OK. I'll buy that.

I think you're referring to Hodge Boak and Selwood types?
I think there's a greater spread of leaders but you can see it in those guys eyes they mean business.

I can think of the Carey influence on a whole group.

Diesel had a lot of influence....he came to carlton for a flag and was single minded on that. I think that's what we need, but I can see we don't have runners to break lines and evade chasers and have too many plodders.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think for the sake of the sanity of some we need to drum up who won't be on the list come 2017:

Carrazzo
Ellard
Johnson (r)
Walsh (r)
Warnock
Wood (r)
Holman
Tutt
Dick
Judd
Giles

Strong possibility:
White
Russell (r)
Armfield
Whiley
Simpson

The ones marked in yellow are not in the bottom-tier of the list, at the very least based on their earnings (Warnock). Those are the key replacements long term. Some are obviously tougher than others, but that's averaging out at 7 changes for the next 2 years; I think it will be 8-10 this year, but 3 of those will be rookies and we're due for 2 rookie elevations, so it's hardly a blood letting.

Factor in a likely 2 F/S picks in the ND, and you're looking at 3-5 live picks at the next draft before trades/free agents. With the incoming F/S system, we will have a points total that we will need meet with the draft choices of our choosing. So for example, we may choose to sacrifice our first round draft pick to pay for the 2 (or 3) F/S, or we may choose to use our 2nd & 4th to pay the total.

I think we will do our best to maintain our first rounder sans player trades, which means if we wish to acquire talent already in the system, we will need to look at free agency (and there are plenty of good options each year, it's not a scrap heap) and in order to trade we will need to target cap squeezes and players who have basically walked from their clubs.

We're actually going to have a very good year at the draft no matter where we finish on the ladder IMO, because almost everything we will be most interested in is current a buyer's market: ruckman, attacking smalls. Obviously we'd like a prime midfielder, and Dangerfield is the obvious name, but that's a transactional class of itself and we'd need to convince about the club's direction versus a Geelong. Seems monumental right now but if we turn our form around a bit and Geelong continue south, it might be a lot easier than expected.

Can I get confirmation on the contract situation of the other following potential free agents?

Andy Otten
Bellchambers
Pears
Suckling
Rance
Jarrad Grant

EDIT: None of them have signed for their clubs. That's a great short list of free agents to pick from. I'm sure 2 or 3 will sign through the year, but if we don't get Dangerfield we can entertain at least 2 names on that list. Worth pursuing under our circumstances.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Judd
Kreuzer
Warnock
Watson
Rowe(?)
Giles
Holman
Armfield
Graham (?)
Carrazzo
Ellard
Johnson (r)

That wasn't too hard. Pity it leaves us with @#$%&! all room to do anything at the trade table.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Sorry you're right I didn't think of Giles! Adding him in.

Rowe I think will be running around in 2017, likely as backup, but then will move on.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

My assessment on last nights team

Docherty-one of a best player
Jamo-well beaten again he is finished
Rowe-not afl standard
Tuohy-about as good he will get just holding he's spot
Yarran-should be played wing or forward but goes missing
Everitt- tries hard just an average player
Curnow-slow and poor skills that says it all
Carrazzo-has a crack but is finished
Ellard- would not make any other teams list dud
Gibbs- can play but is soft
Menzel-will be a very good player in the coming years but got
a funny feeling will leave when contract is up
Bell-only a plodder
Casboult- our best forward pity he can't kick
Hendo- overrated as a forward should be played back
Jones-mm new love child an absolute dud waste of a draft pick ,money
and 3years
Judd-freak but is cooked can only carry a team for so long
Wood- should not wear the navy blue again hopeless
Murphy -very good player but the captains role is hurting he's game
should not be captain
White-no good but tries
Simo-you can rely on this bloke give 100% every week but is coming
to the end
Tutt-just another dud offers the side nothing at all
Smith-mite be alright in a few years
MM-game plan would work if we were playing in the 90 to me he is
all for him self should not be coaching next year
just one from left field if Cripps plays well for the rest of the season
and leads from the front make him captain like the kangas did with
Carey build a team with him in charge

Typical bullshit abuse from you synbad.

You clearly have a comprehension problem.

This is the list management thread so that is all i commented on.

Direction at the club is shit. But since this is not a directors thread, i did not mention it directly.

You pretend you have all the answers but if you spin the amount of bullshit you do you are bound to get things right once in a while.

The club needs to be burnt to the ground and rebuilt.

_________________
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

Giles was one of the best defenders of his draft.

Very smooth mover, great hands and a nice kick.

It's a shame to see him on everyone's 'finished' list due to injury.

He would've been handy last night.

_________________
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

It's not
Basically you're not appreciating my unsuccessfulness so you're abusing me.
Everything goes back to the people at the top..
That's just how it is..
To not comprehend that is a problem systematic to this club

Beat me with your anger, frustration and words.. I don't mind.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

He's a chance to be re-rookied if his foot isn't cooked at the end of the season, but 2 years, barely any VFL games.

It's hard to make a case when we're in transition.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

It's hard to know what to think in general.

I love being a Blues supporter but it's such a hollow existence these days.

_________________
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

Giles still has that potential....he has just spent 2 years injured, there are plenty I'd cut before him, who was an athletic tall defender with dash and footskills.

He's the exact type we should persist with.

He didn't come to mind immediately for me, so I'm 100% for his retention, it's just hard to justify on the primary list at the moment.

How he performs when he returns in the second half of the season will be very telling.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Hopefully we can get a look at him, and he can start his development. Hopefully he has also built up his upper body in the weight room whilst his foot has been stuffed

Can you put senior players straight on to the rookie list? Is that what we did with Scotland?

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I believe you can pre-list, but others have the option of taking them. The caveat is that you need to accept their contract demands so you can price them out.

I doubt anyone will take him if we go through with that, as they'd get slammed at the next trade week by most clubs.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

List Management = The List is beyond Management...

Total Clean up has to occur.... We need to go backwards some 2-3 years and get some much needed Wooden Spoons before we can even think about re-building...

We have totally Burnt last year's draft and took a gamble on some quick Fixes that have already come back and hit us in the face and its not even Rd3 yet....


The Biggest Clean up that has to occur is that of the Coachin Panels. All the Assistant Coaches must be Sacked along with the Coach....

You can't build anything by completely ripping up the foundation over and over.

We're not rotten at that level, we're not rotten at any level. We just don't know how to mend ourselves at the moment.

That's part self-belief, part work ethic, part outside perspective. Work to be done for sure, but we can work with a lot of what we have existing.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

It must be nice where you live, Jimmae.

_________________
Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

No pit on this Earth is bottomless, no matter how deep it may seem.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

We have traded for players to impress not for long term planning or success

The top people at Carlton traded and abused our list to save their own back sides , not because they want the club to be successful .

Now we the supporters have nothing to look forward to

The top people at the club have to be sorted through and the ones exposed thrown out before anything will change

Makes me sick in the stomach

_________________
A macfart a day helps you work rest and play