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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
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Blue Vain wrote:
padre wrote:
club29 wrote:
padre wrote:
BIRDTOWN wrote:
Positives but as always filled with our skill errors. Very glad to see the boys back up for Murph.

Ellard, thanks for your gutsy efforts but that's goodbye.

No dull feeling on the loss. Happy to see the effort by all. At the end of the day we may need the higher draft pick to improve our skills more than the 4pts this year.

So we stop making the skill errors and we beat freo, a potential premier. Hmmmm doesnt sound like we are too far awy


Freo are well off the boil at the moment and on top of that were men down. I wouldn't read too much into last night.

Our structure looked good and we didn't kick to many contests until the last. Lots of chip chip which is the way to go with teams that defend space well.
Still the errors were shocking and we didn't get much from a large number of players.
I liked the effort.

Look we SHOULD have won. We were unlucky. I dont buy your analysis of freo.
Sure they had injuries...we didnt? Hawks have . Other sides have. Its a factor but does not define the side. Freo off the boil? How do we know whether it's that or we played well?


You don't buy his analysis that Freo are off the boil?
Perhaps the fact they lost to the bottom team in their last outing by 10 goals may have given you a hint?



Its not a matter of buying anything. Were we off the boil against melbourne? Against GWS? Against brisbane? There was no one making excuses for us then. We were not up to , had to sack the coach , and most of the players. We had injuries too at the time.. That wasnt relevant. We lost players early from memory as well. Its a matter of beating who you are up against.
Are we to say that freo are gone if we happened to beat them? No, instead we realise that teams cant be on every week, that the competition is so even now that there is little difference. But there is mentally.
A few less skill errors and we win. You could say that about 3-4 games this year. If we had won those we are about 6th. As i have said before, we are not that far away. Replace wood with kreuzer. Put a fit walker back in instead of ellard. As others have said, Everitt could well have nullified fyfe. Then there us menzel. 4 very handy additions. At the moment we certainly dont have a world beating list, but it is not terrible, and it does not deserve the pillorying and the disdain that some have given it by demanding a complete rebuild.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:06 am 
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Craig Bradley
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The old boys were great ( Judd,Simmo ) ,but it is a big worry that the young blokes didnt stand up (Levi,Tommy,Hairdoo )...........................Big plus for mine,as The Moshpit h as already stated is we aint coppin' shit.If ya go Murph,ya go all of us.Even Murphy himself dished out a bit of dirt.Great stuff Murph and may it continue.For all those wanting to unload Robbo i just wish we had two of him.His use of the pill has improved greatly for mine.Reckon we are a top CHF and an accumulating midfielder away from being a contender for a top four spot.You can queary our list,but i reckon you can queary everyone's list.They all have holes in 'em just like us.Bit of smart tweakin' and we are right back in the comp.But i reckon we have got to be careful we dont load up on good ordinary players.We need a touch of brilliance.
P.S.....................reckon it is a must we kepp Judd going,as even on one leg he is so far our best player it dont matter.Slip him onto starvation corner ALA Diesel and i reckon he would be gold.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:29 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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woof wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
The number one, absolute best thing about tonight, which we haven't seen for AT LEAST A DECADE was guys getting stuck into Crowley (and vigorously too), including Judd, Carazzo, Gibbs, Wood, and Murphy himself.


My highlight for the night.
We played as a team and the players got Crowley at every opportunity they could.
Any team can do this but we did it without having a detrimental impact on our own game, not all teams can do that.


One of the highlights from the last 10 years. Only time I can remember us flying the flag even close to that was Judd's first game against the Eagles. I actually don't mind Crowley that much. If he was playing that role for your club, you'd love him, but it was great to see both teammates and Murph himself giving it to him.

Malthouse is starting to get these blokes playing as a team, and playing some good defensive footy.

Feel bad for Cameron Wood. Will be the focus of a lot of people, but why was Neale standing on his own 30m out anyway?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:35 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Woods last minute blunder was one of many that cost us the win but while his effort and willingness to compete remains high I'd prefer him to 206 at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Rexy wrote:
Woods last minute blunder was one of many that cost us the win but while his effort and willingness to compete remains high I'd prefer him to 206 at the moment.


..touhy's selfishness and jamo's short steps cost us that match..

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Woods last minute blunder was one of many that cost us the win but while his effort and willingness to compete remains high I'd prefer him to 206 at the moment.


..touhy's selfishness and jamo's short steps cost us that match..


Jamisons effort on the hbf against fyfe that led to their second last goal was appalling

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blueboy74 wrote:
billc3 wrote:
The Vet wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
The number one, absolute best thing about tonight, which we haven't seen for AT LEAST A DECADE was guys getting stuck into Crowley (and vigorously too), including Judd, Carazzo, Gibbs, Wood, and Murphy himself.

I've been waiting for this and been saying until that happens we're going nowhere.



This.

I felt that we stood up for the captain for the first time. Team did it. It was very good to watch and Crowley did nit like it at all.

And double this!

(BTW, I recall a Carlton rcruiter saying, when asked why we didn't take Talia, as everyone had us taking him, that the answer was that we were going to ...but couldn't believe Lucas was still available! Someone with better search skills than me can probably find it.)

I also am glad to see that one touch possession soccer strategies that will never work in AFL and cannot be executed by Carlton is working well in AFL and being executed by the Blues....

All in all there's been positives...mid way through the season I couldn't see what we were aiming to do.


Will probably derail the thread, but this is what ericpascoe (was known as BigFooty's most reliable Carlton poster) had to say re drafting Talia/Lucas.

"And one last bit I forgot - for all you Talia/Panos/Carlisle fans - pick 12, Wayne Hughes view is we go best available".

"I dont believe there is any likelihood of us taking Talia or Black in the draft. The MC dont reckon they are bad players but not top 12. Completely opposed to "picking for type" with early picks and cite Walsh, Thorpe, Grant etc as examples of picks gone wrong when clubs take talls for the sake of taking talls. If Butcher is still there at 12, I think we will take him. Otherwise, expect to see Lucas, Melksham or McMillan-Pittard at Carlton in a couple of weeks".

"I don't think it matters. (re: a club taking Talia before us). If he is gone he is gone. And if he is available, I'm still 99% sure we won't take him. He is not in our top 12, so on a best available basis, he won't be a Blue. We will go mid unless Butcher slides (which he won't)".

Thanks BB74. Appreciate that...yep I didn't want to derail the thread either.....good to know we always thought Talia was sh!t :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blueboy74 wrote:
billc3 wrote:
The Vet wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
The number one, absolute best thing about tonight, which we haven't seen for AT LEAST A DECADE was guys getting stuck into Crowley (and vigorously too), including Judd, Carazzo, Gibbs, Wood, and Murphy himself.

I've been waiting for this and been saying until that happens we're going nowhere.



This.

I felt that we stood up for the captain for the first time. Team did it. It was very good to watch and Crowley did nit like it at all.

And double this!

(BTW, I recall a Carlton rcruiter saying, when asked why we didn't take Talia, as everyone had us taking him, that the answer was that we were going to ...but couldn't believe Lucas was still available! Someone with better search skills than me can probably find it.)

I also am glad to see that one touch possession soccer strategies that will never work in AFL and cannot be executed by Carlton is working well in AFL and being executed by the Blues....

All in all there's been positives...mid way through the season I couldn't see what we were aiming to do.


Will probably derail the thread, but this is what ericpascoe (was known as BigFooty's most reliable Carlton poster) had to say re drafting Talia/Lucas.

"And one last bit I forgot - for all you Talia/Panos/Carlisle fans - pick 12, Wayne Hughes view is we go best available".

"I dont believe there is any likelihood of us taking Talia or Black in the draft. The MC dont reckon they are bad players but not top 12. Completely opposed to "picking for type" with early picks and cite Walsh, Thorpe, Grant etc as examples of picks gone wrong when clubs take talls for the sake of taking talls. If Butcher is still there at 12, I think we will take him. Otherwise, expect to see Lucas, Melksham or McMillan-Pittard at Carlton in a couple of weeks".

"I don't think it matters. (re: a club taking Talia before us). If he is gone he is gone. And if he is available, I'm still 99% sure we won't take him. He is not in our top 12, so on a best available basis, he won't be a Blue. We will go mid unless Butcher slides (which he won't)".

Thanks BB74. Appreciate that...yep I didn't want to derail the thread either.....good to know we always thought Talia was sh!t :grin:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:51 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
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robertbb wrote:
"We all wish that this performance augers well for next year and beyond however in reality any natural improvement in the likes of Menzel, Cripps, Docherty, Graham etc will probably be offset by the decline in Judd, Waite and Simpson who were all good for us last night."

I agree. I'd also add Johnson to that list - while we havn't seen much from him I think he'll turn into a reliable *grunt* player for us, he's certainly not afraid to tackle which is a good start. But while we have some promising youngsters (which is more than we've had for a while), our best (Judd, Simpson, Waite when he's on) are in their twilight. Even if we recruit well at the draft and bring in a player or two from other clubs, we're still in for some pain over the next few years.

And let's not forget, Freo are clearly off the boil for some reason. St Kilda smashed them last round, and despite the fact that they were down Pavlich and Mzungu we couldn't win despite dominating general play from 10 minutes in to 10 minutes to go.

I'll take the loss for a higher pick, and on that I really like the look of Durdin.





I agree the natural decline in judd and simpson waite, will barely be offset by one years improvement in the kids. 4 years before we are top 4


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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If the players were playing for Mick, we would have won!!

No excuses for that loss, not even:
* having Menzel, Buckley, Kruezer, Walker, Robinson, Everitt and a clear headed Garlett out of that team
* carrying list cloggers in Ellard, Carazzo, Maclean
* quiet nights by Henderson, Waite and Casboult
* the most dysfunctional ruck division in the AFL (Warnock, Kruezer and Wood are all B grade ruck at best)
* having probably worst recruiting of any AFL team over the last decade
* a dinosaur as coach
* playing the reigning runners up on their own turf on the rebound after they were embarrassed by the Saints

Roos, Hinkley et al would've got us over the line. Take that to the bank

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:47 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17948
padre wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
padre wrote:
club29 wrote:
padre wrote:
So we stop making the skill errors and we beat freo, a potential premier. Hmmmm doesnt sound like we are too far awy


Freo are well off the boil at the moment and on top of that were men down. I wouldn't read too much into last night.

Our structure looked good and we didn't kick to many contests until the last. Lots of chip chip which is the way to go with teams that defend space well.
Still the errors were shocking and we didn't get much from a large number of players.
I liked the effort.

Look we SHOULD have won. We were unlucky. I dont buy your analysis of freo.
Sure they had injuries...we didnt? Hawks have . Other sides have. Its a factor but does not define the side. Freo off the boil? How do we know whether it's that or we played well?


You don't buy his analysis that Freo are off the boil?
Perhaps the fact they lost to the bottom team in their last outing by 10 goals may have given you a hint?



Its not a matter of buying anything. Were we off the boil against melbourne? Against GWS? Against brisbane? There was no one making excuses for us then. We were not up to , had to sack the coach , and most of the players. We had injuries too at the time.. That wasnt relevant. We lost players early from memory as well. Its a matter of beating who you are up against.
Are we to say that freo are gone if we happened to beat them? No, instead we realise that teams cant be on every week, that the competition is so even now that there is little difference. But there is mentally.
A few less skill errors and we win. You could say that about 3-4 games this year. If we had won those we are about 6th. As i have said before, we are not that far away. Replace wood with kreuzer. Put a fit walker back in instead of ellard. As others have said, Everitt could well have nullified fyfe. Then there us menzel. 4 very handy additions. At the moment we certainly dont have a world beating list, but it is not terrible, and it does not deserve the pillorying and the disdain that some have given it by demanding a complete rebuild.


Gee you can waffle on with a load of unrelated shit. Stick to the point.
I didn't say sack the players when we lost. I didn't say sack the coach. I'm not bagging the team for Losing on Thursday. In fact I think it was an admirable effort.
I just made a point that Freo had lost to the bottom side in their last game by 10 goals. If that doesn't confirm Club29s view that they're off the boil, I don't know what does.
Carrying on about our previous games or Everitt or Kreuzer or anyone else is totally irrelevant to my post.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:49 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Confidence is a wonderful thing, teams that have it look unbeatable and those who don't look like no-one can hit the side of a barn.

Once we start winning some of these close ones and the belief comes, then believe me the skills WILL improve.

I don't agree with Leigh Matthews on alot of things, but I do in this one - teams are rarely as good as you think they are and conversely teams are rarely as bad as you think they are.

I think that once it starts to click, then the improvement will be rapid.

Do I think that we can make top 4 next year, I doubt it, but I do think that we can get close


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Still gutted.

I know, I know in the great scheme of things it doesn't really matter. But haven't been able to stop replaying all the major mistakes in my head.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:26 am 
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Harry Vallence
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99prelim wrote:
If the players were playing for Mick, we would have won!!

No excuses for that loss, not even:
* having Menzel, Buckley, Kruezer, Walker, Robinson, Everitt and a clear headed Garlett out of that team
* carrying list cloggers in Ellard, Carazzo, Maclean
* quiet nights by Henderson, Waite and Casboult
* the most dysfunctional ruck division in the AFL (Warnock, Kruezer and Wood are all B grade ruck at best)
* having probably worst recruiting of any AFL team over the last decade
* a dinosaur as coach
* playing the reigning runners up on their own turf on the rebound after they were embarrassed by the Saints

Roos, Hinkley et al would've got us over the line. Take that to the bank


This post is fair dinkum isn't it?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:09 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
SnickerS wrote:
99prelim wrote:
If the players were playing for Mick, we would have won!!

No excuses for that loss, not even:
* having Menzel, Buckley, Kruezer, Walker, Robinson, Everitt and a clear headed Garlett out of that team
* carrying list cloggers in Ellard, Carazzo, Maclean
* quiet nights by Henderson, Waite and Casboult
* the most dysfunctional ruck division in the AFL (Warnock, Kruezer and Wood are all B grade ruck at best)
* having probably worst recruiting of any AFL team over the last decade
* a dinosaur as coach
* playing the reigning runners up on their own turf on the rebound after they were embarrassed by the Saints

Roos, Hinkley et al would've got us over the line. Take that to the bank


This post is fair dinkum isn't it?


I think he's making a joke.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:11 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6902
SnickerS wrote:
99prelim wrote:
If the players were playing for Mick, we would have won!!

No excuses for that loss, not even:
* having Menzel, Buckley, Kruezer, Walker, Robinson, Everitt and a clear headed Garlett out of that team
* carrying list cloggers in Ellard, Carazzo, Maclean
* quiet nights by Henderson, Waite and Casboult
* the most dysfunctional ruck division in the AFL (Warnock, Kruezer and Wood are all B grade ruck at best)
* having probably worst recruiting of any AFL team over the last decade
* a dinosaur as coach
* playing the reigning runners up on their own turf on the rebound after they were embarrassed by the Saints

Roos, Hinkley et al would've got us over the line. Take that to the bank


This post is fair dinkum isn't it?



if it is, 99prelim needs a snickers


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:42 am 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 934
Blue Vain wrote:
padre wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
padre wrote:
club29 wrote:
[quote="padre"]So we stop making the skill errors and we beat freo, a potential premier. Hmmmm doesnt sound like we are too far awy


Freo are well off the boil at the moment and on top of that were men down. I wouldn't read too much into last night.

Our structure looked good and we didn't kick to many contests until the last. Lots of chip chip which is the way to go with teams that defend space well.
Still the errors were shocking and we didn't get much from a large number of players.
I liked the effort.

Look we SHOULD have won. We were unlucky. I dont buy your analysis of freo.
Sure they had injuries...we didnt? Hawks have . Other sides have. Its a factor but does not define the side. Freo off the boil? How do we know whether it's that or we played well?


You don't buy his analysis that Freo are off the boil?
Perhaps the fact they lost to the bottom team in their last outing by 10 goals may have given you a hint?



Its not a matter of buying anything. Were we off the boil against melbourne? Against GWS? Against brisbane? There was no one making excuses for us then. We were not up to , had to sack the coach , and most of the players. We had injuries too at the time.. That wasnt relevant. We lost players early from memory as well. Its a matter of beating who you are up against.
Are we to say that freo are gone if we happened to beat them? No, instead we realise that teams cant be on every week, that the competition is so even now that there is little difference. But there is mentally.
A few less skill errors and we win. You could say that about 3-4 games this year. If we had won those we are about 6th. As i have said before, we are not that far away. Replace wood with kreuzer. Put a fit walker back in instead of ellard. As others have said, Everitt could well have nullified fyfe. Then there us menzel. 4 very handy additions. At the moment we certainly dont have a world beating list, but it is not terrible, and it does not deserve the pillorying and the disdain that some have given it by demanding a complete rebuild.


Gee you can waffle on with a load of unrelated shit. Stick to the point.
I didn't say sack the players when we lost. I didn't say sack the coach. I'm not bagging the team for Losing on Thursday. In fact I think it was an admirable effort.
I just made a point that Freo had lost to the bottom side in their last game by 10 goals. If that doesn't confirm Club29s view that they're off the boil, I don't know what does.
Carrying on about our previous games or Everitt or Kreuzer or anyone else is totally irrelevant to my post.[/quote]

Many on here did want to sack players though, your position at the time was not in my mind in my last post as i really dont care what individuals think really, its more the general concensus that i was pointing to.
All that losing to the saints by 10 goals proves is that they were "off the boil" against the saints.
As to me waffling in, I reserve the right to put anything in my post whether you approve or not. I felt it was relevant .


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:56 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
blueboy 74 wrote:
Will probably derail the thread, but this is what ericpascoe (was known as BigFooty's most reliable Carlton poster) had to say re drafting Talia/Lucas.

"And one last bit I forgot - for all you Talia/Panos/Carlisle fans - pick 12, Wayne Hughes view is we go best available".

"I dont believe there is any likelihood of us taking Talia or Black in the draft. The MC dont reckon they are bad players but not top 12. Completely opposed to "picking for type" with early picks and cite Walsh, Thorpe, Grant etc as examples of picks gone wrong when clubs take talls for the sake of taking talls. If Butcher is still there at 12, I think we will take him. Otherwise, expect to see Lucas, Melksham or McMillan-Pittard at Carlton in a couple of weeks".

"I don't think it matters. (re: a club taking Talia before us). If he is gone he is gone. And if he is available, I'm still 99% sure we won't take him. He is not in our top 12, so on a best available basis, he won't be a Blue. We will go mid unless Butcher slides (which he won't)".


The disappointing thing is that the draft was so strong from our picks at 11 and 12 and #43 when we had our next pick, if we put all the names in a hat and picked blindfolded, we probably would have done better Its all very well to talk about retrospective recruiting, but there are also good choices and bad choices and they are the difference between finals footy and 14th. Check the draft you think it would be hard to get not get a 200 gamer with #11 and #12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:07 am 
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Harry Vallence

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