Livo only got 1 year this year so maybe we're learning. Though I'm still not sure that was 1 year more than he deserved!

Keogh is right... especially a team as shit as we are.. we should only be giving these players 1 year deals UNLESS they're proven firsts performers.

lets look at the possible changes to our senior line up for 2006.

OUT: Camporeale, Lappin (maybe)
IN: Saddington, Murphy (maybe)

MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT!!

GET READY FOR ANOTHER 6 MONTHS OF TANK/NON-TANK DISCUSSIONS!!!! WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A YOUNG TEAM WHO ARE TRYING BUT FAILING!!!

WE HAVE A SIDE FULL OF REJECTS, ALSO-RANS, DISINTERESTED MILLIONAIRES AND A COUPLE OF HONEST KIDS.

If I was Pagan, I'd run training and give all my pre-during-and-post match talks to Waite, Thornton, Murphy, Fisher, Simpson et,al only, and tell Lance and Fev etc just to rock up for matches. Better invest all our time where it might matter.

SUPERDRAFT HERE WE COME!!!

Question for the Carlton colleagues:

I'm bloody angry, and I think our whole management, list management, recruitment, contracts and pretty much everything at the club are [REDACTED]. Who am I meant to blame? I have to pin this on someone, and I don't see Elliotts face enough on screen to blame him. So who's fault is this? Collo? Pagan? Malouf? a combination of them all???

I hope Terry Daniher brought some magic beans.

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Love Cricket? Love me

I think little Tyrants needs to take his frustration and anger out on the arch enemy down at Glenferrie today.

Knock a few Sainters over and grind them into the dirt. You should feel heaps better and the tension will float away.

If you've got any tension left you can take it out on Tommi........ as you arm wrestle him to win back the heart, mind and 'Body' of your Japanese 'friend'.

I don't like your chances though. That's Tommi'is one smooth dude.

Regards Cazzesman.

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

na he's just a flowerpot man! T'll eat him alive with self-loving!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

oh but on this Caz, do you think we'll delist any more?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Interesting perspective Cazzesman and other concerned with the salary angle...

but if we don't take a late pick + use #1 in the PSD there will be a riot, no doubt about it. Although those rioting will be the 20-30 passionate carlton fans remaining at this point in time....

I've got know idea really but you would think that if any more were to go, why haven't they gone already???

What would be the point of holding on to players you know you are going to delist.

Unless it is to see who is in the PSD, but at this stage the pickings look slim. I doubt we would take anymore than 1 in the PSD.

Is is to see how players turn up to pre-season?? We all know that those on the CFC list who have the biggest question marks are normally the best trainers and invariably turn up in peak condition and lead the pack.

If I was a betting man I would think we have seen it all.

Regards Cazzeman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

The more I read the initial post by the Tyrant the more upset I get. Cause he's right. I thought he was just one of the comedians on here (one of a small handful) but he's right. There's a good 5 players whom we know aren't going to make it. There should be more delistings to make this drafting worthwhile.

Surely #36 has to be used + PSD #1. That means 1 more to go ?

Surely our recruiters have there eye on someone out back of the draft that would be a good pre-emptive choice like Raso?

If not, what game are we playing?

Surely those guys that are on the cusp are on low contracts. Bannister was coming off a good year in year 1 but we wouldn't have signed him up for $200k would we? I think Pagan likes to manage a list like SHeedy and have some back-ups on cheap money

ie DeLuca / Bannister = Sam Hunt, Peter Cransberg...

Just for emergencies

But the difference is that we don't have the good young up & coming list to maintain that sort of comfort szone. We can all crap on about our good players but look on bigfooty and the list of 10 top youngsters and Carlton is still at the bottom. We can ramble on about not enough top experience but who are we kidding? Why do we need experience if we dont skill to exploit?

Fingers crossed that 2 of these unsaid (look at The Tyrants List) are cheap enough to cut because the bottom team needs to make cuts. has to. We'll probably already lose a few thousand members for losing Campo (not saying he should have stayed, its just that lots of fans like him - obviously not those on here!)... so we may as well change this list.

If we dont have 2-3 players of <100k to cut, and / or can't cut them, then what the hell are we doing?

I agree with Cazz's point!

Firstly we do not want to pay out so many of the players contracts eg Sporn, Wiggins, Davies, Prenda, Longmuir, Chambers etc They all add up to a large figure. After this we would then need to replace these players in this years "shallow draft". We wont be unable to delist these new youngn's after one season, we would need to develop them for at least 2 years.

If we keep these players for 1 more year we dont need to pay out there contract!, and next year we can have double the picks in the "super draft".

Pick 30 in this years draft would be the equivelant to pick 70 in next years draft.

I actually think the club wants to tank next year so we are in the box seat for next years draft! then the axe would really swing!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

fabulous:

* why contract these guys for multiple years in the first place?
* even if pick 30= pick 70, and we come last, delisting all these guys who won't be there in 2007 will only give us pick 75, 78, 81, 84 type stuff. They aren't tradeworthy so we're not going to be able to upscale. We'll bne stuck relying on Brad Fisher type selections!
* no one is saying delist them all but if Davies, Prenders etc. are on more than $100,000 what the hell are we doing?

If its pretty clear that we dont have a couple of grand free then I guess I udnerstand. but we can't keep using this excuse of having no cash! I guess 2005 is the year that McKernan, Beaumont, Campo payments stop and 2006 will have:

* Kouta's last year
* none of these payments
* reduced contract for whitnall, lappin, teague

So we can move around abit next year.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but can't you have 38 players
plus 2 veterans on your list? In our case we can have 38 + 1 vet in Kouta. With Saddington and Ohailipin our current count is at 33, so as it stands we can have picks 1,4,20,36 + 68 and a pick in the PSD. I think provided salary cap allows for the maximum then this is it how it works??
Can someone confirm or deny??

Having said all that, I wouldn't mind seeing guys like Wiggins chopped either.

I just assumed Tyrants could count?

OK, im at work so I may as well do something useful:

Walker, Russell, Livingston, Simpson, Davies, Whitnall, Lappin, French, Blackwell, Fisher, Teague, The Rat, Setanta (assuming promotion), Betts, McGrath, Longmuir (yuk), Chambers, Hartlett, Stevens, Fev, DeLuca, Bryan, Prendergast, Scotland, Waite, Bannister, Thornton, Wiggins, Houlihan, Raso, Sporn, AB, Kouta, Carrazzo + SADDINGTON

rookies: Aisake, Batson, Smith

OK - 35 players and 3 rookies. 34 players if Camporeale moves on.

Pretty sure that gives us at least 1, 4,20, 36 + PSD1?

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Pass on Pick 36? I couldn't see that happening. With the eveness of the draft beyond pick 20, a player we rate in the early twenties could easily still be available at pick 36, also some key defensive players could also still be available. I think we're waiting on the invariables of the Lappin contract and what is available at PSD Pick 1. No one has mentioned it, but keeping players on could also be about providing stability amongst our young playing group - there's a lot of guys with great attitudes on the list, they just haven't stepped up as far as proving their ability at AFL level.

Athorn
i understand where you are heading, i agree we must use pick 36. I know i would rather pass on #1 PSD pick if would get McLaren, and use the spot on #36.

However we cannot just turnover half of our team in 1 year. We have gotten rid of the main hacks and work still has to be done. If we get rid of all our hacks this year, the majority ofour late pick youngsters will be hacks also.

Pagan knows that next years draft is better and wants a spread of youth over a few years. I think he has told Davies, Longmuir, Chambers, Wiggins, Sporn it is there last chance. Im happy to give them another chance. We will prob keep 1 or 2 of them, but then we have more choices in a better draft, and we would of saved money.

Money can be used as an excuse if we are saving for the better future of the CFC!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Unless my maths is [REDACTED], or we're doing something different with Kouta's vet status, we have 4 vacant spots, NOT assuming Lappin leaves and Campo does. That means picks 1,4,20 and either (not both) of pick 36 or PSD pick 1. That means we either lose Lappin or have to exclude either pick 36 or PSD pick 1.... or we delist more dropkicks.

hey! blame Cammo... he's the one who alerted me to this problem!!!!

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Love Cricket? Love me

I agree with everybody.............

except Mr Cee........i'm not that smooth..........!

ahhhhh what the hey.......yeah i'm pretty smooth........
in my PANTS..........!

nahhh.....i got no idea either.........!


kindest regards tommi





and really guys.......i'm glad you do all this worrying
for me......it leaves more space in my head for other stuff.......!


and for this.....i thank you all.........!

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

You are more than a comedian. apparently you are also a shocking coach.

But anyway, Kouta is outside of the 38 as a vet, if nominated. With 1 vet we can also play a nominated rookie in 2006, hopefully smithy.

35 players above LESS Camporeale The Rat=34

34 - 5 picks remaining? 1,4,20,36, PSD 1
3 rookies - 2 rookie slots remaining as kouta is a nominated veteran (assumed). One can be nominated to play.

This gives us a list of 44 comprising 38 players, 1 vet and 5 rookies.

Pleming nowhere in sight.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

What's with the nominated rookie?

A rookie has to be elevated to the senior list to play.
Until one is elevated, they are all rookie listed players.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

No, thats not right. Some clubs complained a few years ago that without their 2 veterans they have access to fewer players. as a result, clubs with less than 2 vets could nominate a rookie who would be available for senior selection.

Can someone confirm?

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

if we weren't going to use pick 36, surely we would have bundled it with pick 20 and tried to get a first round pick, like 20 + 36 for 14 or something in that order.