Malthouse contract discussion: EXTENSION DENIED!

mikeychook · **Joined:** Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:49 pm **Posts:** 1508

I like Mick.

I think he's better than Ratten.

jimmae · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:34 am

BV, he inherited every player I mentioned, and what's more he cannot be in charge of their every action, whether they be guilty or innocent of assault charges.

Collingwood had its success in part due to recruitment of questionable characters; Hawthorn also, or have we all magically forgotten Buddy's early years?? One puts up with it, both try to sweep it under the rug. Sydney doesn't have the same level of media coverage and also had Jude Bolton and Paul Roos at the very top kicking heads and taking names.

How long will their culture last with a cashed-up Buddy at the Cross if they're not top 4 material?

Are you forgetting the drug taking culture that's now seeping into the headlines a little more every year? Those are AFL wide problems and relate to the personalities and spare income in football. The club is like every other on that front, scooping shit and sea water out of the boat as it currently sinks into the ocean.

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:35 am

No1Blue wrote:

One of the most balanced? Don't know about recently. Of course we haven't had a lit to cheer about but yes I refer to his ramblings about Mick and the non issue which is his media profile. Parko was the same with the media if you recall and also had a couple of bad years with the blues while regenerating the list.. This isn't anything personal I'm sure bv is a good bloke but IMO lacking an open mind of late at least IMO. MM isn't perfect, but I'd prefer a coach to has the guts to back in his way, a coach that has a history of rebuilding teams and from rd 12 last year I think we can see signs of development and improvement in the club. I'm talking about the bitterness on this forum these days, I think the club as a whole has a lot to answer for in the sense that the supporters myself included have been disenchanted with the direction of the club but IMO Mick should be judged based on the now. How has our recruiting been the last 2 years? Are the club making in roads regarding fan engagement? Does Mick have the backing of the players? Where have collingwood gone since Mick left? If you wanna talk about ridiculous media coverage it's the soft reporting of Nathan Buckley who completely [REDACTED] up their premiership window, not that I'm complaining. :wink:

Let's see how Mick and the blues go this year if we have a shithouse year maybe then I'll eat my hat! Just saying the coach isn't perfect let's give some credit where it's due aswell though.

Any luck finding BV's calls for quick fixes?

Btw, if you're still looking for something positive, as you reckon its been a while.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34588&start=28

Two days is a long time in football :thumbsup:

No1Blue · **Joined:** Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 2712

Haha sure is that a reflection of other posts of late? You know my previous posts before had more of a point to them I guess I've just been seeing so much bitterness on here from a lot of people, understandable in a sense but lacking balance in regards to recent turn of events, recruiting, development etc..

It's the first time (since mid last year) that the senior playing have even faced the club has had culture and leadership issues. To me that's a good sign and heartening to hear and see that the players are hungry and raiding their standards. Of course we want to see actions on the fields, I think were starting to see that , all I care about is that the players are united, having a crack and putting in 100% each week.

We need stability at the club and it would be shot if we didn't make finals but we all know how tough the competition is ATM. I expect us to finish 8-10 anything above that would be a bonus. We pushed top 4 teams freo and Geelong to less than a goal on 3 occasions last year, I don't think all is doom and gloom. the players seem a lot happier, Judd has a spring in his step. History it's taken a couple of years for Mick to build the teams the way he wants for sustained success or competitiveness if you like. Pies didn't make the finals his first 2 years then made 8 of the next 10 finals campaigns.

Theyre the issues I'm

No1Blue · **Joined:** Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 2712

They're the main points I was trying to make, we need to forget about nonsense like was Mick nice at his press conference when faced with stupid questions. :thumbsup:

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

jimmae wrote:

BV, he inherited every player I mentioned, and what's more he cannot be in charge of their every action, whether they be guilty or innocent of assault charges.

Great point Jim. What we need is for the players to develop individual leadership and take responsibility for their own actions.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were organisations that specialised in that? :grin:

jimmae · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:50 pm

They came, they saw, it didn't work out. It happens.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

Too hard for you hey Jim?
You don't know what they do, how long they did it for or why they left so it's easier to just dismiss it and say it didnt work.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

No1Blue wrote:

Blue vain your ramblings are purely emotional and lack logic and you clearly have invested in an agenda against Mick based on his media profile.. We know because thats all you could talk about last year. There is no talk about the fact that the players love mick, Ratts tried but was not up to the task, he took us as far as he could. Mick has full backing of his players. Our recruiting and trades jaksch, cripps, menzel, docherty, everitt all look like they'll be really valuable players for years to come, Thomas star quality will shine through this year .. IMO Mick is doing the best he can to get our house in order culturally, our leadership and our playing stocks. Blue vain I know you want the quick fix and premiership yesterday but these things take planning, the right ingredients and the right timing, of course top end talent and strong leadership most importantly. We royally [REDACTED] this up in the past through our recruiting development and poor leadership, all 3 of which still need work but were making inroads even if the results in win terms haven't come instantly, in terms of leadership, menzel, docherty, cripps as an example i believe will be future leaders of the club. If you recall we also lost around 7 games last year by 12 pts or less all with a substandard list. One that is improving though IMO. What most supporters forget is this is an 18 team competition, much stronger than 5 years ago, finals spots aren't handed on a silver platter anymore. Let's see how we go this year I think we might surprise some people... BV would be good to hear you say something positive or constructive for a change, it's been a while. Bless.

What nonsense. I'm the last person wanting a quick fix. But hey, it's easier to label people when you don't have the capacity to debate the points on their merit.
When I was critical of Pagans training methods I was labelled a Pagan hater. When I said Lance Whitnall was lazy I was a Whitnall hater. Now when I question the clubs unwillingness to stand up to Malthouse and implement a program that develops leadership, I'm a Malthouse hater. :lol:

Some of the logic here belongs in primary school.

jimmae · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:00 pm

Blue Vain wrote:

Too hard for you hey Jim?
You don't know what they do, how long they did it for or why they left so it's easier to just dismiss it and say it didnt work.

I've got a pretty good idea of what they did, how long they did it for and I'm guessing they didn't get invited back purely because of Mick.

If he has that much control over the organisation then we're a shambles and a strong-willed coach is the least of our problems.

verbs · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:03 pm

We're a cheery bunch around here.

padre · **Joined:** Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm **Posts:** 934

Blue Vain wrote:

jimmae wrote:

BV, he inherited every player I mentioned, and what's more he cannot be in charge of their every action, whether they be guilty or innocent of assault charges.

Great point Jim. What we need is for the players to develop individual leadership and take responsibility for their own actions.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were organisations that specialised in that? :grin:

Thats it? Not rocket surgery! Pretty basic really isnt it. Perhaps you could hang up your shingle- make a few bucks!

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

Nah. I don't have the skills. In fact, I have only a small grasp of what they actually do.
One thing though, I've made the effort to find out before ignorantly dismissing them. I've listened to people who have worked with them and had success with them.
You should expand your horizons and give it a try.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

jimmae wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Too hard for you hey Jim?
You don't know what they do, how long they did it for or why they left so it's easier to just dismiss it and say it didnt work.

I've got a pretty good idea of what they did, how long they did it for and I'm guessing they didn't get invited back purely because of Mick.

If he has that much control over the organisation then we're a shambles and a strong-willed coach is the least of our problems.

And that's the point Jim. Hopefully the current crop have more balls and insight than their predecessors.

No1Blue · **Joined:** Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 2712

BV tell me how do you know Mick and his staff haven't implemented a leadership development plan? Pretty sure it's no secret he's said for quite a while the players need to get out of their shells and show more leadership on and off the field. Isnt the growing leadership within the playing group part of the reason Mitch and jeffy got the boot because the club no longer wants to accept such poor standards?

padre · **Joined:** Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm **Posts:** 934

Blue Vain wrote:

Nah. I don't have the skills. In fact, I have only a small grasp of what they actually do.
One thing though, I've made the effort to find out before ignorantly dismissing them. I've listened to people who have worked with them and had success with them.
You should expand your horizons and give it a try.

Once again i havent dismissed them. That is your words. Read what I have written. I have a balanced view of what they can do. Your undeniable bias towards them is what is ignorant

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

No1Blue wrote:

BV tell me how do you know Mick and his staff haven't implemented a leadership development plan?

Because I do my research.
Read the clubs own media release this year of their key drivers.

Quote:

Driver No.2

Setting the benchmark in talent and development of our people

*Create a Carlton specific people and leadership program

Driver No.4
Elite football management and football programs.

*Implement a Carlton development and wellbeing model.
*Create a player and coach driven set of values

Do you realise how far we are behind with this stuff? I don't blame Malthouse. I blame the previous executive and CEO for allowing him to take total control of whatever he wanted. Someone should have had the balls to say "sorry mate but we make the decisions on that stuff, you coach the team"

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18022

padre wrote:

Once again i havent dismissed them. That is your words. Read what I have written. I have a balanced view of what they can do. Your undeniable bias towards them is what is ignorant

Padre wrote:

I believe that all management consultant organisations are tarred with the same brush

Balanced view? :lol:

That's not balance. It's closed minded ignorance.

As for your ridiculous ascertion that I am biased to Leading Teams, that's as uninformed as the rest of your posts in this thread. I couldn't care which organisation we get in. But I do believe most areas of people management are best handled by those who have the best results and the runs on the board.
Just expecting the players to learn it themselves is foolish. Whether the club get's Leading Teams or any other organisation is irrelevant to me. The key is to do their homework and get the best people. Even their own key drivers outlined this year demonstrate the fact they realise they are deficient.
Even they can see it and you can't. Go figure.

jimmae · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:35 pm

The right philosophy should be to engage the senior coach and work in consultation with him, but reserve the right to make the final call.

"You're accountable for the squad, we're accountable for the club."

No1Blue · **Joined:** Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:29 pm **Posts:** 2712

Yes I agree that we need balance and leadership at the very top has been weak, as much as I love sticks he was a lane duck president. The policies the club have outlined are generally Just standard PR to give the impression the leadership team at the very top are strong leaders and united. We have been perceived as a weak team in culture and leadership for a long time. However as far as the on field, players and coaches this had been talked about for some time. What I'm saying is that unless you know the inside info yourself, know the directors etc all talk that Mick hasn't developed a leadership development within the team is hearsay. The man has 30 years experience in the game and knows a thing or 2 about leadership IMO anyway, I'm not convinced about laguidice and co yet time will tell there at least they're not in denial now though.. Clearly were behind on leadership when you look at the club holistically, players and coaches however IMO have shown signs of growth. With the mediocre leadership of sticks at the helm, one could argue it's been up someone of Micks rlecperience to be more hands on in that regard. Hopefully lagudice trigg can help get things right at the board level.

Malthouse contract discussion: EXTENSION DENIED!

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