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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:07 am 
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Bruce Doull
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yes... so its up to the board to go find the anti virus to save the others...

so how will they go about doing this???...

why did it take so long to come up with the anti virus??

and yes im "beyond saving".. but theyre replacing me arent they???

an anti virus... is this he plan?? to maintain what the have and hope nobody dies.. or runs into financial hardship or moves ???

no plan to grow???

i think the 'person' that needs help is you and them...

for neither you or them understands whats happening.....

"antii loyalty genetics" GTFOH!!!!

emotional blackmail ??? pffffft ... go find a real plan!!!


flower idiots!!!

actually youre the embodiment of that whole ridiculousness thats killing the club

thanks for making it obvious to those that couldnt see it... youve put a 'face' to the mentality in your arguments

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:11 am 
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Bruce Doull
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by the way.....

just let me hear that again.... "saved" from what??

i cant be saved... from giving my money over without qustioning???

are you for real???

do you even know what youre implying???

is this jonestown????

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:12 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Manchego Cheese wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Manchego Cheese wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Makes sense as to why members are dropping off.

Doesn't as to why they failed to grow the brand as most other Victorian clubs did from 2009-2011.


Hawthorn have had a bit of a golden era during this period. I wouldn't hold my breath, though, for look what happened just 5 years after they won a flag (after competing in 8 of 9 Grand Finals)... they had basically folded. That's how quickly their fans jump off.

Geelong, too, have enjoyed a golden era (their membership is smaller than ours despite their best ever period).

Essendon**** have manipulated this tired, sorry saga into an us against them campaign, playing the victim to retain support. We did this when caught red handed in 2002, recording a record membership number by saying the big bad AFL had bullied us. No one likes City Hall, do they?

It's well known that Richmond give away memberships. As in actually give them away. On a scale that dwarves every other club.

Collingwood we're a good side and their fans are, to a fault, loyal as a dog.

Our Membership would've been growing during that period, because we were an improving side playing finals. This culminated in 2011, our best season in 10 years. Then performances on field dipped and apathy drifted in. 'My loyalty and support has been betrayed, we're shit again!' cried the Carlton support. 'I knew it! I knew we were no good!' they said after the Saints beat us on a Monday night in 2012.


We recorded a record membership after turfing out a dipshit board with its head up arse and supporters felt a true sense of ownership.

WHA...!?!?


So the fine, draft pick penalties and the like had nothing to do with fans collectively getting behind the club?

Yeah, that administration had to go, no doubt about it. But they were doing the same thing just the year before, in 2001. And 2000. And 1999. But fans didn't care because... yep, you know what we were doing. When the crap hit the fan they mobilised against the board; although, its fair to say the circumstances were fairly extraordinary. No one would stay in office after that.


The fans rallied to help rebuild the club with a sense of ownership and responsibility... without pokies ... without oligarchs....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:13 am 
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Laurie Kerr
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Synbad wrote:
yes... so its up to the board to go find the anti virus to save the others...

so how will they go about doing this???...

why did it take so long to come up with the anti virus??

and yes im "beyond saving".. but theyre replacing me arent they???

an anti virus... is this he plan?? to maintain what the have and hope nobody dies.. or runs into financial hardship or moves ???

no plan to grow???

i think the 'person' that needs help is you and them...

for neither you or them understands whats happening.....

"antii loyalty genetics" GTFOH!!!!

emotional blackmail ??? pffffft ... go find a real plan!!!


flower idiots!!!

actually youre the embodiment of that whole ridiculousness thats killing the club

thanks for making it obvious to those that couldnt see it... youve put a 'face' to the mentality in your arguments


I'm going to remove myself from this loop of insanity, in which you regurgitate the same nonsense ad infinitum by saying this:

You're right, Synbad. This new executive team is no good. They're just like the rest. There's no hope they will do good in the role. I've no faith they could possibly do a good job. I've no reason to think they've identified things that need to be changed and improved. I'm not prepared to give them time, say, the season proper when engagement and connectivity is at its peak, to show us what they're about.

There. You win. The club is [REDACTED]. No one can save it.

Happy? Yeah, you probably are.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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manchego cheese...

youre not aware of what youre saying... which is exactly what the club is doing....

its so apathetic.. it expects us to hand over money unquestioningly which isnt how the world works...

they have to fight tooth and nail to get money from me...and people like me.

they need to...

theyre not the heart foundation or the anti cancer council...theyre not a kid in guatemala im sponsoring...

its now a product .. they see me as a consumer.

how does it stack up as a product???

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:17 am 
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Bruce Doull
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you sound like you know the 'new executive team'.. nice term

theres a who song i love

"wont get fooled again..."

meet the new boss.. same as the old boss.....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:19 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Rexy wrote:
Manchego Cheese wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Manchego Cheese wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Makes sense as to why members are dropping off.

Doesn't as to why they failed to grow the brand as most other Victorian clubs did from 2009-2011.


Hawthorn have had a bit of a golden era during this period. I wouldn't hold my breath, though, for look what happened just 5 years after they won a flag (after competing in 8 of 9 Grand Finals)... they had basically folded. That's how quickly their fans jump off.

Geelong, too, have enjoyed a golden era (their membership is smaller than ours despite their best ever period).

Essendon***** have manipulated this tired, sorry saga into an us against them campaign, playing the victim to retain support. We did this when caught red handed in 2002, recording a record membership number by saying the big bad AFL had bullied us. No one likes City Hall, do they?

It's well known that Richmond give away memberships. As in actually give them away. On a scale that dwarves every other club.

Collingwood we're a good side and their fans are, to a fault, loyal as a dog.

Our Membership would've been growing during that period, because we were an improving side playing finals. This culminated in 2011, our best season in 10 years. Then performances on field dipped and apathy drifted in. 'My loyalty and support has been betrayed, we're shit again!' cried the Carlton support. 'I knew it! I knew we were no good!' they said after the Saints beat us on a Monday night in 2012.


We recorded a record membership after turfing out a dipshit board with its head up arse and supporters felt a true sense of ownership.

WHA...!?!?


So the fine, draft pick penalties and the like had nothing to do with fans collectively getting behind the club?

Yeah, that administration had to go, no doubt about it. But they were doing the same thing just the year before, in 2001. And 2000. And 1999. But fans didn't care because... yep, you know what we were doing. When the crap hit the fan they mobilised against the board; although, its fair to say the circumstances were fairly extraordinary. No one would stay in office after that.


The fans rallied to help rebuild the club with a sense of ownership and responsibility... without pokies ... without oligarchs....

Initially we blamed Elliott for our first ever spoon...

Then our anger turned towards Dspew, Ron Evans and the AFL

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:20 am 
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Craig Bradley

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kingkerna wrote:
Since when was membership numbers a "cock measuring contest" I couldn't care if we have a small membership base if we are well run and a success on and off the field. At the moment we're behind all round.



That's the sort of thinking that exists within the minds of the Pratts and the Mathisons.
The club will further go backwards until these guys have nothing to do with the club.
Period.

Because of work I can't get to many games but it's not why I aint a member
I am not a member because the board is essentially lazy, inept, and doesn't understand how to run a club successfully in the 21st century.
How can we have persons on the board who advertise their own businesses and who we rely on their money to survive financially.
KK it's a joke
But it's not a joke that other clubs continue to be proactive about their futures because the people on their boards have no ulterior motive to be on a board.
Where is our vision for the future
One area we should be focusing on is looking at finding a foothold overseas KK you need to look way ahead because in 100 years the game will be international. The board are so dumb they wouldn't even look at it
Loduidice is better than Sticks but really not much has changed. The club is stil run by individuals who are in it for their own gain an glory and if your house doesn't have its act together at the top the shit just runs downstream.
That's why I aint a member. The club as a whole stands for nothing

I


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:22 am 
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Laurie Kerr
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Synbad wrote:
manchego cheese...

youre not aware of what youre saying... which is exactly what the club is doing....

its so apathetic.. it expects us to hand over money unquestioningly which isnt how the world works...

they have to fight tooth and nail to get money from me...and people like me.

they need to...

theyre not the heart foundation or the anti cancer council...theyre not a kid in guatemala im sponsoring...

its now a product .. they see me as a consumer.

how does it stack up as a product???


And what is most attractive about what a football club sells to its fans? Winning. Being a part of a winning team. Too many of our supporters take it personally when we don't win. They don't want to be associated with 7 and a half wins a season.

Thats fine, and you're right in saying mismanagement has lead us there. Poor leadership off field, poor recruiting, various other poorly executed or conceived strategies, an ineffective board.

Now, you're the exception because you do care about boards, executives, management etc... but most don't. You care about it enough for the entire Carlton fan base. Most haven't the foggiest who runs what area of the club and, really, what sort of job they're doing. They don't know who's on the board.

What I'm saying is the new executive needs time to prove if they're capable of turning it all around. Is that fair? As far as Sam Lane's article is concerned, the new COO has been in the job a month. We probably need to give him more time than that, especially considering he's inherited responsibilities - however poorly rolled out before his arrival - that were set up last year for this.

Trigg seems to be restructuring the club. This is what you want, no?

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We used to be so good


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:24 am 
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Bruce Doull
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cheese... because you blokes are experts in the field of genetics answer me this

do i need to find a loyalty gene or lose my anti genetic gene...??

serious question for you blokes to ponder...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:27 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Manchego Cheese wrote:
Synbad wrote:
manchego cheese...

youre not aware of what youre saying... which is exactly what the club is doing....

its so apathetic.. it expects us to hand over money unquestioningly which isnt how the world works...

they have to fight tooth and nail to get money from me...and people like me.

they need to...

theyre not the heart foundation or the anti cancer council...theyre not a kid in guatemala im sponsoring...

its now a product .. they see me as a consumer.

how does it stack up as a product???


And what is most attractive about what a football club sells to its fans? Winning. Being a part of a winning team. Too many of our supporters take it personally when we don't win. They don't want to be associated with 7 and a half wins a season.

Thats fine, and you're right in saying mismanagement has lead us there. Poor leadership off field, poor recruiting, various other poorly executed or conceived strategies, an ineffective board.

Now, you're the exception because you do care about boards, executives, management etc... but most don't. You care about it enough for the entire Carlton fan base. Most haven't the foggiest who runs what area of the club and, really, what sort of job they're doing. They don't know who's on the board.

What I'm saying is the new executive needs time to prove if they're capable of turning it all around. Is that fair? As far as Sam Lane's article is concerned, the new COO has been in the job a month. We probably need to give him more time than that, especially considering he's inherited responsibilities - however poorly rolled out before his arrival - that were set up last year for this.

Trigg seems to be restructuring the club. This is what you want, no?

no i want a proper review

we have had many restructures.

sacking and hiring willy nilly with silver bullets isnt the answer
cronyism isnt the answer..

ill give you one reason why were mediocre...

guess what it is..its on the tip of your tongue.. spit it out...!!!.. i know you know...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:28 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Manchego Cheese wrote:

I'm not talking about whether we're well run. I'm talking about fan attitudes and the apathy a lot have towards the Carlton Football Club.

My belief, however, is that you've gotten what you've campaigned for for many a year: near complete change in management. Now, sure, theres the one fissure in your arse that remains: the board, something I trust you'll continue to tell us all about, but for the most part the other pillars you wanted changed have done so.

Sticks is gone. Swann is gone. I've lost track of whether Mick is an issue for you.

New CEO, new COO, new CFO, new president. Yeah, Mark LoGiudice might just be there on mates rates, and that annoys me in so much a guy like Ryan Trainer was compelled to leave (I'd have prefered Trainer because from all reports he's a terrific operator).

As per Sam Lane's article there's an entirely new executive set up. Change is well underway, whether it produces positive results is yet to be seen, but you'd have to be deaf, dumb and stupid to think someone like Trigg has moved in, moved people around, but neglected to change anything else.

What the last week has shown me is a seismic shift in the way the club operates internally, which will surely filter into a change in the external operations of the place. It has to. That might be better than what it was under Swann, it might be worse, but it will be change.

Isn't that what you want?

My perspective is one of lets wait and see. We have to.


This is well said. :clap:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:30 am 
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Bruce Doull
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say it...!!!...

say it!!!...

crap people in power due to culture...

say it...!!!.. its not us ... its you!!!!

look in the mirror.. see the truth.... then and only then can you begin to turn things around...

can you stand up in front of other people who have dragged their club into the ground and admit it??

"were the custodians of the carlton football club...were hopeless adminstrators and we have run our club into the ground... we have a problem!!"

all those richmond stkilda melbourne admin people looking on from over the years...
problem is they wouldnt show up either....


no they cant,...one excuse after the next...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:32 am 
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Laurie Kerr
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Synbad wrote:
Manchego Cheese wrote:
Synbad wrote:
manchego cheese...

youre not aware of what youre saying... which is exactly what the club is doing....

its so apathetic.. it expects us to hand over money unquestioningly which isnt how the world works...

they have to fight tooth and nail to get money from me...and people like me.

they need to...

theyre not the heart foundation or the anti cancer council...theyre not a kid in guatemala im sponsoring...

its now a product .. they see me as a consumer.

how does it stack up as a product???


And what is most attractive about what a football club sells to its fans? Winning. Being a part of a winning team. Too many of our supporters take it personally when we don't win. They don't want to be associated with 7 and a half wins a season.

Thats fine, and you're right in saying mismanagement has lead us there. Poor leadership off field, poor recruiting, various other poorly executed or conceived strategies, an ineffective board.

Now, you're the exception because you do care about boards, executives, management etc... but most don't. You care about it enough for the entire Carlton fan base. Most haven't the foggiest who runs what area of the club and, really, what sort of job they're doing. They don't know who's on the board.

What I'm saying is the new executive needs time to prove if they're capable of turning it all around. Is that fair? As far as Sam Lane's article is concerned, the new COO has been in the job a month. We probably need to give him more time than that, especially considering he's inherited responsibilities - however poorly rolled out before his arrival - that were set up last year for this.

Trigg seems to be restructuring the club. This is what you want, no?

no i want a proper review

we have had many restructures.

sacking and hiring willy nilly with silver bullets isnt the answer
cronyism isnt the answer..

ill give you one reason why were mediocre...

guess what it is..its on the tip of your tongue.. spit it out...!!!.. i know you know...


So we hire someone to do a review. We probably pay through the nose for them to come in, stand around, point, had us a nicely formatted report and tell us what we already know (I've faith Trigg, the COO et al are capable of using their eyes and identifying deficiencies). You're placated. You deactivate your account. You live out your days sated in the knowledge the Carlton Football Club organised an independent review. All is well in the world.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:34 am 
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Bruce Doull
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we could have done the review year ago

geelong did it...

crystalised into flags....

and yes money is a probem..... but maybe if you did invest money.. you might end up making money......

we spent 300k to go to alabama or something.....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:35 am 
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Craig Bradley
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The Cheesy one is correct

Most Carlton fans are used to winning and have NFI about the underlying problems associated with our predicament of the past decade and then some. I know plenty of them... some even family that look at me with a blank stare when we debate club structures and politics. They are in a sense, spoiled brats that want to see wins and wins and more wins regardless of excuses.

How many of our (or any club) supporter base know the size of their board, can actually name a single board member, let alone management structures? 10% ???

Sure fixing the off field will improve the on field but most would never know what it took to get there.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:35 am 
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Bruce Doull
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the club is in a worse position than i thought judging by the new mouthpiece mr cheese.

i mentioned it earlier but my kids get the choice - carlton memberships or theme park memberships , they literally get nothing from a carlton membership (ok they get a crap hat and some stickers) or they can have unlimited access to a fun place for a year. they choose the fun place instantly and they get enjoyment from it.

(I am interstate by the way)

I used to be excited by Carlton, all my kids were signed up as members the day they were born but it didn't take long to get memberships with the wrong details on them, get memberships and one kids one was missing, only one kid gets the birthday card during the year, the renewals don't register but you take my money, we fly to melbourne and go to see advertised training but you close it instead, the people in the shop take no care or interest in helping decking out the family in gear, you spell our name wrong sometimes, i could go on.

These things might seem petty but when i am deciding where to spend my money why would i voluntary give it to an organisation such as the above where i practically get treated like shit? like i am nothing? or even aside from my 'feelings' one that is so poorly run.

Then you took my voting rights away.....

seriously why would i bother? Am i just supposed to donate because i like the team? id rather donate to a charity and help some starving kids.

I can still like the team, i have foxtel and i will watch the games and cheer and get excited when we win but that is not going to get my money back into the club - i will also fly to melbourne often and watch some games. still see no point in handing my money over to such a poorly run organisation that treats me like i am nothing though.

its been promises, promises, promises then bad decision after bad decision after bad decision and now we are being told our apathy and self entitlement is the problem? seriously get @#$%&!

winning is not the answer. (though it would be nice for a change)

membership is a product and the club needs to make people want to spend their money on carlton over other products ....such as theme parks etc-

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:37 am 
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Bruce Doull
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if trigg already knows how to fix the club how come he had one girl answering the phones and how come he got kicked out from the crows.. and how come we have a shortfall in membership???

youre hoping...

just as someone might put his tatts ticketin each week and hope...

you dont know......

what a review would do is put some home truths in that nicely formatted report all in writing.. something you cant hide from.

which is why reports are done....in business govt and whatever...


i take it you think all these operations are wasting time and money with reports???

correct???

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:39 am 
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Bruce Doull
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yeah but you cant win unless youre a good operation well run

who thinks this is a well run club???

lol

cheese youre hoping we will be great but have bozos running the club

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:43 am 
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Craig Bradley
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I think Doc might have raised this a while back, but I think this might prove membership of a club is a dying concept.

Replace it with season tickets as most professional sports do. Club hang onto it just in case we need the $50 from each of you if/when club folds.

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