It can be very easily manipulated, too.

My whole point stands: Carlton fans are spoilt brats who don't like losing. Thats fine, but its also the reason they've stopped "connecting" with the Club.

Yeah, sure, the reason for the losing is poor admin, bad drafting etc etc etc, but the average Carlton punter wouldn't know who is on the board, how they got there and why they're still in the seat.

They've lost interest because the team isn't winning as often as it used to.

Rather than haphazardly point the finger at governance, disconnects, not getting a discount in the shop, fixturing (which the Club doesn't control, mind) or whatever else, a lot of these people need to admit they're not interested in CFC so long as it's not winning.

A lot of our fans are only invested in the Club when it's flying on field. Thats been proven to be the case time and time again in recent years.

When we beat Richmond on the back of Brock's pass/shot at goal, one of our better wins for that season, all you had to do was look at the crowd. Carlton's turn out was embarrassingly poor. A lot of fans didn't think we'd win, so they didn't show. That's fine, but fans need to admit that they thought we'd lose rather than cling to some other bs excuse.

"I'm not renewing because the website is bad."
"I'm not renewing because when I went down to the Club no one smiled at me."
"I'm not renewing because our recruiting department is a shambles."
"I'm not renewing because they keep letting Geoffrey Edelsten in the front door."
"I'm not renewing because the board are all mates."
"I'm not renewing because Mick hurts journalist's feelings in press conferences. He's such a nasty, old man. Mark Stevens deserves better."
"I'm not renewing because we have too many night games."
"I'm not renewing because we have too many day games."

No. You're not renewing because we won 7 and a half games last year.

You talk about reviews, don't you think with a brand new management structure that's already happened? Sam Lane's article mentioned in addition to Trigg (brand new CEO), the Club has appointed a brand new COO and is about to appoint a brand new CFO.

The reporting lines have been changed to reflect this, so obviously a review of procedure and practice has taken place.

If I'm to polish up my earlier statement about Carlton fans into something a little kinder, perhaps the club has lost the trust of a lot of supporters. Way back when supporters trusted us to win games. Now they don't. You can interpret needing to win their trust back in a number of ways; but the most important is a sense that when we run out we're a better than even chance of winning the match. Just like the old days.

That's all the vast majority care about: winning. Not fractured boards, membership packs, recruiting department structures, admin staff, development coaches. If you disagree you're as blind as you say I am.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

sorry mate... but a brand new management is just the same old one re packaged

independent review of the football club from top to bottom... what is it abut that you actually dont understand...

its kryptonite isnt it???

and dont you go telling me how to spend my money.....

im a consumer... so theyre a product..

the faster that sinks into their skulls the quicker they can realise where theyre at...

nothing to do with how many games we won directly... we won that many games because of the management...
im more interested in core problems...

whatabout you???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

when u get your off field right your on field will be fixed

just a question to you

what club wins flags but is run poorly???

and if you believe were run great... tell us why ...

i believe were a poorly run club... how about you???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

You're the rare breed of supporter thats wants to sift through the garbage, though. You do understand that, yeah?

Most don't. Most don't want to cop flak from their mates because Carlton lost again. So they distance themselves from the brand.

When the Club wins they're happy to bask in the reflected glow, when it loses they take a torch to the joint.

The vast majority of fans don't care about management structures, board numbers, board make-up etc. They just don't. The care about what the scoreboard says at the end of the match. That. is. it.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

yeah they don care.. thats why were here...

if people did care... youd think we would be here???

so if people dont care.... and allow this admin to run this club into the ground... and youre saying they only care about winning.. and we dont win..

its 21 years since our flag...
2 in 28 years...

could be 1 flag each 14 years but its now one every 21 and blowing out....
and if supporters only care about "winning".. how is that winning if thats all we care about???

you dont see the ridiculousness of all that do you????

shit clubs dont win flags... and if youre shit and you dont win... supporters dont stick
so whats that say about what we are doing??....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Makes sense as to why members are dropping off.

Doesn't as to why they failed to grow the brand as most other Victorian clubs did from 2009-2011.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

I'm not talking about whether we're well run. I'm talking about fan attitudes and the apathy a lot have towards the Carlton Football Club.

My belief, however, is that you've gotten what you've campaigned for for many a year: near complete change in management. Now, sure, theres the one fissure in your arse that remains: the board, something I trust you'll continue to tell us all about, but for the most part the other pillars you wanted changed have done so.

Sticks is gone. Swann is gone. I've lost track of whether Mick is an issue for you.

New CEO, new COO, new CFO, new president. Yeah, Mark LoGiudice might just be there on mates rates, and that annoys me in so much a guy like Ryan Trainer was compelled to leave (I'd have prefered Trainer because from all reports he's a terrific operator).

As per Sam Lane's article there's an entirely new executive set up. Change is well underway, whether it produces positive results is yet to be seen, but you'd have to be deaf, dumb and stupid to think someone like Trigg has moved in, moved people around, but neglected to change anything else.

What the last week has shown me is a seismic shift in the way the club operates internally, which will surely filter into a change in the external operations of the place. It has to. That might be better than what it was under Swann, it might be worse, but it will be change.

Isn't that what you want?

My perspective is one of lets wait and see. We have to.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

It all gets back to accountability for poor performance.

When is the board accountable ?

Who is the board accountable to ?

are u saying that people naturally gravitate towards shit???
and hat natural inertia directs you to shit. and if youre not moving towards ambracing shit theres something wrong with that person???

not too sure what youre trying to say except that people have an emotional voodoo kind of attachment to the club.

that the lub should stick a pin in us and say something like" i am carlton " or "no passengers" and like zombies verybody must give them their cash or there is soething wrong with them.. theyre not normal human beings.

actually what theyre suggesting is not normal

that people must hand over their money to an operation that is run like crap....

you do understand the fundamental principles of human behaviour dont you??

what youre sprooking is the surest way of heading towards extinction....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

"fan apathy " i think youre watching too many zombie movies

well i have news for you.....

were not zombies....

while carlton people are supposed to have the "apathy gene" as far as you and the board are concerned... the club is falling off the cliff.

so what is their plan to address this genetic flaw that exists only in our dna??

youre laughable....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Hawthorn have had a bit of a golden era during this period. I wouldn't hold my breath, though, for look what happened just 5 years after they won a flag (after competing in 8 of 9 Grand Finals)... they had basically folded. That's how quickly their fans jump off.

Geelong, too, have enjoyed a golden era (their membership is smaller than ours despite their best ever period).

Essendon* have manipulated this tired, sorry saga into an us against them campaign, playing the victim to retain support. We did this when caught red handed in 2002, recording a record membership number by saying the big bad AFL had bullied us. No one likes City Hall, do they?

It's well known that Richmond give away memberships. As in actually give them away. On a scale that dwarves every other club.

Collingwood we're a good side and their fans are, to a fault, loyal as a dog.

Our Membership would've been growing during that period, because we were an improving side playing finals. This culminated in 2011, our best season in 10 years. Then performances on field dipped and apathy drifted in. 'My loyalty and support has been betrayed, we're shit again!' cried the Carlton support. 'I knew it! I knew we were no good!' they said after the Saints beat us on a Monday night in 2012.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

Hold on, I'll just get Stephen Trigg on the line and ask.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

i am not a hypnotised zombie.....

sooooooooo.. whats the clubs remedy for me and people like me...

anything???

or am i just a lost cause and my genome cant be rescued???

thats one of the most [REDACTED] up arguments i have ever heard........its worse than robbies rubbish..

hey do realise we as carlton supporters are a crosss section of the community... and no different to any other supporters at any other clubs.

blaming it on stuff like "apathetic fans" is their way of not addressing the fundamental problem..... themselves!!!

hard to undersstand that isnt it??...( if you dont want to be honest) which theyre not...

blaming it on the mumbai telesellers at membership is ridiculous also...

the real problem is themselves not the girl answering the phones ...

excuse after excuse after excuse....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

the same stephen trigg who took adelaide as far as he could.. 2011 and has nothing more up his sleeve and got the sack???

ok .. call him and let us know...if he doesnt pick up the phone... hes pprobably got his iphone 4s going and his earplugs listening to adele's 'Rolling in the Deep.'

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

We recorded a record membership after turfing out a dipshit board with its head up arse and supporters felt a true sense of ownership.

WHA...!?!?

theyre going to learn the hard way......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

oh how this board must be ruing their rotten luck h,aving supporters with the "poor loyalty" gene...

why did it have to happen to them???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad, if anything has become plaintively clear at any stage over the past 6-7 years, its that you're beyond saving. The virus that turned you into a zombie has taken hold and cannot be reversed. Not for you, anyway. Because you're happy being a zombie. You enjoy it more than being a human.

For the rest of us there may well be an antivirus. It's being worked on just off Royal Parade.

Plenty have tried - and failed, you're right - to remedy the disease in recent years. It's left us rotting, unsure when and if salvation will come. We keep wondering when someone will tap us on the shoulder and shoot that sweet, winning, utopian cultured vaccine into our hearts, clearing our complexion, straightening our skewed jaws and giving us hope number 17 is within reach.

But to write the new crew off before they've had a chance to really give it a go is not just premature, unfair and utterly ridiculous, it's downright lazy on your part.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

So the fine, draft pick penalties and the like had nothing to do with fans collectively getting behind the club?

Yeah, that administration had to go, no doubt about it. But they were doing the same thing just the year before, in 2001. And 2000. And 1999. But fans didn't care because... yep, you know what we were doing. When the crap hit the fan they mobilised against the board; although, its fair to say the circumstances were fairly extraordinary. No one would stay in office after that.

_________________
Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good