list.

That's my point. We would have built a different list in that period if Malthouse had been appointed in 2007.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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BigKev wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
I think Malthouse is great at building a list and moulding them into a team.
I am open to the possibility that he may no longer be a great match day coach and that he is not up with the current coaching best practice. Although, I suspect he is quite capable of morphing (again) - his 2010 Pies pioneered crazy forward pressure and that was only a few years back...

However, one of the main reasons I think we should sign him up for another 2-3yrs is that I have very little confidence in our current leaders to select the best new coach. And the risk of stuffing up another 3-5yrs until we work out whether a new coach is the right coach is too great. MAYBE if they poach an existing coach, whether it be Ross Lyon or one of the Scott brothers. However, we have tried picking the 'best' coach before and, as above, I'm not sure we have the expertise to differentiate between who is 'seen' as the best and who will be the best for us. For examaple, I reckon given the choice b/w Ayers and Clarkson, we'd have chosen Ayers. Given the choice between Hinkley and Eade, we would have picked Eade. We'd pick Neil Craig instead of Luke Beveridge. We would never have picked Phil Walsh.

I could be proven wrong - we have made a lot of changes at the top. I'm just not convinced yet.
So, I'd sign up Malthouse for another 2 years and challenge him to finish what he's started. Then, in 2yrs time, re-evaluate both his performance and we would also have a clearer picture of how the club is being run - do we really have an aligned understanding about where we are headed? Are people on the Board and in the right roles at the club for the right reasons?


That's an interesting post 17th'. When would you re-sign him? (In other words would this years results be a factor in this?).


I would wait until Round 10-ish/mid year. If we get to midseason and we have won 4 games or more AND we can see the team evolving then I'd re-sign him for 2 years.
Notwithstanding what I've said above, if we have not won at least 3 or 4 games by then I'd reconsider, depending on how we are playing; and there are two things I'd look for:
1) Tackling, effort - even a terrible team can tackle ferociously and pressure the opposition
2) Structure/positioning - in the first few games, we puffed ourselves chasing but it was like we'd follow every opposition player if they ran in a circle allowing their teammate to free up.

If we are not tackling and/or still running in circles, it means that either Malthouse is not teaching the correct structures/intensity or the players are not buying into his approach. If it is the former, he has to go. If it is the latter, then is it because he is unable to motivate them or because this is an 'unmotivatable' group...?
And this is where our culture comes into it - if the players just couldn't be bothered or are too stupid to follow instructions. In this case, it won't matter if we had the best coach in the world, we would not improve.
And unfortunately I think this has been a significant part of our problem over the past 10 years.

Look, I don't know who the next batch of coaches are. I would never have predicted Beveridge or Walsh would be senior coaches and doing so well. Maybe there are a bunch of amazing young coaches but, as I've said, I'm not sure I trust our leadership to make the right choice at this stage. And we know Malthouse can build a list and a strong culture - these are our most urgent needs.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:13 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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17th Premiership wrote:
2) let Malthouse coach out his contract. Do not extend until midway through next season. Base this decision on results. If Port can improve as they did, and Stk can show promise as it has, we should be able to show marked improvement b/w now and 10 rounds into next season.


This was your post 12 months ago. Now...

17th Premiership wrote:
I would wait until Round 10-ish/mid year. If we get to midseason and we have won 4 games or more AND we can see the team evolving then I'd re-sign him for 2 years.
Notwithstanding what I've said above, if we have not won at least 3 or 4 games by then I'd reconsider, depending on how we are playing; and there are two things I'd look for:


Have you seen any form of improvement whatsoever? Now you're offering 2 year extensions based on 3 wins from 10 games. FMD, some of you need to go back and look at your posts over the years. You are slowly being conditioned to accept shitbag performances based on the premise that our board/management don't have the capability to find us anything better.
Expect them to do their job properly or @#$%&! them off and get someone better.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Goltzenberg wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Blue Vain, why don't you tell us more about rats remarkable development skills. Tell us about the young kids he recruited and development since when he started. Go on brainiac share with thee your humble wisdom :thumbsup:

2 time assistant midfield premiership coach at Hawks.
One thing we had at Carlton was a midfield that could extract the ball. Once regarded as an A grade midfield before Murphy and Carrots got crunched. How things have changed.
The head coach doesn't do the development. He employs assistant coaches to assist with that aspect.
Stupid argument.


That is right Goltz. Ratts is an assistant in a specialist midfield role. -miles away from the vision, management and motivational skills required from a head coach. He is doing the apprentiship he needed to do pre 2007.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Perhaps not quite the right thread but ......

Happy 715th Mick
Congratulations :clap:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Logic is needed in understanding footy BV :thumbsup:

Look its good I realize your not a MM fan, personally I would take clarko the coach and maybe Ross Lyon, apart from which coach is going to make a difference to this playing list?? There are other good coaches but this guy MM has been in the trenches for over 30 years. Look one was pagan lost it because his game plan was so one dimensional coupled with his lack of playing resources, Mick has always kept up with the times and adapted and trailblazed new ideas and gameplans.

He's not perfect, But he's a legend if the game, he has the runs on the board and given the opportunity he will turn this club around, on field wise. The board is what concerns me we need to be a profitable and well run club and business moving forward.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Michael Jezz wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
No1Blue wrote:
Blue Vain, why don't you tell us more about rats remarkable development skills. Tell us about the young kids he recruited and development since when he started. Go on brainiac share with thee your humble wisdom :thumbsup:

2 time assistant midfield premiership coach at Hawks.
One thing we had at Carlton was a midfield that could extract the ball. Once regarded as an A grade midfield before Murphy and Carrots got crunched. How things have changed.
The head coach doesn't do the development. He employs assistant coaches to assist with that aspect.
Stupid argument.


That is right Goltz. Ratts is an assistant in a specialist midfield role. -miles away from the vision, management and motivational skills required from a head coach. He is doing the apprentiship he needed to do pre 2007.


Ratts was an introvert, he was a gun player but a terrible man manager and sub par coach who relied on his favorited juddy and Fev. He relied on
The sheer brilliance of Judd and murph was fully fit and primed in 2011. Murphy had injuries since and hasnt been the same player, he took a small step forward sat afternoon.

Ratten also treated at least 1 Carlton player very poorly as well, a big deal! Found this out recently. Don't think the players liked Ratts much in the end. It's sad in a way because he was pure Carlton and a bull in the midfield, but didn't have the tools to be a succesful coach, well at Carlton.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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No1Blue wrote:
Logic is needed in understanding footy BV :thumbsup:

Look its good I realize your not a MM fan, personally I would take clarko the coach and maybe Ross Lyon, apart from which coach is going to make a difference to this playing list?? There are other good coaches but this guy MM has been in the trenches for over 30 years. Look one was pagan lost it because his game plan was so one dimensional coupled with his lack of playing resources, Mick has always kept up with the times and adapted and trailblazed new ideas and gameplans.

He's not perfect, But he's a legend if the game, he has the runs on the board and given the opportunity he will turn this club around, on field wise. The board is what concerns me we need to be a profitable and well run club and business moving forward.

I don't know if the playing list is any good. Simply because they aren't being coached to their potential. When you have a coach that implements a gameplan and has the players playing for him for 4 qtrs please get back to me. No playing list looks good with no game plan and system in place. You could put some of our kids in to the hawks team and they would look a lot better under a solid GP.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:44 pm 
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Ratten was part of a dysfunctional football dept. It's wrong to blame him.

I'm backing Mick was a good coach in his day. But he finished off the good work of a very highly resourced football dept. at Collingwood who had a very good recruiting network and a functional setup. A good CEO, a good Football Manager and a good head recruiter.

If we are rebuilding, it wouldn't make sense to have a coach like Malthouse. I think the main man now at Carlton is the list manager.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:06 am 
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Craig Bradley
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http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/afl-news/ ... mwvyh.html

Caro is asking a simple question. Do Carlton have the guts to back Mick ?

Personally, I hope the answer is yes !

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:37 am 
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Ken Hunter
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The love in between malthouse and McGuire indicates to me that Malthouse has already organised a new job for next year.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:38 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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John James wrote:
Ratten was part of a dysfunctional football dept. It's wrong to blame him.

I'm backing Mick was a good coach in his day. But he finished off the good work of a very highly resourced football dept. at Collingwood who had a very good recruiting network and a functional setup. A good CEO, a good Football Manager and a good head recruiter.

If we are rebuilding, it wouldn't make sense to have a coach like Malthouse. I think the main man now at Carlton is the list manager.


Perhaps part of the problem for Ratts.
I heard some players didn't think he was that great as a coach.
Great midfield coach and good attacking game plan.
Maybe it was the players but defensively not astute.
I don't know for sure.

MM has rebuilt before.
Doesn't seem he will be the coach next year.
I think it all depends if we make finals or not. :sly:

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