Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Tue Jun 24, 2025 7:10 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6401 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248 ... 321  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:37 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
[quote="jimmae"]What aging list? We're 7th on average...

Let's all pluck things from the sky and see how it reads according to our own bias...[/quote]
I was referring to our top players aging and very close to retirement. In 4 yrs, these players will be reitred or pushing 30+. Juddy, jamm, simmo, carrots, daisy, rowe, murphy, gibbs?. I dont care about young / unproven list players. Sure we have a young list, we delisted or traded players and brought in youngsters


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:42 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
yeah jimmae is basically saying we have a galaxy of young players who will hold us in good stead when the older core group players disappear

hes big on meaningless statistics...

like "seventh oldest"

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:42 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
GWS wrote:
jimmae wrote:
What aging list? We're 7th on average...

Let's all pluck things from the sky and see how it reads according to our own bias...


Jimmae you seem to be unapologetically pro Malthouse.

I was okay with the appointment just as I was with Ratten and Pagan and Brittain. Coaches need time to work out what it is that they're doing at a new club and setting up change takes time. I've been happy to give Mick that time.

But it's not an open ended invitation to @#$%&! around and achieve nothing.

I've watched you post consistently pro Malthouse stuff for a while now whilst our team has clearly got worse.

I've seen positives but I'm seeing an increasing number of negatives and at the moment I'm seeing a coach flailing around trying to secure his fortress which is unedifying for a 50 game coach but truly sad for one who's coached over 700 games.

Could you outline what it is you think Malthouse is trying to do, has achieved, is close to achieving and will achieve so I might have a hope of seeing what it is that you're seeing but I'm missing?

Cheers,

GWS

Yeah jimmae. Pluck some mick malthouse achievements out please. and dont mention recruiting. Not part of his scope.

Onfield achievements?
Offield achievements?

Please pluck out the long list of achievements


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:44 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
GWS wrote:
jimmae wrote:
What aging list? We're 7th on average...

Let's all pluck things from the sky and see how it reads according to our own bias...


Jimmae you seem to be unapologetically pro Malthouse.

I was okay with the appointment just as I was with Ratten and Pagan and Brittain. Coaches need time to work out what it is that they're doing at a new club and setting up change takes time. I've been happy to give Mick that time.

But it's not an open ended invitation to @#$%&! around and achieve nothing.

I've watched you post consistently pro Malthouse stuff for a while now whilst our team has clearly got worse.

I've seen positives but I'm seeing an increasing number of negatives and at the moment I'm seeing a coach flailing around trying to secure his fortress which is unedifying for a 50 game coach but truly sad for one who's coached over 700 games.

Could you outline what it is you think Malthouse is trying to do, has achieved, is close to achieving and will achieve so I might have a hope of seeing what it is that you're seeing but I'm missing?

Cheers,

GWS

...

I'm not an MM supporter; I'm a Carlton supporter. I'm seeing negatives too, but I'm seeing a whirlwind of media bullshit around every action because they think there's a vulnerability that they can make a story out of. That's the sad truth of the AFL media in 2015: scrutiny is one thing, but actively pushing the agenda of several parties for column inches is ridiculous.

Do they realise they're the puppets in this drama?

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the way we structure defensively (i.e. man on man in midfield), I'm not a fan of how often we go down the wings and do so without much effort towards creating space for each other, and I'm not a fan of how much effort it seemingly requires for us to generate a mark inside 50.

What I am a fan of is the players who have been @#$%&! around on company time are running out of options when it comes to protesting anything that doesn't expressly suit them, that we're changing the playing style of the list to suit a pacier game, and the agreement in place at the match-committee level that players truly earn their spot in the team by working hard on the field, with an eye to the structure in place.

You can have the best kick around, the fastest speed in the AFL, jump the highest, pluck it clean off the deck, but at the end of the day if you don't nail those skills perfectly every time - and you never will - you need to have a plan in place that gives your team mates a rough idea of what is going to happen so they can anticipate and adapt.

For over a decade, we've been @#$%&! that up, and that's what I think Mick is painstakingly trying to improve upon. He's stripped the tactics right down to basics and he's moved on players who don't acknowledge that their decision making is - without cause - selfish under pressure, and it's no longer good for either party that they remain. There's been some other losses along the way (Betts & Waite), but on the whole we're OK for such a departure from the status quo.

What I want to see from here on out this year, is us building upon this into a deeper game plan. For a professional outfit that has the right resources, including line coaches, equipment and other forms of man power, that's something you do in the pre-season. I think the wheel is finally turning within the playing group, and once guys like Buckley, Boekhorst, Whiley, DVR, Cripps and Smith start making solid contributions within the team we'll see the blueprint for the future.

Hopefully this weekend we see Buckley, Boekhorst, Whiley and Cripps on the bench, and the excitement and skill that will come with that.

Come the off-season, we'll need to invest time and resources into ensuring we're closer to, or at the forefront when it comes to all facets of sports science, nutrition and medicine and sports data analytics. I think inserting some skilled people at board level is a great way to start there, and then leveraging their resources to better train people who are interested in such work.

In terms of personnel I see no harm in a review of the football department: McKay would need a once over but it's easy to see he has a variety of valuable skills and the mindset that drove him to acquire them all. You don't get to be a vet by being a fumbling idiot from a scientific or medical point of view; you just weren't studying the human body. You don't get to be involved with AFL rules and regs without picking up quite a bit of knowledge along the way, as well as crafting personal relationships for the future.

In addition, we need to get some real tactical minds involved in midfield and forward coaching, and hopefully within that someone who can better address the individual coaching techniques for zone defending. It's the now and it's the future and we do it very poorly from a player perspective. They don't read and react in a manner befitting such a structure, and it's not getting enough attention.

I don't think Wiley, Barker, Green, Capuano or Webster help with that. Osborne is the only coach on our staff with playing experience in such a system in a midfield or defence role, and Malthouse is the only guy with coaching experience in it. Laidley has a lot to offer in many areas and I think he's sharp enough to adapt to such a change.

Finally, we of course need to continue turning over the playing list, and I've made my thoughts on that very clear currently and in the past in numerous threads. Thankfully, with some time spent investigating and re-purposing the methodologies of Sabermetrics, it might start becoming a whole lot easier for us to acquire the talent we seek.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:59 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
Goltzenberg wrote:
jimmae wrote:
What aging list? We're 7th on average...

Let's all pluck things from the sky and see how it reads according to our own bias...

I was referring to our top players aging and very close to retirement. In 4 yrs, these players will be reitred or pushing 30+. Juddy, jamm, simmo, carrots, daisy, rowe, murphy, gibbs?. I dont care about young / unproven list players. Sure we have a young list, we delisted or traded players and brought in youngsters

You cannot strip off that group of experience any more than has already been done.

I don't see Rowe in the same bracket as the rest of the names you've mentioned but he's not young either; he'd have about 18 months shelf life left, and he's indicative of a previous regime. White, Curnow and Armfield would be others.

A statistical analysis of the list that I'd be most comfortable with would involve a lot more data than I have access to. Champion Data and Prowess Stats would have a fair bit of it, but I might find myself asking them to bring in new statistical categories on top of that. Small descriptive nuances here and there to give a clearer picture of skill execution.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:20 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21574
Location: North of the border
The wife thing is his get out of jail free card.
He can go away gracefully using family as an excuse to retire with out being pushed

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:24 pm 
Offline
Collingwood Supporter

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:43 pm
Posts: 132
It's got embarrassing now with Mick. He is our Malcom Blight at St. Kilda.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:41 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 8631
Wouldn't surprise me if he put the cue in the rack after the filth game

_________________
Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:49 pm 
Offline
Collingwood Supporter

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:43 pm
Posts: 132
Doubt he has the good grace to do that. My read is he knows the board won't re-sign him and he will use the entire season to agitate the board even more.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:22 pm 
Offline
Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 79
Location: inner melbourne
For MM to survive there will need to be changes to the coaching staff.
we can't roll onto 2016 with same group of coaches .

The club needs to have the balls to independently review all aspects of the club starting from the TOP.

………….Trigg is out of line for saying what he did …….. Swan no 2 … really disappointed .
If MM contract is not renewed the board should go ………….
MM did not fail this football club …… The Board Has

Battler


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:37 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
jimmae wrote:
Goltzenberg wrote:
jimmae wrote:
What aging list? We're 7th on average...

Let's all pluck things from the sky and see how it reads according to our own bias...

I was referring to our top players aging and very close to retirement. In 4 yrs, these players will be reitred or pushing 30+. Juddy, jamm, simmo, carrots, daisy, rowe, murphy, gibbs?. I dont care about young / unproven list players. Sure we have a young list, we delisted or traded players and brought in youngsters

You cannot strip off that group of experience any more than has already been done.

I don't see Rowe in the same bracket as the rest of the names you've mentioned but he's not young either; he'd have about 18 months shelf life left, and he's indicative of a previous regime. White, Curnow and Armfield would be others.

A statistical analysis of the list that I'd be most comfortable with would involve a lot more data than I have access to. Champion Data and Prowess Stats would have a fair bit of it, but I might find myself asking them to bring in new statistical categories on top of that. Small descriptive nuances here and there to give a clearer picture of skill execution.

i agree with a lot of your points in the other post. Stripping back to the basics isnt one of them. I used to hear that in under 13s. l still don't know why you think he is the person to lead this club. I dont think he has achieved one thing and on current form l dont see it happening Anytime soon. On his cv he would struggle to put one achievement on it at cfc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:37 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
How does Trigg saying what he said make him "Swan 2" out of interest?

_________________
dane's trolling again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:42 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 1531
Location: Melbourne
battlerblue wrote:
For MM to survive there will need to be changes to the coaching staff.
we can't roll onto 2016 with same group of coaches .

The club needs to have the balls to independently review all aspects of the club starting from the TOP.

………….Trigg is out of line for saying what he did …….. Swan no 2 … really disappointed .
If MM contract is not renewed the board should go ………….
MM did not fail this football club …… The Board Has

Battler

How has the board got anything to do with what the players are currently dishing out now? Is the board recruiting players now? Is board facilitating training sessions? Is the board doing pre and have time speeches?

But i do get your point if your blaming the board for hiring mm in the first place. They failed him there


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:46 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
Goltzenberg wrote:
i agree with a lot of your points in the other post. Stripping back to the basics isnt one of them. I used to hear that in under 13s. l still don't know why you think he is the person to lead this club. I dont think he has achieved one thing and on current form l dont see it happening Anytime soon. On his cv he would struggle to put one achievement on it at cfc.

Basics in terms of midfield defensive structure, which is having a flow-on effect all over the field.

I'm interested to know how it's being addressed.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:47 pm 
Offline
Collingwood Supporter

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:43 pm
Posts: 132
The club pays Mick say $1 million per year?

You can't justify paying a coach that amount per year when you are rebuilding.

In days past, you could justify this but there is now a cap on football department spending.

The club would be better served hiring a proven assistant at $600 k and using the $400 k saving on a development coach, whilst the club rebuilds.

Malthouse is less successful than Pagan at Carlton. If Mick is retained, there will be a further drop off in membership. He has divided the Carlton faithful like no other coach because we are unsure if his heart is in it for the right reasons.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:44 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 2651
with the majority of the year left I think he played the wife card too soon

he's running out of family members

a little bit longer and he will need to use extended family and friends or has that been done I can’t keep up with the bold and the micky any more


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:45 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
jimmae wrote:
:lol:

This is as bruising as media scrutiny gets outside of politics. They know his wife has had a health scare but they are still going in for the kill.


You seriously think the media should go easy on him because his wife has had a "health scare"? :grin:
He needs to harden up, stop whinging and get on with coaching.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:15 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Posts: 34533
Location: The Brown Wedge
bluechucky wrote:
This whole thing is a balls up.

Carlton were right to wait until the latter part of the year, but announcing three games in that we are going to rebuild is just stupid. It might be necessary but there was no need to say anything just yet.

Add triggs inflammatory comments about mick being old and asking if he has the energy to the list of stupid things to say.

On the flip side mick bringing the topic up every time, like hes doing everyone else a service by trying to get re-signed and then throwing his families despair into the mix is equally dumb.

@#$%&! this club has turned into dog shit.


Sure has. We're re-building like everyone is re-building. The club said it to try to put an end to BS like this thread where the media and 'supporters' get whipped into a frenzy because we haven't won a game after 2 rounds.

Who the @#$%&! isn't 're-building'?

This is the sort of crap that turns me off footy. As if the drug cheating cock suckers weren't enough, now we have this going on with us shitting in our own nest. The scum supporters will be having a field day.

When we went to the well we got Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuz. When Hawthorn went they got Hodge, Buddy and Roughead. That's how it goes.

Mick is two years into a 3 year deal. Let him coach the @#$%&! boys he's recruited in two drafts. We have some very good young men that need time. We have some old blokes who need to go, and we have some we need to trade.

It's football FFS.

_________________
end of message


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:16 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Posts: 34533
Location: The Brown Wedge
P.S If I hear or read someone on radio, the media or on TC scream 'play the kids!!' one more time I'll @#$%&! well spew up.

_________________
end of message


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:24 am 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
@#$%&! the wife card, fix the bloody game plan.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6401 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248 ... 321  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group